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Carnival can survive?

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Can Carnival survive or do you think they are going to go bankrupt? Their stock is just a little over $9.00 this morning and I heard yesterday they just took out a 2 BILLION loan to help them for the next few months.

 

Also, should a company that registers its ship out of America so they don't have to pay taxes to the US get government support in the form of  a bailout?

 

And finally will you go back to cruising ASAP?

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Great question about the bailout and starting a great debate. I'm guessing the US government would classify it under " foreign aid". Is it right , at this point in time what is?

 

I've seen things on social media ( from a classmate of mine who worked in the auto industry) that HE was opposed to a bailout of a certain corp.

 

Must have forgotten that he benefited from the auto industry bailout years ago.

 

As a nation its imperative that we get the economy going in a positive direction ASAP with any means possible.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, paulgraff said:

Can Carnival survive or do you think they are going to go bankrupt? Their stock is just a little over $9.00 this morning and I heard yesterday they just took out a 2 BILLION loan to help them for the next few months.

 

Also, should a company that registers its ship out of America so they don't have to pay taxes to the US get government support in the form of  a bailout?

 

And finally will you go back to cruising ASAP?

 

I don't think anyone can predict whether or not they will go bankrupt. Also heard about the loan. I'm sure there are plenty of companies in this same situation right now, maybe not as large a scale. I do believe they are entitled, they probably do pay a good bit of tax in the US, what about port taxes, payroll taxes, all those things? I personally would rather see them get bailouts than the airlines since I don't fly. I'm close to 5 ports in Florida so flying isn't important for me.  Cruising is important to me and certainly many others.

 

i had a cruise booked for March 21 which was cancelled by Carnival, not me. I would have gone regardless. Anyway, on the 16th, I rebooked the same cruise for May 9th, so yes, I'm ready to get back to cruising!

Edited by Bostwick girl
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Sad and depressing.

This is not just 'economic contraction' -it's going to be a lot worse than that.

 

MOSTunusual.jpg

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I posted this elsewhere, but the subject of the article seems to fit the topic of this thread...interesting reading about the investment opportunity (or not) in the 3 major cruise lines here in the USA...

 

Garnett

 

https://investorplace.com/2020/03/3-cruise-line-stocks-that-have-been-crushed-by-the-coronavirus/?mod=mw_quote_news

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I'm ready to cruise  at any time. I have the Legend booked out of NYC in May and the Pride out of Baltimore in November.  Only way I am not going is if Carnival cancels it. 

 

Karen

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18 minutes ago, yogibear said:

I'm ready to cruise  at any time. I have the Legend booked out of NYC in May and the Pride out of Baltimore in November.  Only way I am not going is if Carnival cancels it. 

 

Karen

I’m on the first cruise when back in service, April 11 on the Magic. My hubby and I booked it, as the second leg of our B2B, over 2 years ago, as our 50th anniversary celebration. The April 5 leg was cancelled. We took the 100% FCC plus $600 OBC that I will apply towards a Journey cruise in January. But we are terrified to be on that April 11 cruise, but can’t risk losing around 50% of money. We are senior citizens, so they consider us in that high risk group, but we are healthy. My hubby has to go see our MD for the Fit To Cruise letter, but we are afraid she will 1) tell us it’s too dangerous and not issue it, or 2) cancel appointment outright, as she’s only seeing acutely ill patients. I just heard from someone on our roll call, that crew on a Royal ship, who originally were told they would remain on ship for the 30 days, are being sent home to their countries, and they would notify them when the cruise line returns to service. That makes us wonder if they are all considering a longer pause in service.

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Posted (edited)

Will they survive?  I have no idea how high finance works.  I own stock in CCL, but the stock market is another person's game.

 

Do they deserve bailout money?  I'm sure their home ports want them to, as well as the ports they stop.  Privatizing profit and socializing risk seems to be baked into the system now.

 

Will I be back?  I have two booked, the Miracle in November 2020 and the Mardi Gras November 2021--which might end up being its maiden voyage.  (That last bit is a dark humor joke, not a rumor.). I would like to book another for February 2021, but I'm waiting to see the specials.

