Ponant Suspends Operations

[Bamboo99]

jland is right. And Ponant even claims to have a "Zero Impact Landing Protocol". But, like elsewhere in the Ponant operation, it remains to be seen, whether they abide to their own rules... 

[schnapperin]

Of course I didn’t want so say thats what they should do but only that the canadian government is offering that clause (which surprise me because they could simply not allow it but then maybe its an issue that fees need to be paid back)

 

during my Antarctica trip last Nov/Dec Ponant seem to have tried their best to limit the impact on nature & sea .

[jonikal]

Small ship exceptions:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5266/?et_cid=3325808&et_rid=24350260&et_referrer=NULL

[schnapperin]

not sure if that would be economic smart to limit the passengers to 50 % since crew is around 120-135 - which would only leave 120 passengers on board 

[resistk]

Seriously?  Who is going on a cruise and where to?  Chinese river cruises will likely open up first, any takers?

[jonikal]

5 minutes ago, resistk said:

Seriously?  Who is going on a cruise and where to?  Chinese river cruises will likely open up first, any takers?

 

Yeah, right.  What's second prize?

[resistk]

1 hour ago, jonikal said:

 

Yeah, right.  What's second prize?

 

Sigh, maybe I can use those FCCs in 2021. A 10K unsecured interest free loan to Ponant.

[MrRandal]

On 4/14/2020 at 5:35 PM, jland said:

 

ParisChris is correct, nobody should expect to be personally contact about a cruise which is months away but I think we all deserve to be treated with consideration. All Ponant have to do is update their list of cancelled cruises, this would allow people chance to  cancel air tickets, hotels, tours etc not to much to ask surely.

 

Our cruise with Cunard was cancelled March 26th took the full refund offered. Do not expect to see the money for months but we will get it eventually, that is all we ask. 

 

I cancelled a 13 day Viking Med cruise scheduled for Oct 2020 two weeks ago. I had 100% of the money I had paid Viking, which was 100% of the price, over $18,000 refunded to my AMEX within 48 hours. I have a $3600 deposit with Paul Gauguin/Ponant for an 11 day French Polynesia cruise in Sept 2021. I can't get my deposit back if I cancelled today, over a year before our cruise. From what I can tell, Ponant is at the back of the line when it comes to handling customers concerns, and it is inconceivable to me that they will not refund money to people when Ponant was the one who cancelled the cruise, no matter the reason. I signed a contract with Paul Gauguin before they were acquired by Ponant, they took my money, and now, under their new Ponant ownership, they have changed their policy. This is not acceptable. They have taken on an air of typical French arrogance "Let them eat cake". 

[jland]

1 hour ago, MrRandal said:

 

I cancelled a 13 day Viking Med cruise scheduled for Oct 2020 two weeks ago. I had 100% of the money I had paid Viking, which was 100% of the price, over $18,000 refunded to my AMEX within 48 hours. I have a $3600 deposit with Paul Gauguin/Ponant for an 11 day French Polynesia cruise in Sept 2021. I can't get my deposit back if I cancelled today, over a year before our cruise. From what I can tell, Ponant is at the back of the line when it comes to handling customers concerns, and it is inconceivable to me that they will not refund money to people when Ponant was the one who cancelled the cruise, no matter the reason. I signed a contract with Paul Gauguin before they were acquired by Ponant, they took my money, and now, under their new Ponant ownership, they have changed their policy. This is not acceptable. They have taken on an air of typical French arrogance "Let them eat cake". 

MrRandal you do not say what country you reside in but in Australia the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) have stated that terms on your policy when you paid for a cruise, or anything else come to that, cannot be altered unless the new terms benefit the consumer. Ponant seem to think their rules apply with no consideration given to individual countries consumer laws. You are correct I think it is French arrogance blinding them to the damage they are doing to their brand.

i have been on one Viking cruise, really enjoyed it but not my favourite cruise line. I will give credit where it is due, they were among the first to cancel all their cruises up until June 30th, I believe, and their refund policy is superb if you got your money in 48 hours. Take my hat off to them and will give them another go. Never give Ponant another go, I do not deal with companies who expect me to give them an unsecured loan.

[Bamboo99]

Viking shows that there is also a cultivated, civilized way to conduct business. Ponant, unfortunately, does not fall into this category. Their conduct of business seems to be shady, especially when it comes to the fine print in their conditions: When I booked it was stated in the brochure I booked from, that the (customer friendy) German consumer laws are applicable, but then, when I got the travel documents, two weeks before the cruise, this has been changed to French law being applicable. This is not only French arrogance but shady conduct of business. The German consumer protection body has also published this matter on their website (unfortunately only in German) and their specialised lawyer is looking into the case as we speak.

[directionfinder]

3 hours ago, Bamboo99 said:

Viking shows that there is also a cultivated, civilized way to conduct business. Ponant, unfortunately, does not fall into this category. Their conduct of business seems to be shady, especially when it comes to the fine print in their conditions: When I booked it was stated in the brochure I booked from, that the (customer friendy) German consumer laws are applicable, but then, when I got the travel documents, two weeks before the cruise, this has been changed to French law being applicable. This is not only French arrogance but shady conduct of business. The German consumer protection body has also published this matter on their website (unfortunately only in German) and their specialised lawyer is looking into the case as we speak.

