Urgent - Ruby Princess 3 people infected - Urgent Tracking of Passengers

[MMDown Under]

1 hour ago, MicCanberra said:

Without the quarantine for everyone, it will still spread.

Unfortunately, there are mixed messages, some people are doing the right thing, others are not or cannot and that means the spread will continue, just at a slower rate.

Eventually, the community will build up an immunity but at what cost, how many deaths are acceptable.

One of the Health Experts got my attention when he said the same number of people will die, whether we flatten the curve or not.  However, if we manage to flatten the curve, we won't overwhelm our hospitals and medical specialits and it will be over a longer period.  I haven't had time to research this yet. 

[Aus Traveller]

2 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

One of the Health Experts got my attention when he said the same number of people will die, whether we flatten the curve or not.  However, if we manage to flatten the curve, we won't overwhelm our hospitals and medical specialits and it will be over a longer period.  I haven't had time to research this yet. 

Yes. This has been the intention. If we don't flatten the curve, a lot of people will die. The good news is that the rate of infections has dropped dramatically. We have to keep it dropping even further.

[Vader1111]

27 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

One of the Health Experts got my attention when he said the same number of people will die, whether we flatten the curve or not.  However, if we manage to flatten the curve, we won't overwhelm our hospitals and medical specialits and it will be over a longer period.  I haven't had time to research this yet. 

If we flatten the curve, then we only exceed our hospital capacity by 500% instead of 5000%.

 

The mass deaths occur when hospital capacity is exceeded, and patients are no longer able to receive the treatment that they require.  For example, if a hospital has 5 ventilators, and they have a 6th patient who requires ventilation then one of the 6 misses out - and probably dies; if there are 10 patients and 5 ventilators, then 5 die.  This is what has happened in Italy & Spain.

 

Fortunately, Australia's infection numbers have (to date) remained inside the health system's capacity constraints, and health officials are doing everything possible to expand those capacity constraints as quickly as possible.

 

Flattening the curve won't change the number of people who end up being infected.  However, it may buy us enough time to increase the health system's capacity.  If that happens, then we may be able to ensure that everyone receives the treatment that they require, which will significantly reduce the final death rate.

[Vader1111]

30 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Yes. This has been the intention. If we don't flatten the curve, a lot of people will die. The good news is that the rate of infections has dropped dramatically. We have to keep it dropping even further.

Yesterday's numbers showed the biggest single day increase in infections since CV-19 arrived in Australia.  The good news is that this was the result of significantly increased testing, so it doesn't necessarily mean that the virus is spreading at a faster rate.

[Aus Traveller]

4 minutes ago, Vader1111 said:

Flattening the curve won't change the number of people who end up being infected.  However, it may buy us enough time to increase the health system's capacity.  If that happens, then we may be able to ensure that everyone receives the treatment that they require, which will significantly reduce the final death rate.

From the various graphs and medical comments I have read, if we reduce the rate of infection by 'social distancing' and staying at home, fewer people will end up being infected. 

 

You make the point that by flattening the curve, the government has time to increase our medical facilities. On last night's announcement, the Health Minister said that our ICU beds will be increased from 2,200 to around 7,000. (I think those were the figures.)

[Vader1111]

2 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

From the various graphs and medical comments I have read, if we reduce the rate of infection by 'social distancing' and staying at home, fewer people will end up being infected. 

 

You make the point that by flattening the curve, the government has time to increase our medical facilities. On last night's announcement, the Health Minister said that our ICU beds will be increased from 2,200 to around 7,000. (I think those were the figures.)

Flattening the curve is about slowing the spread.  You'll have seen the graphs showing the early high peak, and the lower later peak.  The area under both curves (i.e. the number of people infected) remains the same.

 

Unfortunately, the only way of changing the number of people who ultimately end up being infected is the introduction of a vaccine - which is 12+ months away at best.

[Pushka]

1 hour ago, MMDown Under said:

One of the Health Experts got my attention when he said the same number of people will die, whether we flatten the curve or not.  However, if we manage to flatten the curve, we won't overwhelm our hospitals and medical specialits and it will be over a longer period.  I haven't had time to research this yet. 

I don't think that was the intent. If we flatten the curve we give everyone who might need acute care a much better opportunity to access it when needed as we will not have completely overwhelmed the health system at any particular point in time. So awful choices are less likely needed.
 

Likely the message is that the same number of people will get the virus. 

