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Anyone else considering not cruising/traveling for the time being? ?

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39 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

From what I can see from reading online, the mortality rate from corona thus far is similar to flu and hits the same segments of the population the worst - immunocompromised, pre-existing respiratory conditions, elderly, etc.

 

 

 

That's interesting. I wasn't aware that the common flu had a mortality rate of 2%? Good thing I had the flu vaccination!

 

 

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3 hours ago, VMax1700 said:

As you are in Italy, could I ask you how the atmosphere is?  From Italian media can you tell if citizens are obeying the new regulations.

We were just about to book a cruise departing Venice on May 10th, but now are hesitating until we know if we will be able to access and enjoy Venice and if the subsequent ports will allow pax who have transited Venice.

 

Well, as mentioned I am not exactly at "ground zero" so I can only say what I have seen on local coverage -- which is that they are taking it quite seriously. Towns in the "zone" look empty -- no one out and about. Schools are closed as are all tourist sites and many other places. Any public gatherings are canceled. 

 

The overall number is still not large but obviously it is concerning for Italians and I'm sure they have watched what has happened in China and is happening in Korea and want to contain the virus if at all possible.

 

I couldn't begin to make an assessment as to whether a May 10th cruise could be impacted. If it were me (and if I were retired and didn't have to worry about a long quarantine period or a cancellation that wreaks havoc on requested time off work) I'd probably book it, but there are a lot of unknowns and everybody has a different tolerance for risk.

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We're booked on the May 10th Venice round trip. There's been a huge price drop and it's after final payment, but I called and got some nice perks. I'll be disappointed if the cruise gets cancelled.

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1 hour ago, VMax1700 said:

Thanks for your insight,

@cruisemom42

 

I have just read that RCI will deny boarding on any cruise to anyone who has traveled through Lombardy and Veneto in the past 15 days.

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ships/itinerary-updates

 

Which means, in effect, you cannot board an RCI ship in Venice (which is in Veneto) since you are in Veneto when you attempt to board.

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Update for Feb 24th.

 

China and countries like Singapore seem to be stabilizing. The problem has migrated to South Korea (977 confirmed cases), Northern Italy (288 confirmed cases) and Iran (16 confirmed deaths).

 

Almost all of the new infections in South Korea and Northern Italy are local. So, quarantines are in place. No one knows how far the disease has spread. Only time will tell.

 

Iran is a problematic third world country. With 16 deaths and only 95 reported cases, it is likely that the vast majority of infections have not been identified, and some patients are still infecting others.

 

With a statistical death rate of 2%, the 16 deaths imply an infection of 800 persons. Therefore, 700 have not been identified. This is an issue common to all third world countries. Only patients in critical condition are showing up at the hospital. The rest are not being quarantined and treated.

 

BTW, even in advanced countries, local infections do not disappear after a few weeks. In Japan, the number of infections continue to grow slowly with local infections.

 

This pattern of persistent  infections is a problem for cruise passengers. The more countries you visit, the greater the chance that you will land at a country with a resurgent infection.

 

 

 

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Booked for Holland America Nieuw Amsterdam Med cruise beginning Barcelona April 28.  If it still is a go with HAL it is a go for me!!

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The cruise company will have to cancel a port once a travel alert etc has been declared (or is likely). The imposition of a travel alert will trigger the exclusion in their (and your) insurance coverage.

 

From my trip interruption policy with TD Insurance in Canada...

 

“SECTION 8 – WHAT YOUR INSURANCE DOES NOT COVER – EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS

 

... Travel Advisories  Any Medical Emergency Condition You suffer or contract in a specific country, region or city for which Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Canada (DFATD), has issued a formal travel warning, before Your Effective Date, advising Canadians to avoid all or non-essential travel to that specific country, region or city.

 Note: In this exclusion, "Medical Emergency Condition” is limited to the reason for which the formal Travel Warning was issued and includes complications arising from such Medical Emergency Condition.”

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, VMax1700 said:

Thanks for your insight,

@cruisemom42

 

I have just read that RCI will deny boarding on any cruise to anyone who has traveled through Lombardy and Veneto in the past 15 days.

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruise-ships/itinerary-updates

 

 

Wow. I think this is HUGE news. And mandatory screenings for anyone traveling in Italy (aside from Lombardy and Veneto regions) in the past 15 days. WOW.