Edited by naxer
clarity

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1 hour ago, paulgraff said:

Can Carnival survive or do you think they are going to go bankrupt? Their stock is just a little over $9.00 this morning and I heard yesterday they just took out a 2 BILLION loan to help them for the next few months.

 

Also, should a company that registers its ship out of America so they don't have to pay taxes to the US get government support in the form of  a bailout?

 

And finally will you go back to cruising ASAP?

Ships are registered out of the US due US laws. Not built here? Can't be registered here. The ships must be built in the US to be flagged US.

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They shouldn't bail them out, they've avoided taxes and not hired US citizens for years. There is no compelling interest to keep vacations within reach of the general population.

 

I think Carnival should split the brand up between its larger and newer ships and its older ships and try to differentiate products a little more. If possible, they should also add some more capacity in the smaller ports like Baltimore, Charleston etc. Those places always had some of the highest prices.

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47 minutes ago, Bookbug53 said:

Ships are registered out of the US due US laws. Not built here? Can't be registered here. The ships must be built in the US to be flagged US.

Interesting.  I thought ships are foreign flagged to avoid U.S. taxes and occupations laws.

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1 hour ago, grandmarnnurse said:

I’m on the first cruise when back in service, April 11 on the Magic. My hubby and I booked it, as the second leg of our B2B, over 2 years ago, as our 50th anniversary celebration. The April 5 leg was cancelled. We took the 100% FCC plus $600 OBC that I will apply towards a Journey cruise in January. But we are terrified to be on that April 11 cruise, but can’t risk losing around 50% of money. We are senior citizens, so they consider us in that high risk group, but we are healthy. My hubby has to go see our MD for the Fit To Cruise letter, but we are afraid she will 1) tell us it’s too dangerous and not issue it, or 2) cancel appointment outright, as she’s only seeing acutely ill patients. I just heard from someone on our roll call, that crew on a Royal ship, who originally were told they would remain on ship for the 30 days, are being sent home to their countries, and they would notify them when the cruise line returns to service. That makes us wonder if they are all considering a longer pause in service.

I

With so much of the country and so many ports on lockdown and businesses closed I don't see how cruises could start up again for at least a month after the virus peaks....and who knows how long on that will be. I tend to be optimistic by nature but wondered when cruises were halted why it wasn't at least late May.  

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22 minutes ago, lottiegreen56 said:

They shouldn't bail them out, they've avoided taxes and not hired US citizens for years. There is no compelling interest to keep vacations within reach of the general population.

 

I think Carnival should split the brand up between its larger and newer ships and its older ships and try to differentiate products a little more. If possible, they should also add some more capacity in the smaller ports like Baltimore, Charleston etc. Those places always had some of the highest prices.


There are plenty of US citizens working on Carnival ships. 
 

Also, I believe all of the port cities would vehemently argue with you that there is a compelling reason to keep the ships going out of there. 
 

It’s a sticky issue without easy answers. 

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1 hour ago, Bookbug53 said:

Ships are registered out of the US due US laws. Not built here? Can't be registered here. The ships must be built in the US to be flagged US.

Was the Pride of America built here in the U.S? It is flagged US.

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Since our government asked the cruise companies to stop operating, the chances are high they will bail them out to some extent.  I have complete confidence that CCL will survive, but that is a personal opinion.  They are a great company with a great product.  

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2 hours ago, grandmarnnurse said:

I’m on the first cruise when back in service, April 11 on the Magic. My hubby and I booked it, as the second leg of our B2B, over 2 years ago, as our 50th anniversary celebration. The April 5 leg was cancelled. We took the 100% FCC plus $600 OBC that I will apply towards a Journey cruise in January. But we are terrified to be on that April 11 cruise, but can’t risk losing around 50% of money. We are senior citizens, so they consider us in that high risk group, but we are healthy. My hubby has to go see our MD for the Fit To Cruise letter, but we are afraid she will 1) tell us it’s too dangerous and not issue it, or 2) cancel appointment outright, as she’s only seeing acutely ill patients. I just heard from someone on our roll call, that crew on a Royal ship, who originally were told they would remain on ship for the 30 days, are being sent home to their countries, and they would notify them when the cruise line returns to service. That makes us wonder if they are all considering a longer pause in service.