So, you booked the trip in Germany? And then they changed to the french law, when you tried to cancel?

[Bamboo99]

I‘m subscribed to their brochures in German. I booked, as I did before, over the Ponant website. In the past I was then handled by their German Office in Hamburg. This time it was anonymous internet-handling, with the end result that the tickets arrived in a jacket on which it was stated that French law was applicable. Only when things went terribly wrong on the cruise and they did not reply to any of my communications for months and I finally wanted to start legal procedures, this was pointed out to me my legal advisor. 

[resistk]

I have read my Ponant contract carefully, it says I can have my refund if they cancel and French law applies.  It  quotes some French law but nothing relevant to this issue.  So while they can claim they fall under French law; they have yet to produce the text of the actual French law that allows them to unilaterally change contracts as they please.  If this law actually existed - where is it?  Does this "law" only apply to people who don't speak French?  I doubt the French tourist would put up with such a nonconsumer friendly law.  I think we are being hoaxed.  If the law exists it is in the French Tourism Code.  Based on this synopsis it is Ponant who is violating the law:

 

https://www.vacancesbleues.fr/en/french-tourism-code-law

 

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074073&dateTexte=&categorieLien=cid

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by resistk

[MrRandal]

53 minutes ago, resistk said:

I have read my Ponant contract carefully, it says I can have my refund if they cancel and French law applies.  It  quotes some French law but nothing relevant to this issue.  So while they can claim they fall under French law; they have yet to produce the text of the actual French law that allows them to unilaterally change contracts as they please.  If this law actually existed - where is it?  Does this "law" only apply to people who don't speak French?  I doubt the French tourist would put up with such a nonconsumer friendly law.  I think we are being hoaxed.  If the law exists it is in the French Tourism Code.  Based on this synopsis it is Ponant who is violating the law:

 

https://www.vacancesbleues.fr/en/french-tourism-code-law

 

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006074073&dateTexte=&categorieLien=cid

 

 

 

Yes, it appears Ponant is simply making up their own laws, according to: 

 

"The French Tourism Code - Law"

 

"Travellers may cancel the contract without having to pay cancellation fees, but receiving a full refund of all monies paid, if a significant change is made to an essential component of the contract, other than price. If the professional responsible for the service cancels it before it begins, travellers are entitled to a refund and to compensation, if applicable.

Travellers may cancel the contract without having to pay cancellation fees before the service begins and under exceptional circumstances, e.g. if there are serious safety issues at the destination which could affect the journey.

Furthermore, travelers may cancel the contract at any time prior to the start of the journey, subject to the payment of appropriate and justifiable cancellation fees."

[MrRandal]

10 hours ago, MrRandal said:

 

Yes, it appears Ponant is simply making up their own laws, according to: 

 

"The French Tourism Code - Law"

 

"Travellers may cancel the contract without having to pay cancellation fees, but receiving a full refund of all monies paid, if a significant change is made to an essential component of the contract, other than price. If the professional responsible for the service cancels it before it begins, travellers are entitled to a refund and to compensation, if applicable.

Travellers may cancel the contract without having to pay cancellation fees before the service begins and under exceptional circumstances, e.g. if there are serious safety issues at the destination which could affect the journey.

Furthermore, travelers may cancel the contract at any time prior to the start of the journey, subject to the payment of appropriate and justifiable cancellation fees."

 

Well, Ponant is not making up their own laws, the French Government is doing it for them, my bad:

 

From a friend:

 

The French government enacted new provisions to the French Tourism Code on March 25th. Originally Article L211-14 of the tourism code required customers to receive refunds if the travel is cancelled by the travel company. The new provisions concern cancellations effective between March 1 and September 15 and allow them to offer credit valid for eighteen months instead of a refund. At the end of the 18 month period, if the credit has not been used, or if it has only been party used, the customer will be entitled to demand reimbursement.

[directionfinder]

4 hours ago, MrRandal said:

 

Well, Ponant is not making up their own laws, the French Government is doing it for them, my bad:

 

From a friend:

 

The French government enacted new provisions to the French Tourism Code on March 25th. Originally Article L211-14 of the tourism code required customers to receive refunds if the travel is cancelled by the travel company. The new provisions concern cancellations effective between March 1 and September 15 and allow them to offer credit valid for eighteen months instead of a refund. At the end of the 18 month period, if the credit has not been used, or if it has only been party used, the customer will be entitled to demand reimbursement.

I wonder if this is already valid! Germany wants to do the same, but it is a EU regulation and the EU comission has not agreed to it as far as I know. 

