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Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)


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5 minutes ago, jennybenny said:

OK, we heard it differently. In the end, it's not enough for a state with almost 40 million people. 

Each of those 5000 kits can test 300 samples.

The California State Public Health Lab in Richmond will be using the kits. That is the lab where the samples from the Grand will be going to.

The San Mateo County Public Health lab will be ready to start receiving test kits and testing next week.

Other county public health labs in California will follow.

 

Edited by brisalta
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1 minute ago, brisalta said:

Each of those 5000 kits can test 300 samples.

The California State Public Health Lab in Richmond will be using the kits.

The San Mateo County Public Health lab will be ready to start receiving test kits and testing next week.

Other county public health labs in California will follow.

 

That's good to hear!! I missed that. 

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4 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Agreed but that is as of today with more to come all the time (hopefully fast)

Right.  I think it's important to get more people tested. I travel a lot for work, would hate to spread this unknowingly.

Edited by jennybenny
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1 minute ago, jennybenny said:

That's good to hear!! I missed that. 

 

I heard that on a conference call that Representative Spear and the San Mateo Public Health Dept organized for residents of the county. It was a push call

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I sincerely hope that all those on the Grand will be okay. As well as those on the previous Mexico itinerary. That is the most important piece. 
 

That said - help me understand why, when Princess knew there were people with flu like symptoms on the Mexico itinerary, that they just turned the ship around on time and boarded new passengers for the Hawaii itinerary?  
From the Mexico itinerary we know for a fact that the one passenger died today in Placer County. We know that there is another person in Sonoma county in the hospital with confirmed virus from that Mexico trip. There is also another person who self quarantined when she returned home in Sonoma County for 14 days following that trip. She had reported to Princess her symptoms. No follow up from them - so this all bears the question - did Princess not learn their lesson in Japan?  And - how many more people from that Mexico trip have dispersed with no follow up? 
Now we have more confirmed virus currently on a ship that turned around from another itinerary with the virus that Princess knew there were ill people on. 

Again - my thoughts are with all of you on the Grand. 

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55 minutes ago, Pstcrik said:

It is one thing to clean and sanitize hard surfaces but when it comes to soft surfaces like fabric chairs, curtains, beds, pillows it is not that easy.  Mattresses especially.  Bedding can we washed but mattresses should be sealed and treated under pressure and I rather doubt this is done on any regular basis.

Actually, the agent most frequently used on cruise ships for sanitizing is Virkon, which is applied in a fogger, and is equally as effective on soft surfaces as on hard surfaces.

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25 minutes ago, brisalta said:

Each of those 5000 kits can test 300 samples.

The California State Public Health Lab in Richmond will be using the kits. That is the lab where the samples from the Grand will be going to.

The San Mateo County Public Health lab will be ready to start receiving test kits and testing next week.

Other county public health labs in California will follow.

 

It is not clear that the labs that process the kits have anywhere near the capacity to perform the tests in high volumes. (As I understand it, these are not instant read tests like a quick read pregnancy test.)

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4 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

I sincerely hope that all those on the Grand will be okay. As well as those on the previous Mexico itinerary. That is the most important piece. 
 

That said - help me understand why, when Princess knew there were people with flu like symptoms on the Mexico itinerary, that they just turned the ship around on time and boarded new passengers for the Hawaii itinerary?  
From the Mexico itinerary we know for a fact that the one passenger died today in Placer County. We know that there is another person in Sonoma county in the hospital with confirmed virus from that Mexico trip. There is also another person who self quarantined when she returned home in Sonoma County for 14 days following that trip. She had reported to Princess her symptoms. No follow up from them - so this all bears the question - did Princess not learn their lesson in Japan?  And - how many more people from that Mexico trip have dispersed with no follow up? 
Now we have more confirmed virus currently on a ship that turned around from another itinerary with the virus that Princess knew there were ill people on. 

Again - my thoughts are with all of you on the Grand. 

 

I think the lesson Princess learned in Japan is get people off the ship as soon as possible, and get new paying customers on the ship.  Additionally, way back on February 21, almost no one in the entire Country was being tested (less than 500 people total, I believe.)  So Princess really had no way of knowing if the passengers just had the flu or had the Coronavirus.

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55 minutes ago, Pstcrik said:

It is one thing to clean and sanitize hard surfaces but when it comes to soft surfaces like fabric chairs, curtains, beds, pillows it is not that easy.  Mattresses especially.  Bedding can we washed but mattresses should be sealed and treated under pressure and I rather doubt this is done on any regular basis.

