Refund Status for canceled cruises: Retitled after merges

[nho9504]

18 hours ago, LawDog61 said:

What are people here submitting as poof to the Credit carD company?  I took a quick look at the dispute resolution form for Costco Visa, and they require that proof of attempt to resolve the dispute be attached.   Well, I don’t have much (as in nothing) from Princess. Thanks for any suggestions.

 

The form you submitted for the Option 2 refund.  You did submit that form, right?  Also the Receipt of Refund Request email from Princess is more than needed to support your dispute now you have been patiently waiting for many weeks but not yet seeing any results from Princess.

 

Costco Visa is issued by Citibank which is very friendly in handling disputes on travel services not fulfilled while refund not coming as they should.

One friend could not get Aegean airlines to refund the several hundreds dollars of fuel surcharge on an award booking - it is paid with a Citi card.  He filed dispute and the money back to his account in less than a week.

Another friend had a non-refundable booking of accommodation made thru Expedia paid with Citi card.  Expedia issued policy that ALL bookings affected by SARS-Cov2 are fully refundable.  Lodging owner would not refund.  He filed dispute and again, full credit back to his Citi card in a week.

[Cruise Raider]

19 hours ago, Sail4th said:

Absolutely! 

 

Me, too!!  If I miss my deadlines, whether it is paying my bills by the due date, having reports done for a meeting, showing up at the airport at the right time, etc, etc, etc ... there are almost always consequences to pay!  

[PrincessLuver]

2 hours ago, voljeep said:

Pretty sure Princess has the same group that rolled out OM working on the refunds !🍷🦄🛳️🐬🍻🛸

 

Oh Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! 

[PrincessLuver]

17 minutes ago, nho9504 said:

 

Let me put it this way - IF they do care as you so wishfully think they do,  then at a minimum, they could do a much better, much more transparent communication as to how they are trying but because of this and this and this, obstacles, they would need more time - just a common courtesy to tell your customers that you have difficulties and that you are trying to do your best to serve YOU, the customers, so let's get thru this together...

 

I am sure if Princess ever demonstrate a slightest effort on the above, many people here would be willing to give the company more slack...

 

Yet, what do we have seen so far?  We have to find all sorts of excuses to "forgive" Princess not doing its job.  That is NOT customers' responsibility, mind you!

When we called, we are not being told any useful information.  Worse, we are constantly being misled, if not outright lied to.  I would say the phone reps are just as frustrated as we, because they are not given any information to tell the customers.  They dont even have the access to check customers' accounts to give a "progress update"! 

 

As for answering the phone - today I called, I got the recording message about if "your sailings are after March 10, please do not call as we have to take care of those passengers first.  So at this time we would not be able to take your call."

 

This is on May 12th,  60 days from the 1st pause being announced!   I bet you many people called to ask about the status of their refunds - so Princess decides NOT to answer your calls,  to show you they care... 

 

Oh, they dont even bother to make a new recording to reflect what the latest reality is, but just switched the mechanism first put in place in early March right at the 1st pause...

 

Yeah, they care, answer your calls with a recording to essentially tell you that you would be hung up on (that actually happened) with a recording message that is 60 days OLD.

 

And you still want to give this company yet another excuse? 

 

Bingo!!

[sfaaa]

3 hours ago, LDVinNC said:

 

I was in IT for 35 years.  If they wanted to refund our money, they could and would be doing so.

IT deals with computer issues and does not run accounting or managing company cash flow.

[Cruise Raider]

17 hours ago, Sail4th said:

Called Princess and spoke with nice man Carl, when I asked about the status of my refund, he said it had been sent to finance and he said to hold he’d check with them then the line went dead at 7:01pm....

 

And, they are probably calling either other on zoom and all having a good laugh over how they get one over on basically telling customers to go to ... well, you know where.  

