Possible replacement for Canadian ports

[elwood_98034]

2 minutes ago, beachseasand said:

What I meant was for incoming passengers who had booked flights into Vancouver and could not change to get bused to Seattle. The ship would leave from Seattle. Sorry about the confusion.

I don't think too many ships will be coming into Seattle this year. I might be wrong, but I have my doubts.

[Newleno]

2 minutes ago, fastpitchdad said:

 

If we are still under a national emergency I doubt cruise ships will be on the list of things anyone cares about. 

Hmm the whole industry is shut down so I think someone cares but opinions vary.

[fastpitchdad]

2 minutes ago, Newleno said:

Hmm the whole industry is shut down so I think someone cares but opinions vary.

 

Not in any way where the federal government would try to figure out how to enable Alaska cruises before July 1. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by fastpitchdad

[em-sk]

59 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

I've now also found documentation of the possibility of a waiver under the PVSA . As with the Jones Act, the waiver has to be for national defense reasons. I'd be hard-pressed to find a national defense reason that could be cited for the situation we're currently facing. Cruising is a leisure activity, not a necessity.

 

The waiver information can be found on page 20 of CBP's informed compliance document for the PVSA:

 

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Sep/PVSA-ICP.pdf

 

In the Canadian system the authority to issue permission for ships or aircraft to enter the country rests with the Ministry of Transport.  That authority is then delegated to staff that process the actual entries. 

 

The announcement that Ministry has banned cruise ships with more than 500 people is below....

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2020/03/government-of-canada-announces-intention-to-defer-the-start-of-cruise-ship-season-in-canada-as-covid-19-response-measure.html

 

The Transport minister is an engineer by training, former military officer and former astronaut.  Fairly certain any decision to change the rules on the Canadian side will be driven by scientific evidence and data.  They basically are trying to avoid another Diamond Princess.

 

In the press release the head of public health in Canada has recommended to Canadians that they do not go on cruises until this is resolved.  

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by em-sk

[elwood_98034]

1 minute ago, YVRBassElectric said:

BC's Chief Medical Officer has epidemic experience and I think we will be ok - will depend on how many follow her advice to self-isolate. We have Pandemic Supplies and a plan and have been testing and tracking since our first case of Jan 25, we only have one case that they don't know where she was infected (unfortunately did start an outbreak at an Elder Care facility) 

I figured you guys would be ahead. We still seem to have senior officials touching faces and shaking hands while cramming into the camera frame at press conferences here.But the WHO honcho's do the same thing.

[fastpitchdad]

1 minute ago, em-sk said:

 

The Transport minister is an engineer by training, former military officer and former astronaut.  Fairly certain any decision to change the rules on the Canadian side will be driven by scientific evidence and data.  

 

 

What??? You mean he is not an unqualified friend or relative of Trudeau? That doesn't make any sense. 

[Newleno]

11 minutes ago, fastpitchdad said:

 

Not in any way where the federal government would try to figure out how to enable Alaska cruises before July 1. 

oh you did not say that the first time, the first time you said: "I doubt cruise ships will be on the list of things anyone cares about."

[fastpitchdad]

2 minutes ago, Newleno said:

oh you did not say that the first time, the first time you said: "I doubt cruise ships will be on the list of things anyone cares about."

 

I said if we are still under a federal emergency in response to using those powers for a cruise port waiver. 

Edited March 15, 2020 by fastpitchdad

[beachseasand]

So do you think the taxpayers, (government) will buy the stock of the cruise lines to keep them afloat like we did during the great recession for GM and Chrysler as well as some of the banks? It would save many jobs.

[em-sk]

2 minutes ago, beachseasand said:

So do you think the taxpayers, (government) will buy the stock of the cruise lines to keep them afloat like we did during the great recession for GM and Chrysler as well as some of the banks? It would save many jobs.

 

In the case of the auto bailout, both the Canadian and the US governments came together to do a bailout.   i don't know about the US, I would be shocked to see the Canadian government try to bail out an industry that is based in a foreign country with ships registered under flags of convenience and with predominantly foreign crew.  

