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RCI bankruptcy possibility - deposits and FCCs


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8 minutes ago, in rod we trust said:

thanks but no thanks   and hopefully rci collapse , ill buy one of there boats and use it as a on the water rental appartments for the uni students 

 

 

Yarra Bay would certainly be a good location to berth that.

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Just now, ONECRUISER said:

Separately, the company said it has notified its lenders that it will fully draw on its facility agreement, as it borrow about $3 billion under the agreement for six months in order to boost its cash position. "

 

So Carnival believe they'll need $3 billion to tide them over, whereas RCL have $500 million available to them. Quite a difference in capacity to service there.

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4 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

So Carnival believe they'll need $3 billion to tide them over, whereas RCL have $500 million available to them. Quite a difference in capacity to ser'vice there.

Royal doesn't need as much, they have all those Deposits/FCC...inc about $3500 in my Deposits 🤑

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18 minutes ago, in rod we trust said:

thanks but no thanks   and hopefully rci collapse , ill buy one of there boats and use it as a on the water rental appartments for the uni students 

 

Come on ,your country men are feeling a bit down.
 Cheer us up.

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16 hours ago, npcl said:

However, those spins offs are mostly in tourist areas, Florida, LA, SFO, Seattle.  The industry could go away and the tourist industry in those areas would still remain.  Maybe a bit slower, with hotel prices a bit cheaper (primarily in southern florida) but would not be death of the tourist industry in those areas.  As much as the CLIA tries to make a build up their numbers.


The cruise industry could disappear from those San Francisco and Seattle and it wouldn't even blip the economy.   It would be most noticeable at Port Canaveral, but even the Sate of Florida learned from the last downturn and has diversified it's economy so it is no longer as reliant on tourism as it was in the past.

Keep in mind that when you see the number of employees for any cruise company, over 95% of them are crew who are not Americans and pay no taxes to the US government.

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On 3/15/2020 at 9:22 PM, hal2008 said:

Cruise line industry adopting US laws is actually viable (just look at the case of NCL in Hawaii with POA) but unlikely to happen. 

 

I think viable is to strong a word.  I was going to say possible, but I think the ship has to be built in the United States.  So they just can't convert to US citizens as crew.  The reason why I think this is that rules were stretched  almost to the breaking point to declare the ship as US built.

 

 NCL was going to have second ship working under US labor laws, etc.  But they had trouble staffing the first one so they abandon the second effort.

 

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8 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

 

So Carnival believe they'll need $3 billion to tide them over, whereas RCL have $500 million available to them. Quite a difference in capacity to service there.

no way 3 billion is going to be enough. ccl has 9 billion in current liabilities

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2 hours ago, gatour said:

 NCL was going to have second ship working under US labor laws, etc.  But they had trouble staffing the first one so they abandon the second effort.

 

NCL actually had three ships sailing under the US flag for awhile in Hawaii.  It was a disaster for them. Reviews were horrible as they were stretched not only to fill with passengers, but with enough US workers who were willing to work under normal cruise ship conditions.  We did the Pride of America a couple of years after they went back to just one US commissioned ship in Hawaii.  The captain invited all of the Cruise Critic Roll Call people to not only a Meet & Mingle at the beginning of the cruise but a follow up meeting at the end to give us our personal reviews.  He was working to build up the reputation of the ship once again after the other two ships departed.  He explained to all of us the difficulties and requirements of working under the US flag.  We were very impressed.  

 

BTW, it was a great cruise.  We all gave a thumbs up.  The crew was lovely, but they are hard to find when 80% of the crew needs to be US citizens.  

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16 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

 

So Carnival believe they'll need $3 billion to tide them over, whereas RCL have $500 million available to them. Quite a difference in capacity to service there.

No that is not what they believe, it is what they have access to.  CCL has already drawn down their 3 billion.

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Cruising is kind of a "habit" for many people.  We plan and look forward to that spring cruise or December cruise or whatever.  It costs money: ship, hotel, maybe air fare, etc.  Right now, a lot of people are going to be "forced" to break a habit, whether it is dinner out every Friday, a movie theater every Saturday, a cruise every year, etc.   Once people have the extra money they are not spending on theses habits, they are either going to learn to spend it on something else, or seriously start thinking do they want to spend it again on the "habit" when the opportunity arises.

