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Gratuity distribution??


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17 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

The other main exception you don't mention  is the bar staff. The "automatic" tip on drinks is split between the bartender (I have heard 9 or 10%) the waiter (4 or 5%) and the house (1%) for a "employee benefit fund". 

 

What happens to the money in my end of cruise envelope that I give to a bartender?  Is that amount divided among all the staff of that Lounge?  Is that amount pooled with gratuities received by staff in other Lounges/bars and divided among all of the beverage staff?

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18 minutes ago, HamOp said:

So, answer me this.  You're walking along and see the hardworking crew member polishing the rails and decide to thank him with a $5.  He doesn't know you or your cabin number.  How does he know if you removed the HSC or not?  Same goes for the workers in the lido. 

 

The names of those who have removed the HSC are posted in the crew area so your waiters and room Stewards know that they may not receive tips from you.  Giving a random $5 in cash to a maintenance worker who does not recognise you as an HSC withdrawer, should not be an issue. 

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5 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Well, believe it or not....

They do know who you are.  If not, they can find out since the pics that go with your key card are readily available.  And, they do know who removed HSC since there is a list.

When I was on the Rotterdam, I enjoyed the service in the retreat.  They knew who I was and when I tipped the great guy who took such superb care of us extra, he beamed and said thank you.

 

The logistics aren’t that important IMO.  The crew know if you removed HSC they can’t keep the money.  They are not about to risk their jobs over $5.  

No argument about not keeping the money if HSC removed.  But I just don't see that crew member looking through 2500 photos to find out who you are - if he even has access to that database.

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11 minutes ago, HamOp said:

No argument about not keeping the money if HSC removed.  But I just don't see that crew member looking through 2500 photos to find out who you are - if he even has access to that database.

 

I only know of 2 HAL ships that hold that many passengers 😉 

A number of them hold nearly half that many passengers still 😉 

 

In any case, HAL does have it figured out as do the crew.  It’s not really our concern - especially if we keep the HSC in place. 😉 

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1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

What happens to the money in my end of cruise envelope that I give to a bartender?  Is that amount divided among all the staff of that Lounge?  Is that amount pooled with gratuities received by staff in other Lounges/bars and divided among all of the beverage staff?

I don't have an answer to that question. I know, given the formula I gave, the bar tip money is pooled, so if a given bar steward is working a quiet lounge, they don't get stiffed on tips, as it is a large portion of what they make. So there is no friction on assignments.

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3 hours ago, Shmoo here said:

I believe the person receiving such tips are required to turn them in, to confirm the status of the HSC before being allowed to keep such tips.

No, they get a list of who has removed the HSC. If you're not on the list they pocket the money.

1 hour ago, HamOp said:

decide to thank him with a $5.  He doesn't know you or your cabin number.  How does he know if you removed the HSC or not?  Same goes for the workers in the lido. 

I think the rule only applies to the people who are likely to get substantial tips, like cabin stewards and MDR waiters, not the small random tips given anonymously.

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Just calculating numbers.  Assume the Maasdam sails full with 1,258 passengers, and a crew of 558,  365 days a year. Assuming each passenger pays the hotel service charge of $15, the total would be $18,870 per day, or $6,887,550 per year.  Each crew member would then receive $12,343 per year.  Now how many cruise members participate is totally unknown.  Some are bar staff, some engine room personnel, and some are contract employees who may or may not be in the data.  Also, how much more does HAL augment those numbers is also an unknown.  Lots of assumptions and we all know what "Assume" means. 

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On 2/23/2020 at 2:50 PM, RocketMan275 said:

What difference does it make as long as the percentages are agreeable to the crew.

 

On 2/23/2020 at 3:45 PM, pilot said:

Doesn’t matter to me. Let the company and their employees sort it out. 

 

You folks are nobler than I, and I tip my hat to you. It would really bother me if I learned that HAL takes a cut of the HSC for itself. I'm glad to know that, although administered by HAL, the HSC goes 100% to the crew. And I hope "the crew" includes the officer-level personnel who are so ready to lend a hand on the Lido deck and the MDR.

 

Incidentally, FWIW, I know for a fact that the on-board chaplains do not participate in the HSC.

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2 minutes ago, Petronillus said:

the officer-level personnel who are so ready to lend a hand on the Lido deck and the MDR.

 

To whom are you referring?  In the MDR, the Assistant Dining Room Managers do nothing more than greet guests, assign seats during open dining; assisting Stewards with serving the guests:  I have not seen that happen.  

 

Once upon a time--and maybe still on Grand World Voyages--there was a Table Captain for a section of the MDR--who did assist in dining service.  On my recent HAL cruises on Nieuw Statendam, Volendam, and Eurodam:  such a person was never seen in my section of the MDR.  Table Captains did--and if they were at work, which I don't think they are--deserve a gratuity if they are doing their job. 

 

In short:  "Officer-level personnel" ought to be salaried and do not warrant gratuities. 