[Triger]

I believe there are many factors contributing to the delays; staffing levels, working from home, etc.  But the company was on the verge of bankruptcy and now has to meet ongoing expenses, the largest is getting their crews home (remember those great people on board who catered to all our wants and needs) they have been stuck on their ships for 60 days away from their families and many will be unemployed for a long time. The cash CCL has (after their recent re-financing and don't forget CCL has many brands under the umbrella to manage with now limited cash resources) is firstly going to meet ongoing sea operations and salaries of reps still working. (All ships are at sea needing maintenance, fuel, food for the crews, etc.)

We all know were are promised refunds and I believe the company is working to provide them but no doubt at a pace that balances their operating cash needs and what they can spare.  Maybe if we all stopped calling then the staff could concentrate on refunds, FCC, etc. People keep off the phones. 

We are also waiting for a refund from another cruise line; same delays, promises and limited communication plus add the concern for  long term viability.  We have come to the conclusion we may never see our refunds, they may be  write offs.  It may be beneficial to take a somber second look.  Please stay safe and be patient. 

[nho9504]

3 hours ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

 

BS.  First off, I'm a CPA who has worked with dozens of varying accounting systems.  Refunds should have ALL been issued by now if they even remotely wanted to.  I know that 100% as fact, not opinion.  This much should be abundantly clear to you, if you say it is difficult to issue all those refunds, and hardly any of it has actually been issued in two months save for some early pre-pause stragglers, then according to your thinking, it will will take DECADES to process all of the refunds.

 

My eyes are even opened WIDER. And I don't like what I see: Ugliness, selfishness, lying, retroactively changing published corporate releases, disrespecting their customers and utter desperation; and ALL of it is coming from Princess.

 

 

Well said! 

 

This is the part I discovered today right in front of my eyes and is the ugliest, most blatant, most unethical act Princess has done so far - WORSE then the constant lying because this is a corporate release posted on its own website for goodness sake!

 

From me whose previous life was also a CPA.

[as400guy]

5 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

IT deals with computer issues and does not run accounting or managing company cash flow.

 

IT is the group that builds and TRAINS Accounting & Management to use their systems!  🤑

[PrincessLuver]

2 hours ago, Coral said:

I think everything is relative also. Some people are out $1000 while others are out $20,000. That is a huge difference in how one reacts potentially on their situation. There are also a lot of people who are suddenly out of work who never expected that and this refund could help them out tremendously. Not everyone's situation is the same - try to be sensitive to that.

 

A couple of people on CC have stated they are out over $50,000....you are correct that our $15,000 is somewhat major but it must be really painful to be waiting for $50,000 no matter how much cash you have.

[sfaaa]

1 minute ago, as400guy said:

 

IT is the group that builds and TRAINS Accounting & Management to use their systems!  🤑

Does IT department do the books, prepare financial statements, managing cash flow projections, prepare budgets and file tax returns? Computer system is just an operating tool to get a task done.

[ghstudio]

If you paid for your cruise and cancelled (or the cruise was cancelled after the final payment due date, what legal basis are you using to get a refund?  Are you claiming that you cancelled and under the cancellation penalty you are due 75% back (etc)....or is there some other clause in the contract of passage that allows you to file a dispute with your credit card company?

 

[voljeep]

25 minutes ago, nho9504 said:

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, nho9504 said:

 

deleted

Edited May 12, 2020 by voljeep

[voljeep]

24 minutes ago, nho9504 said:

  4 hours ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

 

BS.  First off, I'm a CPA who has worked

 

24 minutes ago, nho9504 said:

 

Well said! 

 

This is the part I discovered today right in front of my eyes and is the ugliest, most blatant, most unethical act Princess has done so far - WORSE then the constant lying because this is a corporate release posted on its own website for goodness sake!

 

From me whose previous life was also a CPA.

as CPA's , how many refunds for services not rendered have you processed ??😉🤑

[TM]

I have been a Princess cruiser and supporter for many years.  But there is no way any reasonable person can condone and approve the way Princess has been handling the return of monies they have held back from customers.  It is totally unacceptable and personally I think they have turned off many loyal customers.  I have seen reductions in what is offered over the past 28 years and have been OK with those reductions in order to keep prices reasonable.  But I refuse to accept that they cannot and will not return our funds.  It is just a way of showing that they have cash on hand when in fact it should be counted as a liability owed to customers.

