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Doctor signing form for cruise

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5 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

I don't understand, if you don't have one of these illnesses heart, lung, liver or kidney disease or immunodeficiency status due to HIV/AIDS, cancer or diabetes, why your doctor wouldn't sign it.  I see it as protection for NCL if you get the virus and die on this ship or when you get home, your family couldn't sue them.  I don't see why the doctor would be liabel for anything unless they are lying when they sign the form and one does have one of the diseases. 

I have none of those.  My Dr decided that she didn't want anyone going on a cruise...not signing nothin.  Nor would any other physician in the office do so.  Hence the diy method that seems popular here.

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5 hours ago, NLH Arizona said:

...

 

I see it as protection for NCL if you get the virus and die on this ship or when you get home, your family couldn't sue them.  I don't see why the doctor would be liabel for anything unless they are lying when they sign the form and one does have one of the diseases. 

You see this as a protection for NCL - because if someone did get ill/die, the doctor’s note would protect them —- can’t you see that NCL would only be off the hook because the doctor would be on the hook?

 

  Don’t take my word for it —- just ask your doctor if he/she would sign such a note.

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Just now, navybankerteacher said:

You see this as a protection for NCL - because if someone did get ill/die, the doctor’s note would protect them —- can’t you see that NCL would only be off the hook because the doctor would be on the hook?

 

  Don’t take my word for it —- just ask your doctor if he/she would sign such a note.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Just now, NLH Arizona said:

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Easy enough to prove - just bring that form of note to your next appointment and ask your doctor. 

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NCL is not alone in this. The other majors are doing it as well.

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Those thinking of forging a doc's signature might want to check to make sure a fraudulent medical release won't adversely impact travel insurance coverage.  I honestly don't know the answer as it doesn't apply to me.   But I would sure want to know.     

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To answer the question of alleged ageism, yes, chronic conditions happen to people of all ages.

 

However, younger people plus the virus are faring better than older people plus the virus. 

 

A ship is a closed system. They are trying to reduce the gravity of any exposure to the virus that comes via a cruise ship.

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Come on folks, have some empathy for an industry grasping at anything that will help keep them afloat.  Most likely, this doctors note thing will quickly disappear (along with most cruises in the next few months).  Since folks want to talk about NCL, perhaps folks might want to wonder if NCL will even survive this virus mess.  The financial strain on all the cruise lines is huge and this might be a case where only the strongest will survive.  Just 2 weeks ago, not many thought the situation would get to this point at all...much less in only 2 weeks.   We have been avid cruisers for over forty years and have seen cruise lines come and go.  Of the 14 lines we have cruised, many are simply a blip on the past history of the cruise industry.

 

I have been on this earth for 7 decades and have never seen the world deal with a problem like COVID-19.  While many of us are still thinking about our next cruise or trip, there are many others concered about their jobs, wedding plans, etc.  The issue of doctors notes for cruises that will likely be cancelled, for cruise lines that might find themselves on life support, is something folks might want to push to the back of their thoughts.  If I were a gambling man, I would bet that this doctor note thing will disappear when cruise lines begin to resume operations.

 

Hank

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Your travel insurance is invalidated if you lie about your health and I think forging a doctor's signature would equally disqualify you. I was brought up to be truthful - what's happened with people?!

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On 3/15/2020 at 12:15 PM, NLH Arizona said:

I don't understand, if you don't have one of these illnesses heart, lung, liver or kidney disease or immunodeficiency status due to HIV/AIDS, cancer or diabetes, why your doctor wouldn't sign it.  I see it as protection for NCL if you get the virus and die on this ship or when you get home, your family couldn't sue them.  I don't see why the doctor would be liabel for anything unless they are lying when they sign the form and one does have one of the diseases. 

I think you might be a little naïve when it comes to Standards of Medical Practice.  While a physician can and does routine physicals and can certainly screen for obvious anomalies,  most family physicians would be crazy to sign a form saying somebody over seventy is free of heart, lung, liver or kidney, disase.  At the very least I know my physician, who laughed when I told him about the form, would want to do a ECG, Echo Cardiogram, ultra sound testing of the carotids, Aortic screening with ultra sound, etc.  None of this is routine, would cost Medicare thousands of dollars, take weeks to arrange and would cause the physician some grief when dealing with insurance companies who would certainly question the medical necessity of such tests.

 

The problem is that while some physicians would simply sign the form, many others would see it as an open ended liability issue and want no part of that certification.  Consider a physician that says somebody is "fit to cruise," and that person suffers a stroke or cardiac episode on the cruise that cost the cruise line a lot of money because they must deviate to get the passenger to the nearest port.  Could the cruise line then sue the physician?   Or how about the newly minted widow, whose husband dies from a cardiac episode, suing the physician because he certified that her dead husband was "fit to cruise."  As to the cruise lines, while they may have our best interests at heart, they will likely end up in court defending a form that would appear to discriminate on the basis of age....not to mention possible violations of the ADA!    And also consider that several respected physician/experts have said that "nobody over 70 should be on a cruise ship.  In fact, I heard one well known expert question the sanity of anyone who would go on a cruise ship!

 

Hank

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1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

I think you might be a little naïve when it comes to Standards of Medical Practice.  While a physician can and does routine physicals and can certainly screen for obvious anomalies,  most family physicians would be crazy to sign a form saying somebody over seventy is free of heart, lung, liver or kidney, disase.  At the very least I know my physician, who laughed when I told him about the form, would want to do a ECG, Echo Cardiogram, ultra sound testing of the carotids, Aortic screening with ultra sound, etc.  None of this is routine, would cost Medicare thousands of dollars, take weeks to arrange and would cause the physician some grief when dealing with insurance companies who would certainly question the medical necessity of such tests.