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We will be in Southern Europe in mid Sept to early Nov.  

 

We will consider a late booking Med cruise if the CV issue is in hand in Italy and if the price for a verandah cabin is attractive.

Edited by iancal

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On 2/24/2020 at 4:26 PM, kazu said:

 

IF the numbers can be trusted (and the suspicion is that there are more cases than reported which lowers the ratio) the death percentage from covid-19 is much higher than it is with the flu and definitely with Noro viruses which while not pleasant, are not usually life threatening.

 

 

I saw this mortality rate statistics on a Medical Related report on the new Cornavirus. The numbers may not be exactly as I remember, but the ratio shows some interesting info. 

 

Flu (Influzena) 1.9%

SARS - 9.2%

MERS - 35%

COVID-19 - 2.4% (Of course this is only so far and is a moving target)

 

Another fact was that the Covid-19 has already infected 10x times the number of folks who contracted SARS and 35x the number for MERS. So it seems that Covid-19 is transmitted between people much easier/faster than the others. I don't think we've hit the high water mark for this outbreak as yet. While things seem to be getting under control in China, we have new hot-spots appearing around the world which don't yet seem to be contained. 

 

The following is a link to an article that I think was the basis for the news report I saw. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by drowelf
Add article link.

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On 2/25/2020 at 11:01 AM, HappyInVan said:

Iran is a problematic third world country. With 16 deaths and only 95 reported cases, it is likely that the vast majority of infections have not been identified, and some patients are still infecting others.

 

Did you see Iran's Deputy Health Minister at this press event? He has now tested positive himself 😟

 

In Iran, the head of the country’s counter-coronavirus task force has contracted the virus, highlighting the challenges authorities are facing to contain its spread. A day prior to testing positive with the virus, Iraj Harirchi, the task force director, was seen sweating and coughing at a press conference.

 

https://time.com/5789631/coronavirus-covid-19-global-cases/

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23 minutes ago, drowelf said:

Flu (Influzena) 1.9%

SARS - 9.2%

MERS - 35%

COVID-19 - 2.4% (Of course this is only so far and is a moving target)

 

I see where COVID-19 is now being called SARS-CoV-2.

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On 2/21/2020 at 3:18 PM, shank63 said:

We are booked on an Eastern Med cruise in mid June, Athens to Venice with ports of call in Turkey and others.  We have no intentions of canceling and final payment is getting close.  We do follow hygienic procedures closely on the ship as well as airplanes and hope for the best.

Our final payment is due March 21 and the changing conditions are forcing us to cancel.  I will wait until just before the payment date to make it official.

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42 minutes ago, drowelf said:

I saw this mortality rate statistics on a Medical Related report on the new Cornavirus. The numbers may not be exactly as I remember, but the ratio shows some interesting info. 

 

Flu (Influzena) 1.9%

SARS - 9.2%

MERS - 35%

COVID-19 - 2.4% (Of course this is only so far and is a moving target)

 

 

 

 

That's interesting. I glanced over the article and I didn't see the 1.9% number.

 

Perhaps, this might help. From the article from wikipedia on the general subject of influenza...

 

"Influenza spreads around the world in yearly outbreaks, resulting in about three to five million cases of severe illness and about 290,000 to 650,000 deaths.[1][4] About 20% of unvaccinated children and 10% of unvaccinated adults are infected each year."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza

 

Seems that there are many kinds of influenza. The common flu propagates itself every winter. Assuming an adult unvaccinated population of 5 billion, there are 3 to 5 million severe cases. With 290k to 650k deaths, can you calculate the mortality rate?

 

 

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On 2/25/2020 at 12:28 PM, CruiseMGM said:

Wow. I think this is HUGE news. And mandatory screenings for anyone traveling in Italy (aside from Lombardy and Veneto regions) in the past 15 days. WOW.

 

But, also boarding denial if you have come in six feet contact...

 

From RCCL (in pertinent part):

Regardless of nationality, we will deny boarding to:

b. Any guest who has come in contact with anyone with 15-day prior travel to mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Iran, South Korea, and the Italian regions of Lombardy and Veneto. The CDC characterizes contact with an individual as coming within six feet (2M) of a person.

It might be difficult (impossible?) to fly into Italy or to transit through any Italian airport or city and be assured you hadn't come within six feet of another person who had traveled in Lombardy or Veneto the prior 15 days.