[PrincessLuver]

21 minutes ago, ghstudio said:

If you paid for your cruise and cancelled (or the cruise was cancelled after the final payment due date, what legal basis are you using to get a refund?  Are you claiming that you cancelled and under the cancellation penalty you are due 75% back (etc)....or is there some other clause in the contract of passage that allows you to file a dispute with your credit card company?

 

 

Cruise was paid for in timely and good faith manner and Princess without warning canceled cruise and allowed option of full refund which they then sent a receipt to me saying that they would issue refund within 30 days.  

 

Company did not deliver service and also has not returned payment for those services so it is basically a breach of contract.

 

These credit cards companies and banks have their policies for consumers and companies which determine how disputes are to be handled and resolved.

 

Most people who have reported on credit card disputes with Princess on CC have indicated that their credit card company or bank has ruled in their favor regarding this matter.

Edited May 12, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[PrincessLuver]

48 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

Me, too!!  If I miss my deadlines, whether it is paying my bills by the due date, having reports done for a meeting, showing up at the airport at the right time, etc, etc, etc ... there are almost always consequences to pay!  

 

I am sure if it were the other way around Princess would be very understanding and have no problem with us taking a cruise and then paying them later.....knowing we are working hard on getting them the money and to just be patient with us.

[ceilidh1]

For those that are reluctant to grasp why the process is unreasonable and why customers are (rightfully) becoming frustrated/angry. Here is a little scenario for your consideration:

 

Imagine that you are one of those still fortunate to have employment and an income at this time. When this all went down in early March, your boss approached you and told you that he valued you as an employee and really wanted you to stick with him. He would remain in business but, as money coming in to his business was significantly reduced, he might not be able to pay you for a week or so. You have always liked working for this employer, they treat you well, and you want to see them get through the crisis and come out the other side, so you agree to continue working without pay for 7-10 days.

 

As the 7 day mark comes, you ask your boss when you are likely to receive your paycheque. Your boss apologises and says that it's taking longer than expected and now even less money is coming in so it will be more like 30 days. You are a little disappointed that your boss hadn't let you know this but you also understand that this pandemic has had huge implications worldwide. You cut him slack and continue to work without pay.

 

As day 25 approaches, you check in with your boss again. Once again, he apologises but still can't pay you. Now he says maybe 60 days. Once again, he did not let you now this at any time - you had to find out yourself and contact him. You are really getting concerned now and running out of money for rent and bills. You decide that this is the last chance, continue working without pay, and wait another 40 days.

 

You ask your boss again about your pay. He says that he really has no idea when he will be able to pay you.

 

Would you continue to wait? Would you even have agreed to wait the 30 days? The 60 days? Surely if your boss valued you that much he wouldn't expect you to do that? This scenario is basically exactly what Princess is doing with its customers.

[nho9504]

20 minutes ago, voljeep said:

 

as CPA's , how many refunds for services not rendered have you processed ??😉🤑

 

What makes you think CPAs have anything to do with process refunds for services?   What does this have anything to do with how Princess not provide a promptly refund / not provide any communication / constantly moving the goal post / blatantly modified published Notices on its own website? 

 

Since you constantly harp on how many cruises the lines have canceled,  how about the domestic airlines as a comparison?

 

IIRC others have already provided you the DAILY number of flights DL flies, 

 

it is worth to repeat here one more time

 

• Delta serves more than 200 million people every year, taking customers across its industry-leading global network to more than 300 destinations in over 50 countries.
• Headquartered in Atlanta, Delta offers more than 5,000 daily departures and as many as 15,000 affiliated departures including the premier SkyTeam alliance, of which Delta is a founding member.