You should have received a letter from Carnival re: both your April cruises about being eligible to be cancelled and given a 100% FCC to be used in the next year. The letter states you have until March 31st to cancel. It's the letter that offered you OBC if you continue with your booking. I got letters for both our March cruise (that I canceled) and our April 11th cruise (that I probably will cancel). I applied the OBC from the March cruise to one I had already booked for October. 

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I think if any of the cruise line survive it will be Carnival since they have the most ships and the most customers. But none of the cruises will survive if the passengers do not return with their money. In any case I expect as many ships to never cruise again. the older ship will be permanently dock and ships under construction will not be finished.

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Before I learned my lesson, I bought stock in KMart, Lucent tech, Pilgrims Pride, and Vlasic pickles.  That was all I bought. And ALL of them went bankrupt. Three reorganized and are still around, but not my investment. SO, as much as I WANT 100 shares of Carnival Corp. at bargain basement price, I am doing my part and NOT buying so they won't be guaranteed to go out of business. 😉  I no longer buy any stock.  My savings account is on the hoof: cows.  If the price goes down, we'll just eat them instead of selling them.  And the returns are pretty good for the most part. Double after year 3. lol

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3 hours ago, Bostwick girl said:

 

 I personally would rather see them get bailouts than the airlines since I don't fly. I'm close to 5 ports in Florida so flying isn't important for me.  Cruising is important to me and certainly many others.

 

While airlines may not be important to you personally; from an economy standpoint they are essential to american businesses operating in a global economy. Airlines will certainly get a bailout before cruise lines.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, paulgraff said:

Can Carnival survive or do you think they are going to go bankrupt? Their stock is just a little over $9.00 this morning and I heard yesterday they just took out a 2 BILLION loan to help them for the next few months.

 

Also, should a company that registers its ship out of America so they don't have to pay taxes to the US get government support in the form of  a bailout?

 

And finally will you go back to cruising ASAP?

 

I don't think the cruise industry is going anywhere. Not with the numbers Carnival, and others, have been posting in recent years. This will hurt, but they'll survive. Carnival boasted about record profits for 2019 and that wasn't the only time in recent years, so I take issue with companies like that turning to the taxpayer for "bailouts."

 

Airlines are asking for them, too. When gas prices skyrocketed several years back, that's when the airlines started raising prices and coming up with all kinds of new fees & charges, claiming it was to cover higher fuel costs. Those costs have gone down since then, but people are still paying out the ear for fees here and charges there. I do not believe airlines deserve help either. Casinos are asking for it. Give me a break, that's a joke! Casinos make money hand over fist. Multi-billion dollar a year industry. NO, casinos don't need bailed out. And now we have movie theaters asking for it, too. Movie theaters around here are always full and at $15/ticket, plus snacks & drinks, the major movie theater companies aren't hurting. They're big enough to have pushed out or swallowed up most of the independently owned theaters across the country, so they can keep their hands in their own pockets, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I do take issue with these cruise companies sidestepping many American regulations by sailing their ships under foreign flags, then expecting help from the American taxpayer. The government bailouts in years passed have opened Pandora's box. Now they all think they deserve it. With all this said, I'm no economist...just a regular Joe with an opinion.

 

We cruised on the last Horizon cruise before the shut-down. If our cruise had been one week later, and Carnival hadn't shut down, we would've gone. If we happened to have one scheduled following the shut-down, we'd go. As serious of a situation as this pandemic is, I still believe aspects of it are being blown way out of proportion.

Edited by Organized Chaos

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Hope CCL will survive - have a cruise booked for January 2021!

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10 minutes ago, Organized Chaos said:

 

I don't think the cruise industry is going anywhere. Not with the numbers Carnival, and others, have been posting in recent years. This will hurt, but they'll survive. Carnival boasted about record profits for 2019 and that wasn't the only time in recent years, so I take issue with companies like that turning to the taxpayer for "bailouts."