Agree.   Plus it's impossible to get every square inch unless you hose the place down from top to bottom.   On the news they showed someone cleaning a NYC subway station and I laughed at the .005 second swipe.  I'd expect the same given number of available employees to sanitize an entire ship, you'd need several people doing nothing else.

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The timeline would be consistent with possibly many people being infected on board right now:   

  • 2/11 Grand starts 10 day Mexico cruise
  • 2/19 passenger starts to show symptoms ( and thus became infected early in the cruise)
  • 2/21 Grand returns to SF; leaves for 15 day cruise to Hawaii 
  • soon thereafter:  passenger is hospitalized (news says he had "very little" community contact between cruise and hospital)
  • 3/3 passenger dies  

 

Apparently 62 passengers to Mexico did B2B and are on the ship now.   It is possible, but seems unlikely, that the deceased passenger was the only one infected on the Mexico cruise.   Current infections on the ship could have three sources: (1) 62 B2B passengers; (2) crew; and (3) "new" passengers who boarded 2/21 (this category would be independent of prior infection).   Bottom line, it's entirely possible there are many cases on board now.  

 

The problem is that people who were recently infected (and asymptomatic) can test negative.  That's the point of a longer quarantine.    Even if you get immediate medical care for all positives, what do you do with everyone else?  You can't keep them on the ship after the Diamond Princess--but there is a risk involved in letting them all walk off.  So unfortunate.  

 

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On 3/3/2020 at 12:12 AM, cruisequeen4ever said:

I’ve read a few articles about this, and I wonder why they keep mentioning her cruise. Couldn’t she have become infected after the cruise since it’s been 10 days? She lives in a region with known cases. Or is it just that they’re afraid she was infected before the cruise and may have unwittingly exposed others onboard the ship? I just hope they don’t auto assume she caught it on the ship. If she did, then the truth should come out, but I just think that people are too quick to blame cruises for the spread. 

 

The woman who died went to the hospital in an ambulance six days after disembarking.  The Grand is returning directly to SF and skipping the Ensenada stop.  62 passengers from the Mexican cruise (plus of course the crew) stayed onboard for the Hawaii cruise.

 

"The Grand Princess cruise ship is expected to arrive off the coast of San Francisco on Thursday as the CDC investigates a "small cluster" of coronavirus cases associated with its previous voyage. The first patient to die of the new coronavirus in California was on the Grand Princess from February 11 to 21."

 

No paywall link for this.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/princess-cruise-passenger-dies-coronavirus-ship-heads-for-san-francisco-2020-3

 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-04/cdc-investigates-after-california-cruise-passenger-dies-of-coronavirus-and-others-fall-ill

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I do feel bad for everyone on the Grand. We were on that ship for 3 cruises, in laws from both sides included, and everyone had a wonderful time.

 

Honestly if they do find 2~3 people with the virus, what is the best thing to do? Diamond Princess seemed to have made matter worse.

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Those poor ladies in the live stream. Around 60 passengers were back to back, bad weather meant everyone was inside and a bit more packed together...

 

At least the Bay area has some of the finest medical facilities in the world.

 

It was almost surreal watching the stream, these nice ladies coughing, wondering if it will escalate...

Edited by maizer
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It will be interesting to see if it is the State or the Federal Government that takes the lead on deciding what to do with the passengers currently onboard, if one or more tests positive for the Coronavirus.  I assume this would be a federal matter, but the state seems to be taking the lead for now.  

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24 minutes ago, atexsix said:

Agree.   Plus it's impossible to get every square inch unless you hose the place down from top to bottom.   On the news they showed someone cleaning a NYC subway station and I laughed at the .005 second swipe.  I'd expect the same given number of available employees to sanitize an entire ship, you'd need several people doing nothing else.

Again, fogging does a very quick and thorough coverage of all surfaces in a space.

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I saw that the 60 or so B2B passengers were supposed to stay in their cabins this morning.  What about the 1,000 or so crew members who were also on the last crew?  It does not really make sense to let them roam free, but not the passengers.  

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Don't think this will be a popular post, but I genuinely feel there must now be consideration given to all Cruise lines suspending sailings for a meaningful (3 months ?) period. 