Source - https://news.delta.com/corporate-stats-and-facts

 

And DL does not go back to change / erase what it has published on its own website.

 

Plus DL refunds as soon as you make the requests for refund on flights they canceled, not accepting the default voucher...  why?  because if DL does not refund, even dragging its feet in process refund, THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES, Serious Consequences -  Department of Transportation would FINE them tens of thousands of dollars on EACH violation,  or if they dont pay the fine, they are forbidden to fly their routes touching US soil...  This makes all international airlines also have to process refunds PROMPTLY on flights they canceled that touched US soil...  REGARDLESS under what circumstances, per DOT's issuance of Enforcement - when airlines were trying to pull a cruise line stint.

 

The reason why here we have no way to get back our OWN money is because cruise lines have NO government overseeing agency hence we have no consumer protection.

 

May be you finally realize that?

 

The constant excuses some of you keep trying to find on how difficult for the cruise lines to process refunds are truly ridiculous.

 

I understand you dont want the cruise lines to go under - however, this is NOT something you who are stupidly willingly to give them your own money could save them , if they could not find infusion of new capitals to keep them stay in business.

 

What ends up would be your own money be tied up for years when and if they file bankruptcy / going thru restructure of debts, to name the very basic items.

 

Once again, those who have paid their cruises with credit cards, file a dispute no later than 60 days from the date of your original cruise date based on service not rendered. 

 

There is absolutely no reason to keep finding excuses for an unethical company by questioning others who dont put up with the ongoing BS. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by nho9504

[voljeep]

3 minutes ago, nho9504 said:

t is worth to repeat here one more time

 

• Delta serves more than 200 million people every year, taking customers across its industry-leading global network to more than 300 destinations in over 50 countries.
• Headquartered in Atlanta, Delta offers more than 5,000 daily departures and as many as 15,000 affiliated departures including the premier SkyTeam alliance, of which Delta is a founding member.

smell the roses, blow out the candles ...

 

how many refunds has Delta processed ?

[Coral]

1 hour ago, Triger said:

 

We all know were are promised refunds and I believe the company is working to provide them but no doubt at a pace that balances their operating cash needs and what they can spare.  Maybe if we all stopped calling then the staff could concentrate on refunds, FCC, etc. People keep off the phones. 

 

The people answering the phones are not the ones issuing the refunds. They are distinct departments.

[majorjan]

In March, Delta processed more than one million refunds, totaling more than $500 million, the company said.

[dog]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

To be honest while I have been a customer of Princess it makes no difference to me if the cruise line survives or not. If it fails some other company will fill the space, if sufficient demand exists for the product.

 

 

 

Well, it certainly matters to many people who are waiting for refunds and those who are getting FCC, doesn't it?

I don't believe another company will have to honor Princess debts? Will they?

 

 

1 minute ago, Coral said:

The people answering the phones are not the ones issuing the refunds. They are distinct departments.

 

Yes, that is correct. The rep who answered the phone for me tried to answer my questions, had to speak to her supervisor and then when I was ready to book with my FCC, had to transfer me to another agent who could process my booking. (This last one was Matt, and he was very knowledgeable, friendly and seemed to be better informed then any of the others I've spoken to this year.

[nho9504]

28 minutes ago, voljeep said:

smell the roses, blow out the candles ...

 

how many refunds has Delta processed ?

 

What you really NEED to know is that - it does not matter on how many, but it MATTERS is this FACT, and it is enforced by DOT.

 

For all airlines whose canceled flights would have touched US soil -

 

Any passenger who calls to get a refund back to original form of payment even if voucher has issued at the first place.

 

This is enforced by DOT.

 

May be you should spend time to learn HOW other travel providers have handled the cancellation / refund, instead of spending time to find excuses for Princess.   At least this may help you to know what things truly matters!

 

https://viewfromthewing.com/you-can-get-a-refund-even-if-you-already-accepted-a-voucher-for-a-cancelled-flight/

 

And below is my friend's personal experience with DL.