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5 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

To whom are you referring?  In the MDR, the Assistant Dining Room Managers do nothing more than greet guests, assign seats during open dining; assisting Stewards with serving the guests:  I have not seen that happen.  

 

Once upon a time--and maybe still on Grand World Voyages--there was a Table Captain for a section of the MDR--who did assist in dining service.  On my recent HAL cruises on Nieuw Statendam, Volendam, and Eurodam:  such a person was never seen in my section of the MDR.  Table Captains did--and if they were at work, which I don't think they are--deserve a gratuity if they are doing their job. 

 

In short:  "Officer-level personnel" ought to be salaried and do not warrant gratuities. 

 

In the MDR I was thinking of the beleaguered maitre d' and his/her assistants (the ones wearing suits and ties) who try to accommodate the crowds of anytime diners who all seem to converge at 7 o'clock looking for a special dining table.

As for the Lido buffet, I've observed numerous personnel, both female and male, who are wearing epaulets on their shirts and who don't seem to hesitate to grab a water pitcher or a coffee carafe and to mop up spills when need be. I infer from the epaulets that they are officer-level.

In either case, it wouldn't bother me in the least to learn that they share in a cut of the HSC.

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2 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

I don't have an answer to that question. I know, given the formula I gave, the bar tip money is pooled, so if a given bar steward is working a quiet lounge, they don't get stiffed on tips, as it is a large portion of what they make. So there is no friction on assignments.

 

Thank you for your response to my question.  Honestly, I have wondered about the ladies and gentlemen who get "stuck" in a quiet bar for a cruise.  Knowing that the bar tip is pooled among all of the crew is going to require me to adjust my future end of the cruise gratuities and how I distribute them for the bar staff that serve me.  

 

As an example, on the Volendam:  I spent a good amount of time at the former MIX's Sport Bar in December/January.  I patronized the bar and enjoyed the service.  I spent more time patronizing the Ocean Bar and gave my end of the cruise envelope to the lead bartender of the Ocean Bar.  Only patronized the Seaview Bar once and the Crow's Nest Bar not at all.  Knowing that whatever I offer as an additional gratuity will be received, even a bit, will make me increase the amount that I offer.   

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3 minutes ago, Petronillus said:

In the MDR I was thinking of the beleaguered maitre d' and his/her assistants (the ones wearing suits and ties) who try to accommodate the crowds of anytime diners who all seem to converge at 7 o'clock looking for a special dining table.

 

My opinion:  these crew members should not be considered to be at the Maitre d' level in service personnel.  They do not provide the level of service that I expect a Maitre d' provide.  (If you wish, I can provide specific examples of proper Maitre d' service from my January cruise on MSC Meraviglia.)

  

4 minutes ago, Petronillus said:

As for the Lido buffet, I've observed numerous personnel, both female and male, who are wearing epaulets on their shirts and who don't seem to hesitate to grab a water pitcher or a coffee carafe and to mop up spills when need be. I infer from the epaulets that they are officer-level.

 

Yes, I have seen that as well.  My question has long been:  what is their rank?  

 

The most hard working of such people have been the Assistant Beverage Managers on several HAL ships, particularly during HH.  They are the "white shirts" with epaulets.  I assume they are "management" and would not be part of a gratuity pool.  But--and I think this is VERY important--their involvement in the service of the guests "bleeds" into the efforts and attitudes of the other crew members serving us guests.

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46 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

This discussion on CC about best way to handle gratuity always goes on in circles usually between people who grew up with culture of tip as way of life (pay x per cent in sales tax and around y for tip on top of listed price)

 

Leave a gratuity based on the price of my dinner plus the sales tax charged?  Are you kidding?

 

Restaurants that print on your dinner check a "suggested gratuity at 15%-18%-20% amounts" are always suspect to me.  I check what my dinner has cost before sales tax is applied and will tip based on that amount and NOT on the "suggested" amount. 

 

 

53 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

Poor people are underpaid so badly any way. It is usually considered impolite to put words in other people's mouth.

  

And, its impolite to imply that the crew of HAL are poor people.  These people are trying to improve their financial situation for the benefit of their families and themselves.  

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11 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

Restaurants that print on your dinner check a "suggested gratuity at 15%-18%-20% amounts" are always suspect to me.

Sometimes our "suggested amount" is calculated on the pre-tax total and sometimes including the tax. One restaurant we frequent does not even add sales tax, so I presume it is built into their base prices.

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11 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Leave a gratuity based on the price of my dinner plus the sales tax charged?  Are you kidding?

 

Restaurants that print on your dinner check a "suggested gratuity at 15%-18%-20% amounts" are always suspect to me.  I check what my dinner has cost before sales tax is applied and will tip based on that amount and NOT on the "suggested" amount. 

 

 

  

And, its impolite to imply that the crew of HAL are poor people.  These people are trying to improve their financial situation for the benefit of their families and themselves.  