 

Yes, it's a nuclear option, but how else can the risk of a repitition of Diamond Princess be avoided ? With the spread of the virus across all continents (ex. Antarctica), the chances of someone getting on board any cruise ship, whilst unknowingly incubating it, are surely increasing rapidly. Once that person embarks, everyone else on board is immediately at risk, as (a la Grand Princess) are those on subsequent cruises.

 

An absolute nightmare and potential financial disaster for all Cruise lines.

 

But in the current circumtances, I just don't see how ships are going to be able to continue to sail. If they continue to do so, they surely risk becoming public enemy number one, in addition to the obvious potential of class action law suits.

 

Better to get ahead of the game and take decisive action now, in the hope that it will pay off medium term.

 

(And no, I don't think planes should stop flying. They aren't carrying 2,000-6,000 passengers !).

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39 minutes ago, cruiserchuck said:

 

I think the lesson Princess learned in Japan is get people off the ship as soon as possible, and get new paying customers on the ship.  Additionally, way back on February 21, almost no one in the entire Country was being tested (less than 500 people total, I believe.)  So Princess really had no way of knowing if the passengers just had the flu or had the Coronavirus.

Princess may not have known if it was just the flu or the virus, but given all the information available at the time it should have raised red flags. 
 

The man who died today is not the only confirmed case from the Mexico cruise. There is a patient in the hospital in Sonoma County who is confirmed with the virus from that cruise   - and one has to wonder how many others. 
 

chengkp75- I trust your expertise from reading your analysis on multiple boards over the years. So if the fogging is reliable, does the question then become - did Princess perform this throughout the ship between the two sailings?  If they did, then would that not have eliminated this reoccurrence of the virus on the next itinerary? 

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40 minutes ago, Cruising Is Bliss said:

 

The woman who died went to the hospital in an ambulance six days after disembarking.  The Grand is returning directly to SF and skipping the Ensenada stop.  62 passengers from the Mexican cruise (plus of course the crew) stayed onboard for the Hawaii cruise.

 

"The Grand Princess cruise ship is expected to arrive off the coast of San Francisco on Thursday as the CDC investigates a "small cluster" of coronavirus cases associated with its previous voyage. The first patient to die of the new coronavirus in California was on the Grand Princess from February 11 to 21."

 

No paywall link for this.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/princess-cruise-passenger-dies-coronavirus-ship-heads-for-san-francisco-2020-3

 

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-04/cdc-investigates-after-california-cruise-passenger-dies-of-coronavirus-and-others-fall-ill

The patient who passed away was a man from Placer County.  Dr. Aimee Sisson, county health official believes there is strong evidence that his illness was connected to the ship.  This is from her press conference this afternoon.  He had few contacts between the ship and hospital admission.  The female patient is in another county. 

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5 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

Princess may not have known if it was just the flu or the virus, but given all the information available at the time it should have raised red flags. 
 

The man who died today is not the only confirmed case from the Mexico cruise. There is a patient in the hospital in Sonoma County who is confirmed with the virus from that cruise   - and one has to wonder how many others. 
 

chengkp75- I trust your expertise from reading your analysis on multiple boards over the years. So if the fogging is reliable, does the question then become - did Princess perform this throughout the ship between the two sailings?  If they did, then would that not have eliminated this reoccurrence of the virus on the next itinerary? 

Without knowing the confirmed patients travel history, or the travel history of all the passengers on that cruise, it is hard to say whether red flags would have gone up or not.  This is the problem with this virus, that many people can have it and have little to no symptoms, so tracing it back is difficult, and actual case reporting will likely be vastly underreported.  If a typical noro virus type cleaning was done with Virkon, then the ship itself would have been free of the virus, but any of the crew or passengers that carried over to the next cruise could have still been contagious, and "re-infected" the ship on the second cruise.  Just like a noro cruise, where they clean the ship, but a new passenger brings it back onboard after the sanitizing is done.

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The Passenger that died did not come to the hospital till 2/27 so Princess had no way of knowing on the 21st there was anyone who may have had the virus. The other passenger  in Sonoma Co tested 1st again days after the 21st. I was on the Grand sailing  2/11-2/21 I did not know then of any problems. We got the Health Advisory early this am from Princess At that time they asked people who took the Sonoma Co Shuttle to call a number. Then soon after heard about the 2nd person who died later in the day We have been home 12 days with no illness so far.

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  • CCHelp changed the title to Grand Princess Coronavirus Discussion (retitled after merger of several topics)
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