Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)

[caribill]

6 hours ago, spyro1952 said:

They are holding the ship out of port, helicopter corona kits in and test B2B passengers and those showing symptoms that could be corona.

 Other precautions are also being taken. For example, "the cruise ship had canceled its theater shows, but the casino was open."

 

and  

 

"they've noticed subtle changes on the cruise. They had to wash their hands and use hand sanitizer before getting a plate and silverware for the buffet.

"And crew handled everything," he said. "We were not allowed to serve ourselves.""

 

  https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/05/health/california-coronavirus-cruise-ship-thursday/index.html

 

By the way, the recent photo of that ship in the article shows a lack of maintenance for rust stains on the outside of the ship. 

[cruiseanon32]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/on-grand-princess-confusion-and-missteps-reigned-as-coronavirus-spread-passengers-say/ar-BB10N7dZ?ocid=spartandhp

[Journey99999]

6 minutes ago, cruiseanon32 said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/on-grand-princess-confusion-and-missteps-reigned-as-coronavirus-spread-passengers-say/ar-BB10N7dZ?ocid=spartandhp

THANK YOU for the update!! 
WOW!! 😞 😞 😞 not good!!

[chengkp75]

39 minutes ago, Farts said:

I am referring to the fogging machines. 

 

There are many things in medicine that we have to consider. Does Virkon kill it in a laboratory setting? If so, what concentration and duration does exposure to Virkon have to be. How much remains after disinfection? 95%? 99%? 99.9%? What surfaces is it efficacious on? In statistics, we have perfect use vs real world use. So what are the rates of both? So many questions to be answered.

 

With all due respect, medicine is a lot more complicated than: me spray germ. 

 

We know so little about covid 19. That's what makes doctors nervous. And a YUGE proportion of doctors in the states are older than the age of 55 yo (~40%). 

I agree with all of your points, but as I said, as I am not an epidemiologist, I defer to the knowledge and years of experience gained in epidemiology by those at the CDC, who feel that fogging with Virkon provides sufficient concentration and contact time on all types of surfaces. Again, not my decision, not my testing, theirs.  I guess from your statements that you don't feel the CDC are some of the finest in their field?

[Fredric22]

15 minutes ago, cruiseanon32 said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/on-grand-princess-confusion-and-missteps-reigned-as-coronavirus-spread-passengers-say/ar-BB10N7dZ?ocid=spartandhp

I'm not sure what these people think Princess should have done?  I love how the guy in the article seems to be waiting for Princess to tell him if he should stay home from work because he's sick. 🤦  Has common sense completely gone out the window?

[Farts]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I agree with all of your points, but as I said, as I am not an epidemiologist, I defer to the knowledge and years of experience gained in epidemiology by those at the CDC, who feel that fogging with Virkon provides sufficient concentration and contact time on all types of surfaces. Again, not my decision, not my testing, theirs.  I guess from your statements that you don't feel the CDC are some of the finest in their field?

Lol. Please don't assume.

 

I am saying that we don't have the data. Some of this stuff cannot be derived until after months of data, such as real world vs perfect use. 

[MissP22]

55 minutes ago, mellow moog said:

Educate people to wear masks in public when having a cold, cough or feeling unwell.

Will the ship provide them?

Doubtful I think.

[atexsix]

13 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

Princess may not have known if it was just the flu or the virus, but given all the information available at the time it should have raised red flags. 
 

The man who died today is not the only confirmed case from the Mexico cruise. There is a patient in the hospital in Sonoma County who is confirmed with the virus from that cruise   - and one has to wonder how many others. 
 

chengkp75- I trust your expertise from reading your analysis on multiple boards over the years. So if the fogging is reliable, does the question then become - did Princess perform this throughout the ship between the two sailings?  If they did, then would that not have eliminated this reoccurrence of the virus on the next itinerary? 

 

BINGO!  No argument from me on the reliability of fogging but are you going to bet your life on it that it had been done?

 

Also agree on how little we know, all of us are rats in a giant cage atm.  

Edited March 5, 2020 by atexsix

[CruisinCrow]

5 hours ago, luckyinpa said:

any info on how many cases are in florida, the cruise capitol of the world. id assume a lot if cruise ships really are the carriers the media portrays them to be

 

Three at this time and none associated with cruising.  Two women had returned from Italy.  They don't know where the other person caught it.