 

They may put together some type of loan package to help the business in port but it is likely to be part of a bigger strategy for the entire tourism industry.   

 

The decision to delay the start of the cruise ship season is all driven by public health and avoiding what is going on now in Italy.   

 

[elwood_98034]

13 minutes ago, beachseasand said:

So do you think the taxpayers, (government) will buy the stock of the cruise lines to keep them afloat like we did during the great recession for GM and Chrysler as well as some of the banks? It would save many jobs.

American jobs? I didn't see too many American workers the last time I was on a cruise. Nah. No Americans. The cruise lines have outsmarted themselves on this one.

Edited March 15, 2020 by elwood_98034

[doneall50]

10 hours ago, beachseasand said:

   I hope that I am not taking the COVID-19 situation lightly, but could we be out of the woods by June 1st? We are/were sailing on the Jewel June 8th out of Vancouver. And I know it sounds selfish, but NCL could switch to Seattle and run buses for those who could not change flights from Vancouver to Seattle. It seems the port is empty on those days, and the company could mitigate their losses. I guess it all depends on how well the public practices social distancing. I feel terrible for those who are sick or worse, and I am wary about all of the sanitation measure put in place by the lines, but we planned this 18 months ago and there are 19 of us going. We more than likely will not be able to all get our schedules together again. Best wishes to all as we work our way through this.

The Jones Act would have to be suspended. Ships out of Seattle have to have at least one foreign port before they return to Seattle, and with both Vancouver and Victoria closed, right now that's not possible. Trump could probably suspend it under the national emergency guidelines though. 

[em-sk]

33 minutes ago, fastpitchdad said:

 

What??? You mean he is not an unqualified friend or relative of Trudeau? That doesn't make any sense. 

 

Weird.  When he retired from the Navy it was as a Captain of a destroyer. 

 

I am confident the decision on the Canadian side is solid and it is not going change due to political pressure.  If it does change it going to be driven by medical/public health.  

 

The fact the banned all cruise ships through the north west passage (the arctic ) but only banned the southern routes  until July 1st is a good indication that things may improve.  That said the wording on July 1st is a bit on the tentative side.  So we will have to see how that pans out.

[YVRBassElectric]

37 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

We still seem to have senior officials touching faces and shaking hands while cramming into the camera frame at press conferences here.

I found the Mar 13 Press conferences from the Canadian & American governments to be very telling - both Leaders had been exposed to Covid, Trudeau appeared by himself, Trump on a packed stage. 

 

I really do feel for the American people & your Healthcare workers! Canada learned from SARS in 2003, so we have Pandemic plans & supplies

[Turtles06]

35 minutes ago, doneall50 said:

The Jones Act would have to be suspended. Ships out of Seattle have to have at least one foreign port before they return to Seattle, and with both Vancouver and Victoria closed, right now that's not possible.

 

Just to be clear, it's the Passenger Vessel Services Act, not the Jones Act.

[mugtech]

1 hour ago, beachseasand said:

So do you think the taxpayers, (government) will buy the stock of the cruise lines to keep them afloat like we did during the great recession for GM and Chrysler as well as some of the banks? It would save many jobs.

If the people involved are looking to save jobs, perhaps the Philippines taxpayers (government) will buy cruise stock to keep them afloat.

[elwood_98034]

26 minutes ago, YVRBassElectric said:

I found the Mar 13 Press conferences from the Canadian & American governments to be very telling - both Leaders had been exposed to Covid, Trudeau appeared by himself, Trump on a packed stage. 

 

I really do feel for the American people & your Healthcare workers! Canada learned from SARS in 2003, so we have Pandemic plans & supplies

I got sent into one of the first HIV negative pressure capsules in about 1984 as a student, as the regular workers had refused to go in. A couple of years later I saw Leprosy, and then separately, Tertiary Syphilis in a hot chick. OMG, she was lovely. Adorable. Which probably explains why she was covered in syphilis.

Since then I have zero trust.

[Newleno]

57 minutes ago, YVRBassElectric said:

I found the Mar 13 Press conferences from the Canadian & American governments to be very telling - both Leaders had been exposed to Covid, Trudeau appeared by himself, Trump on a packed stage. 

