Are our cruising days over? (merged topics re: health and age restrictions)

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, WmFCoyote said:

The ability to read and not comprehend a post is not a requirement to responding as some of the posters have demonstrated.

I do not see where anyone has claimed that PCL has required a FTS letter as of today. The possibility that PCL might require a "Fit to Sail" letter before allowing a passenger to board a cruise is very real if the passenger has "an underlying, severe, chronic medical condition" and would only be able to receive a FCC for a cruise that they might never be allowed to take. Who decides what the criteria for denying the right to board and would that be before booking?, after final payment?, or at the dock? We will wait for more and clearer information from PCL before we place any of our hard earned funds into their hands.

 

According to page 2 of Princess' "Covid-19 Update" released yesterday:  "C. Enhanced Screening for Certain Guests and Crew: Certain individuals will only be permitted to board based on successful secondary screening results. Secondary screenings will be conducted by the medical staff in the terminal prior to embarkation. "  Also on Page 2:   "All guests who are denied boarding due to sickness will be issued a full cruise credit or refund."

 

I don't know if the above helps you.  Certainly if you have a strong enough concern that you'll never be able to sail again you should probably not take the risk of booking a cruise.  You may want to explore other leisure time options.  I do think, I'd rather be on a cruise ship than a tour bus but that's just me.  Good luck making your decision.

[dreaminofcruisin]

This is in the latest document and the part in red seems pretty vague since it is not defined.:

 

Travel Restrictions: Guests and crew members meeting certain criteria will be unable to sail. Guests who are unable to sail because of a failure to meet the following criteria will be issued a full cruise credit or refund:

 I. If you have been in contact with a suspected or confirmed case of COVID-19, or a person under monitoring for COVID-19.

II. If you are suffering from a fever or flu-like symptoms prior to embarkation.

III. If you have an underlying severe chronic medical condition.

 

The above requirements apply to all guests, crew members, service staff and visitors. If you meet any of these criteria, please advise us as soon as possible by calling 1-800-PRINCESS in North America or the Princess Cruises Customer Service center in your area so we can discuss this matter before you travel to the terminal for embarkation.

 

https://www.princess.com/downloads/pdf/plan/Health-Advisory-and-Travel-Safety-Procedures.pdf

 

 

[Daniel A]

15 hours ago, dreaminofcruisin said:

This is in the latest document and the part in red seems pretty vague since it is not defined.:

 

III. If you have an underlying severe chronic medical condition.

 

I agree that it is vague,  but how can Princess be more specific about all the different chronic medical conditions?  The medical community can't seem to agree as to what conditions are classed as 'chronic' let alone what makes it 'severe.'  I've put some thought into this and I think if I can make a couple of examples I believe I can at least help others understand what they mean in section III.

 

An individual may have an underlying chronic asthma condition but the symptoms are well controlled by medication.  Symptoms may present infrequently if at all.  A person with  underlying severe chronic asthma might be experiencing symptoms several times a week and might require the use of a rescue inhaler at least once a day.  My opinion only, but I would think the first person would not need to be screened further whereas the second person would need a more intensive evaluation.

 

A person who experiences seasonal allergies might be considered to have an underlying medical condition but not one that is considered to be severe.  I think common sense will be a major determining factor in determining chronic and severe chronic.  Time will tell but certainly the cruise lines are all walking a fine line between turning away paying customers and those who are at higher risk should they get sick.  I think we are all looking for clear definitive answers to many questions that do not have those answers right now.

[WmFCoyote]

We just booked 2 cruises on Princess for 2021. First one is a 14 day RT from LA to Alaska and the second is a 14 day Quebec to Ft Lauderdale a few months later also in 2021. I plan on waiting a while (Before final payment is due) before I write Princess and ask "We are both over 70 and I have had type II diabetes for over 25 Years and my Blood sugar is normally about 101. Will you allow us to cruise?" I will ask for a written reply. Maybe by then PCL will be able to establish a consistent policy.

[Ride-The-Waves]

6 hours ago, WmFCoyote said:

We just booked 2 cruises on Princess for 2021. First one is a 14 day RT from LA to Alaska and the second is a 14 day Quebec to Ft Lauderdale a few months later also in 2021. I plan on waiting a while (Before final payment is due) before I write Princess and ask "We are both over 70 and I have had type II diabetes for over 25 Years and my Blood sugar is normally about 101. Will you allow us to cruise?" I will ask for a written reply. Maybe by then PCL will be able to establish a consistent policy.

I am working the same issue with a river cruise line.  IMHO its unlikely you will get a definitive statement from Princess regarding your ability to embark.  Several reasons.  It would require Princess to refund your monies sooner than later - no obfuscation of FCC.  Second, it implies that Princess is endorsing your claim with insurance.  Neither is of benefit to Princess.

[AF-1]

Princess sent email out today and it states the new health requirements for sailing with them.  No mention of age restrictions.  If you have chronic conditions; they suggest you contact them prior to sailing; I assume they want their medical staff to review you condition; and make a decision if you should or should not sail.  Makes sense to be pro active;  don't want to show up at the port and be denied boarding.  They also recommend passengers buy travel insurance.  