 

Looks like there might be a 4th one.  It's awaiting CDC confirmation.

Edited March 5, 2020 by CruisinCrow

[brisalta]

10 hours ago, caribill said:

 

I do not know if all test kits are the same, but the local TV news just said that a test kit can be used for 700 samples which would mean using it two times for 350 people.

 

Hey that is Texas were they claim everything is bigger so divide by 2 to get an approximation of reality. 😉

[CruisinCrow]

2 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

This is what they are doing. They trace the contacts of an infected persons. Check for symptoms. Test those with symptoms and follow up on the rest.

 

In Korea, they are identifying clusters of infection, and doing mass testing on the churches, offices etc. There's why the Korean numbers are rising so quickly. On the other hand, they are identifying the cases at an early stage. The death rate is only 0.6% of the infected versus 3% in other countries.

 

In British Columbia, we had done 1,500 tests on 1,012 cases to confirm 8 infections (0.8%). No community spread of COVID19. To date, there are 12 travel-related cases and still no community spread. You have to get ahead of the curve.

 

 

Unfortunately, this is not what the US is doing.  Until VERY recently, they were only testing people with symptoms AND who had been in a handful of countries.  One man was in the hospital for days and his doctor begged for testing before he finally got it, because he hadn't been traveling.  Now I think they realize more testing is needed but there aren't enough test kits.  We're already way behind the curve.

[californiagirl]

Oh my goodness that picture is hilarious!!  We are on vacation on Kauai right now and can relate to that picture.  The Grand was in port Wednesday of last week.  Hanalei was packed with cruisers.  

[voljeep]

the real question now should be has Hawaii reported any cases/outbreaks yet ???

[satxdiver]

I just called Princess on another matter and when the automated answering service answered, the first thing I heard was "select 7" for information about pax on the Grand, "select 8" if you have a future Grand cruise, etc.  I was calling about an existing reservation (not to cancel) and was advised that there were over 100 calls in the queue and to call back later.  Looks like they are getting slammed with pax calling probably not so much to book a cruise.

[chengkp75]

52 minutes ago, Farts said:

Lol. Please don't assume.

 

I am saying that we don't have the data. Some of this stuff cannot be derived until after months of data, such as real world vs perfect use. 

And, while I agree that testing on this new virus is still in the short term results, testing on other viruses has been done over years, and just like with claims that various things kill noro virus, they are tested on "near cousin" viruses like feline calicivirus since it is virtually impossible to culture noro in the lab.  My argument was against your statement that fogging was likely not effective against "or anything", and I feel that both the EPA and CDC have test data to back up their approvals and procedures.  Just the poor guy on the handle of the fogger.

[Farts]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, while I agree that testing on this new virus is still in the short term results, testing on other viruses has been done over years, and just like with claims that various things kill noro virus, they are tested on "near cousin" viruses like feline calicivirus since it is virtually impossible to culture noro in the lab.  My argument was against your statement that fogging was likely not effective against "or anything", and I feel that both the EPA and CDC have test data to back up their approvals and procedures.  Just the poor guy on the handle of the fogger.

 

Where is the proof that it is effective? Consensus statements are different than randomized control trials. I could be wrong. But until i see the data, I would be concerned. And some ID docs are saying that the fogger doesn't do anything. Not me. 

[brisalta]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 Other precautions are also being taken. For example, "the cruise ship had canceled its theater shows, but the casino was open."

 

and  

 

"they've noticed subtle changes on the cruise. They had to wash their hands and use hand sanitizer before getting a plate and silverware for the buffet.

"And crew handled everything," he said. "We were not allowed to serve ourselves.""

 

  https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/05/health/california-coronavirus-cruise-ship-thursday/index.html

 

By the way, the recent photo of that ship in the article shows a lack of maintenance for rust stains on the outside of the ship. 

 

Every time I have been on the Grand there has been crew in the buffet insisting that people wash their hands.

 

The Grand Princess is painted at every opportunity. Rust appears on ships hulls very rapidly and shows easily on white. Many ships are painted dark colors hence on those ships it is more difficult to see rust stains.