In my home state of Florida, putting a "suggested gratuity..." is fairly common for restaurants.  It is due to the large tourists both domestic and foreign.  I am not sure why this should be suspect.

 

However your comment about tip based on the base price of the meal, vs base price + tax got me thinking.  Today I am going to place that lists suggested tip amounts.  I will see what the suggested amount is based on.  I normally tip based on base + tax, but definitely understand why you do not.

 

On board ship, I don't really care how the HSC are distributed.  I just leave them on.  If I get what I consider great service I will give an extra tip to that crew member, not caring if it goes in the pool or not. 

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On 2/23/2020 at 6:00 PM, gatour said:

 

 

Don't quite understand this fascination about how the tip are distributed.  It pops up every few months or even more frequently.

 

 

I'm with you on not understanding why there appears to be such a keen interest in the crew's compensation.  Do folks ask a restaurant proprietor if the waiters keep all their tips or have to share it with bus boys or chefs or any other questions regarding their compensation? 

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8 minutes ago, gatour said:

I normally tip based on base + tax, but definitely understand why you do not.

I too think we should not be tipping the state, so I figure 20% of the base (easy math) and then round to the nearest dollar.

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14 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

Restaurants that print on your dinner check a "suggested gratuity at 15%-18%-20% amounts" are always suspect to me.  I check what my dinner has cost before sales tax is applied and will tip based on that amount and NOT on the "suggested" amount. 

One of the complaints about tipping has been that it's too difficult to calculate the tip.   Many are too mathematically challenged to figure that 10% of a $15.00 check can be calculated by moving the decimal place one digit to the left.  A twenty percent tip is the 10% doubled.  

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10 hours ago, catl331 said:

I too think we should not be tipping the state, so I figure 20% of the base (easy math) and then round to the nearest dollar.

Technically you are not tipping the state.  The tip goes to restaurant workers.

 

As a follow up.  I did visit my local restaurant for lunch today.  The suggested tip amounts were in relation to the base price of the meal/drinks.  The sales tax was not a part of the suggested amount.

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6 minutes ago, gatour said:

Technically you are not tipping the state.  The tip goes to restaurant workers.

 

As a follow up.  I did visit my local restaurant for lunch today.  The suggested tip amounts were in relation to the base price of the meal/drinks.  The sales tax was not a part of the suggested amount.

 

Thank you for a follow-up reply.  My opinion:  that price is what one's gratuity ought to be based.

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19 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Thank you for a follow-up reply.  My opinion:  that price is what one's gratuity ought to be based.

 

 

statement you quoted for comment was

"pay x per cent in sales tax and around y for tip on top of listed price"

 

"listed price" does not include sales tax.

So baffled by "are you kidding comment".

Comment said "y for tip. Didnt say how "y" is calculated.

 

Taking 5 seconds to read twice eliminates needs to post incorrect/unnecessary response.

 

 

 

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On 2/23/2020 at 10:18 PM, Crew News said:

Room Stewards and waiters each receive 30% with 40% distributed to those behind the scenes: plumbers, cooks, engineering folks, laundry staff, etc. 

 

Those delivering Room Service are MDR/Lido Market waiters that have volunteered to give up their off time to make extra tips.  A few years ago my MDR waiter delivered daily appetizers to me at 3:00 PM and I asked him.  Before he left the room, he always asked if I would be at my table for dinner and if he should save me the dinner menu.

 

When touring the Nieuw Statendam Recycling Center, I learned that all of the reclyclables are sold with the income going to the "Crew Fund". So, when the art auctions stopped sending their flyers, the Crew Fund suffered.

 

I knew about the 30%, 30% and 40% distribution about I didn't know about what I high lighted in red.

 

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22 minutes ago, hal2008 said:

 

 

statement you quoted for comment was

"pay x per cent in sales tax and around y for tip on top of listed price"

 

"listed price" does not include sales tax.

So baffled by "are you kidding comment".

Comment said "y for tip. Didnt say how "y" is calculated.

 

Taking 5 seconds to read twice eliminates needs to post incorrect/unnecessary response.

 

 

 

 

Not trying to be offensive but it is super hard to interpret your comments, so I can understand why others may misinterpret.  I know I read your comments numerous times in order to try to understand them.  I would say I have a 1% success rate.

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hal2008,  Allow me to give a concrete example of what I was saying:

 

Cost of a dinner=$50

Sales Tax=5%

 

$50 x 5%=$2.50         $50 + $2.50=$52.50    $52.50 is what I owe the restaurant's management.  

 

A 20% tip on the cost of the dinner and the tip = $10.50

 

A 20% tip on the cost of the dinner=$10.00

 

I prefer to tip my wait person on the cost of just my dinner.

 

The amount I would then pay for my dinner would be $62.50.  Not $63.00, if I based my tip on the cost of my dinner including the sales tax charge.

Edited by rkacruiser
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