 

Airlines are asking for them, too. When gas prices skyrocketed several years back, that's when the airlines started raising prices and coming up with all kinds of new fees & charges, claiming it was to cover higher fuel costs. Those costs have gone down since then, but people are still paying out the ear for fees here and charges there. I do not believe airlines deserve help either. Casinos are asking for it. Give me a break, that's a joke! Casinos make money hand over fist. Multi-billion dollar a year industry. NO, casinos don't need bailed out. And now we have movie theaters asking for it, too. Movie theaters around here are always full and at $15/ticket, plus snacks & drinks, the major movie theater companies aren't hurting. They're big enough to have pushed out or swallowed up most of the independently owned theaters across the country, so they can keep their hands in their own pockets, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I do take issue with these cruise companies sidestepping many American regulations by sailing their ships under foreign flags, then expecting help from the American taxpayer. The government bailouts in years passed have opened Pandora's box. Now they all think they deserve it. With all this said, I'm no economist...just a regular Joe with an opinion.

 

We cruised on the last Horizon cruise before the shut-down. If our cruise had been one week later, and Carnival hadn't shut down, we would've gone. If we happened to have one scheduled following the shut-down, we'd go. As serious of a situation as this pandemic is, I still believe aspects of it are being blown way out of proportion.

 

Do you have anyone close to you who works in the health care field?  My daughter and son-in-law are RN’s.  Both are telling us it’s bad and will get worse, and are very concerned.  My son-in-law told us yesterday he had to intubate a 9 yr. old........

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1 hour ago, lottiegreen56 said:

They shouldn't bail them out, they've avoided taxes and not hired US citizens for years. There is no compelling interest to keep vacations within reach of the general population.

 

I agree in that I don't think they should be bailed out. I don't think any of these companies who immediately asked for it should get it. Not the ones who have been raking in the money for many years. But in the cruise industry's defense, there's a reason they don't hire U.S. citizens to become most of their crew members. Especially those lower on the ladder. Those crews have to be away from home for several months out of the year. While they do make very good money compared to their home countries, it's not as much when compared to American wages. The cruise industry can't fill their ships with U.S. crew because it would cost them a lot more. And even if they were willing to pay it, it'd still be difficult to get that many U.S. workers to take a job that keeps them away from home for that long every year.

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12 minutes ago, Wombservice said:

Do you have anyone close to you who works in the health care field?  My daughter and son-in-law are RN’s.  Both are telling us it’s bad and will get worse, and are very concerned.  My son-in-law told us yesterday he had to intubate a 9 yr. old........

 

My wife's cousin, an RN, was on the cruise with us last week. Does that count? If you'll notice, I said "aspects of" this situation are being blown out of proportion. I wasn't making light of those who contract the virus. Also, I mean no disrespect to anyone who has it, but intubating a 9 year old child, albeit sad, is not an indicator of the severity of this situation. After all, the hardest hit are those with underdeveloped or weakened immune systems (e.g. children and the elderly).

 

My wife just went to the doctor yesterday because she had a sore throat. As soon as the receptionist learned that she had been out of the country (we just got back from our cruise this past Sunday) she immediately told my wife to put on a mask. Not because of her sore throat, but because of international travel. Mind you, she didn't care about anyone else who came into the office masking up who hadn't traveled. I can perfectly understand the precautions, but we're in a state with over 150 cases. We drove to and from Miami and the states we traveled through have over 500 cases combined. On the flip side, we stopped at four ports of call on our cruise. At the time, two of those islands didn't have any cases and the other two only had three each. We were safer from exposure on the ship and in our ports of call than we are in our own home state, many times over. Yet an uninformed receptionist freaked out and only cared about someone who traveled out of the country. She doesn't have medical training and wasn't instructed to take those actions by the doctor. When the doctor saw my wife, he asked why she had the mask on. She told him his receptionist told her to, told him why she was there, and explained where we had been. He said they barely have coronavirus down there and told her to take the mask off. He also said that, in many instances, this is being exaggerated.

 

The virus is real and the threat of spreading is real, I'm not denying that.

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