[rocklinmom]

I live in Placer County and to give an idea of how this whole thing snowballs...the firefighters (and paramedics) who assisted the poor person who died yesterday from the Grand cruise are now self quarantined for two weeks. The firefighters' family members are not. The school district sent out an email last night saying that the CDC says they don't have to put the family members in self quarantine because they aren't currently showing symptoms. They list the four schools that those family members go to/work at. One is my daughter's so she is not there today. It's been reported that corona virus victims have not shown symptoms at first and that is my concern. The local community college is reporting that two office staff members were also on the same cruise and have been sent home to self quarantine as well. I have two students there but the office staff wouldn't have been in classrooms so not a concern yet. Local stores are sold out of Lysol wipes, hand sanitizer, hand soap, TP, etc. It's very disconcerting and shows how this whole thing spreads way beyond the cruise ship itself. 

[cr8tiv1]

Hawaii has no known cases...yet.  But the governor has just issued a state of emergency to get funds.  

 

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/03/05/hawaii-news/iges-state-of-emergency-declaration-follows-the-death-of-a-passenger-on-a-cruise-ship-that-visited-four-hawaiian-islands/

Edited March 5, 2020 by cr8tiv1

[MoniMommy]

10 minutes ago, rocklinmom said:

I live in Placer County and to give an idea of how this whole thing snowballs...the firefighters (and paramedics) who assisted the poor person who died yesterday from the Grand cruise are now self quarantined for two weeks. The firefighters' family members are not. The school district sent out an email last night saying that the CDC says they don't have to put the family members in self quarantine because they aren't currently showing symptoms. They list the four schools that those family members go to/work at. One is my daughter's so she is not there today. It's been reported that corona virus victims have not shown symptoms at first and that is my concern. The local community college is reporting that two office staff members were also on the same cruise and have been sent home to self quarantine as well. I have two students there but the office staff wouldn't have been in classrooms so not a concern yet. Local stores are sold out of Lysol wipes, hand sanitizer, hand soap, TP, etc. It's very disconcerting and shows how this whole thing spreads way beyond the cruise ship itself. 

Thank you for sharing your experience. Clearly when a cruise ship is impacted the effects go far beyond the ship.  The greedy cruise executives, though, will continue to squeeze out every dollar they can regardless of the  collateral damage.  I hope you and  your family stay well. 

[morrfran]

14 minutes ago, rocklinmom said:

I live in Placer County and to give an idea of how this whole thing snowballs...the firefighters (and paramedics) who assisted the poor person who died yesterday from the Grand cruise are now self quarantined for two weeks. The firefighters' family members are not. The school district sent out an email last night saying that the CDC says they don't have to put the family members in self quarantine because they aren't currently showing symptoms. They list the four schools that those family members go to/work at. One is my daughter's so she is not there today. It's been reported that corona virus victims have not shown symptoms at first and that is my concern. The local community college is reporting that two office staff members were also on the same cruise and have been sent home to self quarantine as well. I have two students there but the office staff wouldn't have been in classrooms so not a concern yet. Local stores are sold out of Lysol wipes, hand sanitizer, hand soap, TP, etc. It's very disconcerting and shows how this whole thing spreads way beyond the cruise ship itself. 

Thanks for this. It's an excellent example of the impact of just one (sadly) person with the virus. 

[lovetoreview]

For those of you who were on this sailing, will you let me know what port/ports in Mexico the ship visited from the 11-21st. Thank you. All I have ever been able to find is "Mexico" 

[asm777]

2 minutes ago, lovetoreview said:

For those of you who were on this sailing, will you let me know what port/ports in Mexico the ship visited from the 11-21st. Thank you. All I have ever been able to find is "Mexico" 

 

I found this map on USA Today:

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/03/05/coronavirus-princess-cruise-passengers-wait-coronavirus-tests/4962112002/

Edited March 5, 2020 by asm777

[lovetoreview]

Thank you so much!

[voljeep]

if only I could turn back time … these Corona threads are a real downer, and way too technical for me

 

bring back the threads 

 

2 pats of butter

removal of the barrel chair

tuba practice on the balcony

drones

 

seriously, this is a serious situation and precautions should be taken to mitigate damages, from pre-planning and post-planning for occurrences that are still going to happen ...