[directionfinder]

18 hours ago, Bamboo99 said:

I‘m subscribed to their brochures in German. I booked, as I did before, over the Ponant website. In the past I was then handled by their German Office in Hamburg. This time it was anonymous internet-handling, with the end result that the tickets arrived in a jacket on which it was stated that French law was applicable. Only when things went terribly wrong on the cruise and they did not reply to any of my communications for months and I finally wanted to start legal procedures, this was pointed out to me my legal advisor. 

Very interesting! Did you get a "Reisesicherungsschein" , Travel insurance certificate with you booking?

[directionfinder]

On 4/20/2020 at 7:59 AM, MrRandal said:

 

I cancelled a 13 day Viking Med cruise scheduled for Oct 2020 two weeks ago. I had 100% of the money I had paid Viking, which was 100% of the price, over $18,000 refunded to my AMEX within 48 hours. I have a $3600 deposit with Paul Gauguin/Ponant for an 11 day French Polynesia cruise in Sept 2021. I can't get my deposit back if I cancelled today, over a year before our cruise. From what I can tell, Ponant is at the back of the line when it comes to handling customers concerns, and it is inconceivable to me that they will not refund money to people when Ponant was the one who cancelled the cruise, no matter the reason. I signed a contract with Paul Gauguin before they were acquired by Ponant, they took my money, and now, under their new Ponant ownership, they have changed their policy. This is not acceptable. They have taken on an air of typical French arrogance "Let them eat cake". 

Your cruise is in Sept 2021, I don't know from which country you book, but if I look at the terms and conditions for Australia it says up to 365 days prior departure cancel fee is 250 AUD, and his is the rule in some other countries also. In Germany it is 300 € up to 210 days.

[schnapperin]

I booked last year via a travel agency in Germany (since they offered an additional 500 € cash back) and got a “Sicherungsschein” 

[resistk]

21 hours ago, MrRandal said:

 

Well, Ponant is not making up their own laws, the French Government is doing it for them, my bad:

 

From a friend:

 

The French government enacted new provisions to the French Tourism Code on March 25th. Originally Article L211-14 of the tourism code required customers to receive refunds if the travel is cancelled by the travel company. The new provisions concern cancellations effective between March 1 and September 15 and allow them to offer credit valid for eighteen months instead of a refund. At the end of the 18 month period, if the credit has not been used, or if it has only been party used, the customer will be entitled to demand reimbursement.

 

I paid Ponant USA LLC, a Delaware Corp. My money went to a US company.  Additionally Ponant has never notified anyone about this law which was my original point. 

[resistk]

21 minutes ago, resistk said:

 

I paid Ponant USA LLC, a Delaware Corp. My money went to a US company.  Additionally Ponant has never notified anyone about this law which was my original point. 

 

I don't think the new law will apply, there are many exemptions for anything regulated under EU law for example like air, ferry, and train travel.  The law seems aimed at the domestic French tourism industry. The law makes no mention of cruise ships operating in international waters, I think this is why Ponant is not referencing this law, it may not apply:

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.60millions-mag.com%2F2020%2F03%2F26%2Fsejours-annules-pas-de-remboursements-mais-des-avoirs-17321

[MrRandal]

4 hours ago, resistk said:

 

I paid Ponant USA LLC, a Delaware Corp. My money went to a US company.  Additionally Ponant has never notified anyone about this law which was my original point. 

 

I'm just curious if your Passenger contract states that it is governed by the laws of the United States, or of France.

 

I paid my deposit in U.S. dollars to Paul Gauguin Cruises of Bellevue, Washington, US headquarters for Paul Gauguin Cruises, although I'm not certain at this point if they are incorporated in the U.S., but my passenger contract states it is governed by French law, and any legal issues are to be argued in French Polynesian courts.

[resistk]

6 hours ago, MrRandal said:

 

I'm just curious if your Passenger contract states that it is governed by the laws of the United States, or of France.

 

I paid my deposit in U.S. dollars to Paul Gauguin Cruises of Bellevue, Washington, US headquarters for Paul Gauguin Cruises, although I'm not certain at this point if they are incorporated in the U.S., but my passenger contract states it is governed by French law, and any legal issues are to be argued in French Polynesian courts.

 

My payment was to the US LLC but it says French law applies HOWEVER they do not state which French laws.  I do not think this would be considered valid in the United States.  Ponant has been sued over this before in the USA.

 

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/14883202/1/jones-v-ponant-usa-llc/

 

[jonikal]

1 hour ago, resistk said:

 

My payment was to the US LLC but it says French law applies HOWEVER they do not state which French laws.  I do not think this would be considered valid in the United States.  Ponant has been sued over this before in the USA.

 

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/14883202/1/jones-v-ponant-usa-llc/

 

It would be interesting to know how this case was handled.  The cavalier attitude and outright deceipt by the Ponant officers, as presented in the case, is truly breathtaking.

[schnapperin]

30 minutes ago, jonikal said:

It would be interesting to know how this case was handled.  The cavalier attitude and outright deceipt by the Ponant officers, as presented in the case, is truly breathtaking.

If you check the case you can see that so far there was no decision because Ponant filled that it falls into the jurisdiction of a foreign court as far as I understand.