 

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32307959-post177.html

 

Excerpt

so I called DL last week to see what was going on. They said they had issued me a voucher for the tickets. I said I did not want a voucher -- I wanted a refund. The agent said she couldn't give me a refund. I said this was against DOT regulations, and asked to speak to a supervisor. The supervisor immediately issued the refund to the Chase credit card.

 

Another person got COPA (Flag Carrier of Panama) to refund him promptly after being run around by the airline, and he filed a DOT complaint.  His canceled flights touched US soil.

 

Excerpt

I finally opened a DOT complaint and tweeted Copa. Copa then swiftly refunded to Chase/Expedia. A day or so later, Chase/Expedia sent me an email saying the UR points are back in my account.

If your airline canceled your flights, get them to refund to the original form of payment. Chase should then automatically refund you the UR points. This worked for me, I hope it will work for you too.
 

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32354012-post203.

 

And this is important to know should an airline try the tactics Princess are doing right now.

 

https://viewfromthewing.com/uniteds-new-refund-policy-is-an-unfair-and-deceptive-practice-per-dot-guidance/

 

The big problem of course is, there is no government overseeing agency on cruise lines.  That is why the passengers now have no protection, other than their credit card issuers if they paid the the trip with credit cards.

 

Also for you to learn something, should you not know it already.

 

This may be behind Pay Wall as it is a LA Times article

 

https://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2020-04-27/dispute-credit-card-refunds

 

There, enough information to let you know HOW MANY is NOT the issue here - REFUND IS ISSUED UP REQUEST is what matters.   I am sure anyone has anything above his shoulders would know which is more important.  Although YMMV.

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by nho9504
Add info

[voljeep]

3 minutes ago, nho9504 said:

 

What you really NEED to know is that - it does not matter on how many, but it MATTERS is this FACT, and it is enforced by DOT.

 

Any passenger who called to get refund even if voucher has issued at the first place.

 

May be you should spend time to learn HOW other travel providers have handled the cancellation / refund, instead of spending time to find excuses for Princess.   At least this may help you to know what things truly matters!

 

https://viewfromthewing.com/you-can-get-a-refund-even-if-you-already-accepted-a-voucher-for-a-cancelled-flight/

 

And below is my friend's personal experience with DL.

 

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32307959-post177.html

 

Excerpt

so I called DL last week to see what was going on. They said they had issued me a voucher for the tickets. I said I did not want a voucher -- I wanted a refund. The agent said she couldn't give me a refund. I said this was against DOT regulations, and asked to speak to a supervisor. The supervisor immediately issued the refund to the Chase credit card.

 

Another person got COPA (Flag Carrier of Panama) to refund him promptly after being run around by the airline, and he filed a DOT complaint.  His canceled flights touched US soil.

 

Excerpt

I finally opened a DOT complaint and tweeted Copa. Copa then swiftly refunded to Chase/Expedia. A day or so later, Chase/Expedia sent me an email saying the UR points are back in my account.

If your airline canceled your flights, get them to refund to the original form of payment. Chase should then automatically refund you the UR points. This worked for me, I hope it will work for you too.
 

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32354012-post203.html

 

And this is what DOT says to United when it tries to deceive its customers

 

https://viewfromthewing.com/uniteds-new-refund-policy-is-an-unfair-and-deceptive-practice-per-dot-guidance/

 

The big problem of course is, there is no government overseeing agency on cruise lines.  That is why the passengers now have no protection, other than their credit card issuers if they paid the the trip with credit cards.

 

Also for you to learn something, should you not know it already.

 

This may be behind Pay Wall as it is a LA Times article

 

https://www.latimes.com/travel/story/2020-04-27/dispute-credit-card-refunds

 

There, enough information to let you know HOW MANY is NOT the issue here - REFUND IS ISSUED UP REQUEST is what matters.   I am sure anyone has anything above his shoulders would know which is more important.  Although YMMV.

 

so, you don't know … gotcha

 

and how many ACTUALLY DOES MATTER !!!