 

I really do feel for the American people & your Healthcare workers! Canada learned from SARS in 2003, so we have Pandemic plans & supplies

Remind me again what country's first lady has corona?  

[kristinp36]

1 hour ago, elwood_98034 said:

American jobs? I didn't see too many American workers the last time I was on a cruise. Nah. No Americans. The cruise lines have outsmarted themselves on this one.

Alaskan jobs....they are Americans

[fastpitchdad]

6 minutes ago, Newleno said:

Remind me again what country's first lady has corona?  

 

The one not building a tennis court during a global crisis? 

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, em-sk said:

 

In the Canadian system the authority to issue permission for ships or aircraft to enter the country rests with the Ministry of Transport.  That authority is then delegated to staff that process the actual entries. 

 

The announcement that Ministry has banned cruise ships with more than 500 people is below....

https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-canada/news/2020/03/government-of-canada-announces-intention-to-defer-the-start-of-cruise-ship-season-in-canada-as-covid-19-response-measure.html

 

The Transport minister is an engineer by training, former military officer and former astronaut.  Fairly certain any decision to change the rules on the Canadian side will be driven by scientific evidence and data.  They basically are trying to avoid another Diamond Princess.

 

In the press release the head of public health in Canada has recommended to Canadians that they do not go on cruises until this is resolved.  

 

 

 

 

Everyone here is discussing the issue because we already know what the Canadian government has done.

 

 I was addressing what the US government would have to do to waive the PVSA requirement that a foreign-flagged ship must visit a foreign port in order to make a cruise legal. In other words how can the Alaska cruise season be salvaged in light of Canada's closing their ports to virtually all cruise ships.

 

[em-sk]

12 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Everyone here is discussing the issue because we already know what the Canadian government has done.

 

 I was addressing what the US government would have to do to waive the PVSA requirement that a foreign-flagged ship must visit a foreign port in order to make a cruise legal. In other words how can the Alaska cruise season be salvaged in light of Canada's closing their ports to virtually all cruise ships.

 

 

Even if the US changed its PVSA act the ship would have to stay out of Canadian waters in some fairly tight channels as it sails in and out of the Salish Sea. 

 

They will also need to deal with all the lost revenue from the guests from Europe that are banned from entering the US.  Just now the Europeans can enter Canada through the airport in Vancouver but not the US.  Maybe they can get an exemption from the travel bans at the same time as the PVSA exemption.

 

 

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, njhorseman said:

 

I've now also found documentation of the possibility of a waiver under the PVSA . As with the Jones Act, the waiver has to be for national defense reasons. I'd be hard-pressed to find a national defense reason that could be cited for the situation we're currently facing. Cruising is a leisure activity, not a necessity.

 

The waiver information can be found on page 20 of CBP's informed compliance document for the PVSA:

 

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2019-Sep/PVSA-ICP.pdf

You are correct, and I must have mentally discounted the emergency power clauses as irrelevant since there would be no national defense consideration for a cruise ship, unless it was carrying troops.

[SouthLyonCruiser]

18 hours ago, Mightyjoey1 said:

Umm...err...no, it is meant to protect American shipyard workers and crew.  Repeal that law, and you will find freighters undercutting unions and wage protections here in the states.  Yeah, it sucks to have cruises cancelled; why Canada can't allow access to an island off-shore that can be accessed by tender (technically) is more the possible answer than undercutting American workers.

 

That excuse wont work because all of the freighters that I know of come from or go to foreign ports regularly and therefore don't care one way or the other where their ships are built. U.S. ports suffer because, instead of coming into one more U.S. port and spending money here, they waste time going to some foreign port and spending money there.

[JVD2]

10 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Everyone here is discussing the issue because we already know what the Canadian government has done.

 

 I was addressing what the US government would have to do to waive the PVSA requirement that a foreign-flagged ship must visit a foreign port in order to make a cruise legal. In other words how can the Alaska cruise season be salvaged in light of Canada's closing their ports to virtually all cruise ships.

 

Who wants cruise ships in CDN waters ??

Can they go the long way around and add a day or two to the cruise ??