 

RCCL canceled my cruise, and I am hoping I can get my refund when the time comes.  I am more concerned about Delta having $3,600 of my money that I paid for 8 RT tickets to our cruise.  They are currently offering me etickets I can use any time through the end of December.  That is somewhat generous in normal times, but now I need the money.  Our family will not be using those tickets to travel the rest of the year.  And now we are hearing of a "bail out" with our tax money for the airlines, who took a lot of the "windfall" they received in the tax cuts of 2 years ago to do stock buy backs.  Flying is not a very pleasant experience, unless you are up front in first class.  I usually enjoy a cruise, but not the flight to get there.  That makes it somewhat easier to break the habit of cruising for me.

 

 

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My take on the airlines. Bail out the few that did not gouge their passengers with baggage fees. The remaining ones should of saved the baggage fees for a rainy day and are on their own to survive.

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3 hours ago, coaster said:

My take on the airlines. Bail out the few that did not gouge their passengers with baggage fees. The remaining ones should of saved the baggage fees for a rainy day and are on their own to survive.

No joke - they made billions dollars on add on such as luggage this past year. I have less sympathy for airlines as they pry on the vulnerable (watch people repack and remove things they need from the luggage). But, Big But, we need them. Cruises are luxury - As much as we Iove them,  we need to think about what people need and what suffering will come out of this situation. 

 

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I want to do what I can to support Royal Caribbean right now as I’ve been loyal to them for many years and will continue to be in the future. That said, I am very nervous about all of the money we have tied up in drink packages and excursions for my 8/30 Liberty sailing. I just canceled everything other than the booking since the idea of losing that much money in the event they declare bankruptcy is just too stressful. I’ll be so glad when this behind us and we can (hopefully) get back to normal!

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The Bank of America analysts have confidence in RCI management, but do feel that this is going to be a long recovery period.

 

By BofA's assessment, demand could take several years to recover. Net yields took three years to return to pre-Sept. 11 levels and about eight years to return to pre-Great Recession levels, he said. 

 

“We believe the net yield recovery could be even longer following this outbreak given its core baby boomer demographic has been most impacted,” Didora said. “While repeat cruisers (~65% of passengers) could return to cruising once the outbreak is over, we see a long tail on regaining the trust of the new-to-cruise customer base.”

 

Royal Caribbean is expected to shoulder a greater burden than its peers, and the analyst said the company should suspend its dividend to ensure liquidity.

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3 hours ago, Host Anne said:

Check out the cruise industry's economic impact on the USA....imagine if it went away....

 

https://cruising.org/news-and-research/press-room/2019/november/cruise-industry-contributes-nearly-53-billion-to-us-economy-in-2018

Yes, 13MM passengers worldwide but just in Orlando WDW, Universal and Sea World had 35MM visitors.  Can industry really be responsible for over 400k US jobs?  US onshore spending claim of $24B works out to almost $2k per WORLDWIDE passenger.

Consider the source - cruise trade association. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Stick93 said:

No joke - they made billions dollars on add on such as luggage this past year. I have less sympathy for airlines as they pry on the vulnerable (watch people repack and remove things they need from the luggage). But, Big But, we need them. Cruises are luxury - As much as we Iove them,  we need to think about what people need and what suffering will come out of this situation. 

 

The islands need the cruise ships too- it will go back to poverty and crime otherwise.

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3 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Yes, 13MM passengers worldwide but just in Orlando WDW, Universal and Sea World had 35MM visitors.  Can industry really be responsible for over 400k US jobs?  US onshore spending claim of $24B works out to almost $2k per WORLDWIDE passenger.

Consider the source - cruise trade association. 

 

 

 

Very true - plus moreover priorities. The Hotel Association alone wants a handout of $500 billion - which is 10x the reported contribution above. They are more important/necessary to the US economy and obviously have a greater contribution. And you can't just hand out funds to everyone.

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I want to do what I can to support Royal Caribbean right now as I’ve been loyal to them for many years and will continue to be in the future. That said, I am very nervous about all of the money we have tied up in drink packages and excursions for my 8/30 Liberty sailing. I just canceled everything other than the booking since the idea of losing that much money in the event they declare bankruptcy is just too stressful. I’ll be so glad when this behind us and we can (hopefully) get back to normal!

It’s a business . Unfortunately I don’t believe the loyalty will be returned


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10 hours ago, CruiseGirl4ever said:

I want to do what I can to support Royal Caribbean right now as I’ve been loyal to them for many years and will continue to be in the future. That said, I am very nervous about all of the money we have tied up in drink packages and excursions for my 8/30 Liberty sailing. I just canceled everything other than the booking since the idea of losing that much money in the event they declare bankruptcy is just too stressful. I’ll be so glad when this behind us and we can (hopefully) get back to normal!

You have credit card protection by law

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