[dog]

3 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

........ IMHO its unlikely you will get a definitive statement from Princess regarding your ability to embark.  Several reasons.  It would require Princess to refund your monies sooner than later - no obfuscation of FCC.  Second, it implies that Princess is endorsing your claim with insurance.  Neither is of benefit to Princess.

 

I called and asked about this Sat. Rep tried to help. she spoke to supervisor whie I was on hold; was told they were referring to CDC guidelines.  I agree with your post above.

[RocketMan275]

On 4/14/2020 at 7:32 PM, Thrak said:

Possible Disqualifying Conditions:

Chronic Flatulence

Chronic Bad Breath

Loud Talker

Smoker

Stinky Feet

Obnoxious Laugh

Know-It-All

Lives in California

 

My wife is a "sneezer". There is nothing wrong with her but she will have explosive and loud sneezes. The doctor says not to worry but it's LOUD and startling.  Probably a "disqualifying condition".

 

Chronic blue jean wearer.

[joe d]

On 4/15/2020 at 10:38 PM, dreaminofcruisin said:

This is in the latest document and the part in red seems pretty vague since it is not defined.:

 

Travel Restrictions: Guests and crew members meeting certain criteria will be unable to sail. Guests who are unable to sail because of a failure to meet the following criteria will be issued a full cruise credit or refund:

 I. If you have been in contact with a suspected or confirmed case of COVID-19, or a person under monitoring for COVID-19.

II. If you are suffering from a fever or flu-like symptoms prior to embarkation.

III. If you have an underlying severe chronic medical condition.

 

 

 

 

 

If you check the April 14 document you will note that condition no.3 has been dropped. 

Only Princess can revise a document and not change the date.

[SargassoPirate]

Direct from the CDC website is a list of underlying medical conditions.  The focus here is Covid-19, but the seasonal flu can add to the risk factor for these conditions.  Also notice the disclaimer - If Not Well Controlled.  

 

 

COVID-19 is a new disease and there is limited information regarding risk factors for severe disease. Based on currently available information and clinical expertise, older adults and people of any age who have serious underlying medical conditions might be at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19.

Based on what we know now, those at high-risk for severe illness from COVID-19 are:

• People 65 years and older
• People who live in a nursing home or long-term care facility

People of all ages with underlying medical conditions, particularly if not well controlled, including:

• People with chronic lung disease or moderate to severe asthma
• People who have serious heart conditions
• People who are immunocompromised
  • Many conditions can cause a person to be immunocompromised, including cancer treatment, smoking, bone marrow or organ transplantation, immune deficiencies, poorly controlled HIV or AIDS, and prolonged use of corticosteroids and other immune weakening medications
• People with severe obesity (body mass index [BMI] of 40 or higher)
• People with diabetes
• People with chronic kidney disease undergoing dialysis
• People with liver disease

[dog]

2 hours ago, joe d said:

If you check the April 14 document you will note that condition no.3 has been dropped. 

Only Princess can revise a document and not change the date.

 

yes, and this Adivisory has been updated on my new booking in my Personalizer to exclude point III.

[Cruise Raider]

7 hours ago, joe d said:

If you check the April 14 document you will note that condition no.3 has been dropped. 

Only Princess can revise a document and not change the date.

 

I was just commenting on that myself.  Although it benefits many right now to have that dropped, it just seems unethical to revise an official notification and not change the date to reflect the updates.  Whose to say they won't do that same thing at another time whereas it will not benefit these passengers?  Nope ... it always said that!   It seems like a ploy to get people to book, or at least not cancel, future cruises as this statement was discouraging to keep current bookings (more refunds)  or make new bookings (less cash).  Both scenarios are lost revenue for Princess.  

I'm booked on another line as well ... their processes throughout this whole ordeal are equal with generating criticism, though.  I haven't seen comments that any one line is handling it better than the other ones.  I'm not trying to single out Princess, they are all making unforced errors in their handling of these cancellations that were forced upon them.  

 

 

[WmFCoyote]

Now that the EU has proposed restrictions does the question "Are our cruising days to Europe Over?" become a viable question again?

[Thrak]

On 7/5/2020 at 10:30 PM, WmFCoyote said:

Now that the EU has proposed restrictions does the question "Are our cruising days to Europe Over?" become a viable question again?

 

For those of us in the US it's unlikely any other country is going to want us to visit for a long time.

[AF-1]

I agree with you Thrak.  I don't see it in happening anytime this year for sure.

[MissP22]

Personally, I can't see how any of the cruise lines can stay in business unless there's a foolproof vaccine introduced very soon. 

It so sad since many of us really enjoyed cruising as a past time in our retirement years. 

[Ride-The-Waves]

4 hours ago, MissP22 said:

Personally, I can't see how any of the cruise lines can stay in business unless there's a foolproof vaccine introduced very soon. 