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40 minutes ago, SeaHunt said:

 

Did you see Iran's Deputy Health Minister at this press event? He has now tested positive himself 😟

 

 

 

 

Happens. Looks like he didn't adequately follow the protocols.

 

There's bound to be more of these outbreaks. Third world countries are problematic because they lack the medical facilities for quick testing. The general population don't understand the nature of the problem and the need for quarantines.

 

Try explaining to a tribesman why he should go with the government officials, instead of remaining with his kin.

 

We've to wait and see how far it spreads. Pakistan and India have a combined population of 1.5 billion. Turkey is Iran's neighbour to the west. And, on the border of Eastern Europe. Should the virus become infectious to birds and animals, then Europe is just a hop away. 

 

Is this scary enough for you? Heck, I think the Dow should be down 25%.

 

We should let the medical professionals do their job. Quarantines will be imposed as needed. Life will go on. Should you be travelling? That's entirely up to you.

 

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23 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

From the article from wikipedia on the general subject of influenza...

 

I don’t consider Wikipedia the most reliable of resources.  There are many others that are more trustworthy.

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3 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

I don’t consider Wikipedia the most reliable of resources.  There are many others that are more trustworthy.

 

All the different sources have slightly different figures and interpretations.  I doubt that anyone really knows.  To me, the most relevant information was just observing all the dramatic steps taken in China to stop this disease.  Seems pretty clear that it's not a common flu bug.

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Hi OP here. So interesting all the opinions. We did ended up cancelling our March 8 trip to Mexico through LAX. No fear of getting there but can't risk getting caught up if there is any chance of a potential quarantine or lengthy time delay on the way home if things get worse or god forbid we get colds (cruise or land we usually come home with one no matter how careful we are!) LAX customs/immigration on the way back is no fun on a good day so for this one we are passing. Without work schedules, pets etc. we would most likely proceed. We have CFAR that will cover the cancellation.  Disappointed but also know it's an easy reschedule when this blows over 🙂  

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45 minutes ago, HAL Sailer said:

 

But, also boarding denial if you have come in six feet contact...

 

From RCCL (in pertinent part):

Regardless of nationality, we will deny boarding to:

b. Any guest who has come in contact with anyone with 15-day prior travel to mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Iran, South Korea, and the Italian regions of Lombardy and Veneto. The CDC characterizes contact with an individual as coming within six feet (2M) of a person.

It might be difficult (impossible?) to fly into Italy or to transit through any Italian airport or city and be assured you hadn't come within six feet of another person who had traveled in Lombardy or Veneto the prior 15 days.

 

Yes, exactly. And what about all the sailings that start in Venice (Veneto region)? How could you even get there without being in the Veneto region? I wish I had a crystal ball and could see a year in to the future to see how things are. Currently, our China (land tour) in October is pretty much off the books but we're hoping we can get something back from the flights we bought independently. And our Milan trip in June (also on land, DIY travel) looks like it might be off the books, too. Still hopeful we can do our Norway cruise in August (r/t Amsterdam, on the Veendam). Best wishes and smooth sailing to all.

Edited by CruiseMGM
glaring spelling error!

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3 hours ago, drowelf said:

I saw this mortality rate statistics on a Medical Related report on the new Cornavirus. The numbers may not be exactly as I remember, but the ratio shows some interesting info. 

 

Flu (Influzena) 1.9%

SARS - 9.2%

MERS - 35%

COVID-19 - 2.4% (Of course this is only so far and is a moving target)

 

Another fact was that the Covid-19 has already infected 10x times the number of folks who contracted SARS and 35x the number for MERS. So it seems that Covid-19 is transmitted between people much easier/faster than the others. I don't think we've hit the high water mark for this outbreak as yet. While things seem to be getting under control in China, we have new hot-spots appearing around the world which don't yet seem to be contained. 

 

The following is a link to an article that I think was the basis for the news report I saw. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A bit off when it comes to influenza,  It is not in the 1% range, but more in the .1%  an order of magnitude lower during your normal year.

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4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

For some inexplicable reason, the MSC MERAVIGLIA (5,700 pax) is being bounced around the Caribbean...

 

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2737772-good-news-meragivilia-accepted-in-cozumel/

 

 

 

Because a crew member had been placed into isolation for exhibiting flu- like symptoms, after traveling to a country of interest in the Coronavirus outbreak.

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