 

The problem is that while some physicians would simply sign the form, many others would see it as an open ended liability issue and want no part of that certification.  Consider a physician that says somebody is "fit to cruise," and that person suffers a stroke or cardiac episode on the cruise that cost the cruise line a lot of money because they must deviate to get the passenger to the nearest port.  Could the cruise line then sue the physician?   Or how about the newly minted widow, whose husband dies from a cardiac episode, suing the physician because he certified that her dead husband was "fit to cruise."  As to the cruise lines, while they may have our best interests at heart, they will likely end up in court defending a form that would appear to discriminate on the basis of age....not to mention possible violations of the ADA!    And also consider that several respected physician/experts have said that "nobody over 70 should be on a cruise ship.  In fact, I heard one well known expert question the sanity of anyone who would go on a cruise ship!

 

Hank

A doctor can only sign if the person has not be diagnosed with an illiness.  If a person has not been diagnosed with heart disease and dies on a cruise, I seriously doubt the cruise line would sue the doctor.

 

I think the reason for the letter was to make older people think about cruising with a comprimised system and is a safety net if a passenger dies from the virus onboard and has a comprimised system and then the family tries to sue NCL.

 

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this, but it is great that we can both voice our opinions.

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On 3/15/2020 at 8:11 AM, njhorseman said:

Under the laws of what country? With ships flagged in places like the Bahamas and Panama I doubt that's an issue. It took a ruling of the US Supreme Court a few years back just to force foreign flagged ships to make minimal accommodations for disabled passengers. Further I'd question whether courts would consider a step taken to protect the health of passengers as being discriminatory.

 

I would have agreed with those who are guessing that no Doc would sign the form.  However, on other threads about this same subject, folks who have actually visited their Doc have received a sign-off.  So, I suppose the only way to know is to ask your physician.   

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22 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

A doctor can only sign if the person has not be diagnosed with an illiness.  If a person has not been diagnosed with heart disease and dies on a cruise, I seriously doubt the cruise line would sue the doctor.

 

I think the reason for the letter was to make older people think about cruising with a comprimised system and is a safety net if a passenger dies from the virus onboard and has a comprimised system and then the family tries to sue NCL.

 

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this, but it is great that we can both voice our opinions.

It's not so much a question of the cruise line suing the doctor, more likely one of the patient suing the doctor for advising him that he was fit to cruise

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16 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

It's not so much a question of the cruise line suing the doctor, more likely one of the patient suing the doctor for advising him that he was fit to cruise

I think NCL is trying to protect themselves and to keep at risk passengers from cruising with them.  If a passenger would sue their doctor, that is between the patient and doctor and has nothing to do with NCl.

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The medical letter for over 70s is the bright idea of CLIA (Cruise Lines International Association).  The industry proposed it to Pence back on March 11 to show that they had taken enhanced procedures as the coronovirus was starting to escalate.  NCL was the first cruise line to  implement it.  It's cya that was not thought out too well for all of the reasons stated above.

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We can guess all day about why the form is being requested, or whether a Doc will sign, or who will bring suit.   

 

I just hope folks don't pretend that our getting up there age-wise isn't putting us more at risk.   If your Doc says you shouldn't go, then don't go.

 

Everyone stay well.     

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20 minutes ago, BlueRiband said:

The medical letter for over 70s is the bright idea of CLIA (Cruise Lines International Association).  The industry proposed it to Pence back on March 11 to show that they had taken enhanced procedures as the coronovirus was starting to escalate.  NCL was the first cruise line to  implement it.  It's cya that was not thought out too well for all of the reasons stated above.


Yep, CYA. Plus they’ll use The White House OK to grab bailout money. They’re “foreign” companies when it come to dodging requirements for accommodation and dodge lawsuits. But good ol’ ‘muricans when it comes to bail outs.

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33 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I think NCL is trying to protect themselves and to keep at risk passengers from cruising with them.  If a passenger would sue their doctor, that is between the patient and doctor and has nothing to do with NCl.

Of course - NCL wants to protect themselves - but so do doctors, and that is why I strongly doubt many doctors would sign them.  

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28 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course - NCL wants to protect themselves - but so do doctors, and that is why I strongly doubt many doctors would sign them.  

This liability can be waved by including a qualification  ( I certify as of this date____________ that______________ is fit to cruise)                                                                                                                                                   ________________________________MD

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On 3/22/2020 at 1:11 PM, BlueRiband said:

The medical letter for over 70s is the bright idea of CLIA (Cruise Lines International Association).  The industry proposed it to Pence back on March 11 to show that they had taken enhanced procedures as the coronovirus was starting to escalate.  NCL was the first cruise line to  implement it.  It's cya that was not thought out too well for all of the reasons stated above.

 

Yes, this stupid letter was an attempt to appease the govt so they wouldn't shut the cruise lines down.  It didn't work, obviously, since the lines have all been forced to shut down anyway. (Their statements all claim it was "voluntary". Yeah, like someone "voluntarily" resigns when given a choice between resigning and being fired.)

 

I'm sure when they start sailing again there will be no more talk about having your doctor sign any form!

 

kathy

 

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Just change the wording to say:

 

No known illness....

 

No evidence of any illness.......

 

I maintain both FAA and SCCA medical clearances (flying and road racing).

 

The SCCA form says "Medical history and examination approved
Applicant is fit for motor racing."    My doctors have had no problem in signing this.

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On 3/14/2020 at 7:43 PM, njhorseman said:

And that's why I think the wording was intentional. Cruise lines realized that few if any physicians would sign something like that so it became a convenient tool to keep the most COVID-19 vulnerable group off cruise ships until the crisis passed.

That's the bulk of off-season cruisers.

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On 3/15/2020 at 10:45 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

Where's the ACLU when you need it?

 

They are probably working from home like the rest of us.........

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