It so sad since many of us really enjoyed cruising as a past time in our retirement years. 

As a virologist recently stated, its not the vaccine, its the vaccinations.  In Europe and the US there are a large number of anti-vaxxers who will not participate.  Without them "we" are unlikely to achieve "herd immunity."  Additionally, the virus is mutating (again) making it lighter and easier to transmit.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Ride-The-Waves

[WmFCoyote]

2 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

As a virologist recently stated, its not the vaccine, its the vaccinations.  In Europe and the US there are a large number of anti-vaxxers who will not participate.  Without them "we" are unlikely to achieve "herd immunity."  Additionally, the virus is mutating (again) making it lighter and easier to transmit.

 

First of all, if a vaccine is developed and proves effective then cruise lines will (Should) require customers and crew to provide certification that they have received the vaccine before being allowed to board for a cruise. It would be a higher effective rate and do more to control the virus than mandating that cruisers obtain a "letter" from a doctor saying they are "fit to sail".

Secondly, can you provide the scientific source that proves that the virus is mutating? Could it be that the morons that have the virus are not taking precautions such as social distancing and wearing face masks? Could those people with a ***** attitude be the reason for the spike in number of positive cases? I do believe that with more testing there will be a higher positive rate but until there is a vaccine that is proved effective the best bet is social distancing and personal protective equipment.

Hope everyone stays healthy and we hope to see you onboard.

[Ride-The-Waves]

3 hours ago, WmFCoyote said:

 

First of all, if a vaccine is developed and proves effective then cruise lines will (Should) require customers and crew to provide certification that they have received the vaccine before being allowed to board for a cruise. It would be a higher effective rate and do more to control the virus than mandating that cruisers obtain a "letter" from a doctor saying they are "fit to sail".

Secondly, can you provide the scientific source that proves that the virus is mutating? Could it be that the morons that have the virus are not taking precautions such as social distancing and wearing face masks? Could those people with a ***** attitude be the reason for the spike in number of positive cases? I do believe that with more testing there will be a higher positive rate but until there is a vaccine that is proved effective the best bet is social distancing and personal protective equipment.

Hope everyone stays healthy and we hope to see you onboard.

Many sources on the mutation - just search.  Here is one from Scripps:  https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-events/press-room/2020/20200612-choe-farzan-coronavirus-spike-mutation.html  

[Ride-The-Waves]

3 hours ago, WmFCoyote said:

 

First of all, if a vaccine is developed and proves effective then cruise lines will (Should) require customers and crew to provide certification that they have received the vaccine before being allowed to board for a cruise. It would be a higher effective rate and do more to control the virus than mandating that cruisers obtain a "letter" from a doctor saying they are "fit to sail".

Secondly, can you provide the scientific source that proves that the virus is mutating? Could it be that the morons that have the virus are not taking precautions such as social distancing and wearing face masks? Could those people with a ***** attitude be the reason for the spike in number of positive cases? I do believe that with more testing there will be a higher positive rate but until there is a vaccine that is proved effective the best bet is social distancing and personal protective equipment.

Hope everyone stays healthy and we hope to see you onboard.

I expect that is coming IF a vaccine is developed and IF it can be made available.  Like having a record in your international yellow vaccine record (International Health Record), such as MMR and Yellow Fever vaccination.  With today's technology it may be possible to include in electronic chipped passports.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Ride-The-Waves

[MissP22]

What everyone has posted is 100% correct and makes me wonder about the future of cruising at all in the future. 

[DCGuy64]

No way cruising is over. No. Way. How do I know this? Simple: history. The Titanic happened in 1912, over 100 years ago. Since then, we've had 2 World Wars, the Spanish flu, the stock market crash of 1929 and the Great Depression, the crash of 1987, the recession of 2008-2009, Ebola, MERS, H1N1, etc etc. I have total confidence that cruising will resume, and actually already has done. We will get over this and cruising will resume, and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever about that. Have a good day, everyone!

[AF-1]

DCGuy64;  I like you spirit and positive outlook

[iancal]

I feel confident that we will cruise in the future.   Perhaps in 18-24 months.  Certainly not interested in that FCC wac a mole of a mugs game.  We will wait it out  but until then not a dime will pass from us to any cruise line.  And if it never does...well we will move forward with other plans.  Our world certainly does not revolve around cruising.

 

Not in the least bit concerned about increased prices.  If cruise prices rise to much a good proportion of travelers will opt for competing travel/vacation options.

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, AF-1 said:

DCGuy64;  I like you spirit and positive outlook

Thanks for saying that, I appreciate it.

Part of why I'm so upbeat is that I've been watching a lot of videos on YouTube by cruise experts, and all of the ones I've seen are optimistic. Furthermore, cruising has already begun in other parts of the world. Hurtigruten in Norway had a sailing a few weeks ago, and Dream cruises is sailing a Taiwan cruise on July 26. I will be interested to see how various guidelines change how people cruise, at least for the time being, but I do see cruising resuming very soon. We have cruises booked for January and next April and are hopeful. A guy's gotta hope!