[MMDown Under]

6 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I don't think that was the intent. If we flatten the curve we give everyone who might need acute care a much better opportunity to access it when needed as we will not have completely overwhelmed the health system at any particular point in time. So awful choices are less likely needed.
 

Likely the message is that the same number of people will get the virus. 

You could be correct.  Quite a different result, the same number of people will get the virus vs the same number of people will die.  I know I got a surprise!

[MMDown Under]

1 hour ago, Vader1111 said:

If we flatten the curve, then we only exceed our hospital capacity by 500% instead of 5000%.

 

The mass deaths occur when hospital capacity is exceeded, and patients are no longer able to receive the treatment that they require.  For example, if a hospital has 5 ventilators, and they have a 6th patient who requires ventilation then one of the 6 misses out - and probably dies; if there are 10 patients and 5 ventilators, then 5 die.  This is what has happened in Italy & Spain.

 

Fortunately, Australia's infection numbers have (to date) remained inside the health system's capacity constraints, and health officials are doing everything possible to expand those capacity constraints as quickly as possible.

 

Flattening the curve won't change the number of people who end up being infected.  However, it may buy us enough time to increase the health system's capacity.  If that happens, then we may be able to ensure that everyone receives the treatment that they require, which will significantly reduce the final death rate.

Thank you for your detailed easy to follow response.  

[OzKiwiJJ]

On 3/29/2020 at 8:33 AM, BRANDEE said:

 Can't believe the story about the British woman who left the Ruby on March 19..followed the instructions given to us by the Australian Government regarding international travelers and now she is being branded a liar and terrorist, saw on tv she is getting death threats.  

Media sensationalism strikes again.

 

It's happened again in Sydney. A bunch of medical professionals arrived back from South  America the other day. Some travelled on from Sydney to their home towns including interstate. The media blew it up as a big deal, breaking quarantine, yada yada. Now it appears that there was another communication breakdown between various NSW authorities so, yes, some of those passengers were allowed to fly back home and are now wondering why they are being castigated since they were only doing what they were instructed to do. The media is, of course, back pedalling like mad but the damage has already been done. I don't believe in censorship of the media but in cases like this ...🙄

[NSWP]

On 3/29/2020 at 11:40 AM, MicCanberra said:

No more new commodores in Australia now.

Still a few old 'Statesmen' around though Mic.😂

 

On a more serious note...reported that 3 crew members taken off Ruby by NSW Police Marine Command (aka Water Police) overnight, landed at Port Botany and taken to hospital, Very sick.

Edited March 30, 2020 by NSWP

[The_Big_M]

3 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Media sensationalism strikes again.

 

It's happened again in Sydney. A bunch of medical professionals arrived back from South  America the other day. Some travelled on from Sydney to their home towns including interstate. The media blew it up as a big deal, breaking quarantine, yada yada. Now it appears that there was another communication breakdown between various NSW authorities so, yes, some of those passengers were allowed to fly back home and are now wondering why they are being castigated since they were only doing what they were instructed to do. The media is, of course, back pedalling like mad but the damage has already been done. I don't believe in censorship of the media but in cases like this ...🙄

 

I don't see it was the media at issue. They just reported on the responses, which came from both the PM and the Police Minister saying how the medical staff would be sanctioned and it was bad they were breaking the new rules.

 

Clearly there's a government and administration issue which caused the bungled management and responses. The media are rightly reporting on that, not that the government ministers and PM are responding to a media investigation. So the blame lies with the government/administration, not the media.

[Aus Traveller]

36 minutes ago, NSWP said:

Still a few old 'Statesmen' around though Mic.😂

 

On a more serious note...reported that 3 crew members taken off Ruby by NSW Police Marine Command (aka Water Police) overnight, landed at Port Botany and taken to hospital, Very sick.

Very sorry to hear this. I hope they are OK.

[MMDown Under]

34 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Very sorry to hear this. I hope they are OK.

 

They must be sick to be taken off the ship.  Did you see the aerial photos of the crew on deck, not keeping a safe distance.  Who looks after their welfare on the ship?  Their families, if far away, must be worried. 

 

 

[Aus Traveller]

12 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

 

They must be sick to be taken off the ship.  Did you see the aerial photos of the crew on deck, not keeping a safe distance.  Who looks after their welfare on the ship?  Their families, if far away, must be worried.

On the ship, in addition to the usual officers and medical staff, there is a Welfare Officer.

[MMDown Under]

1 minute ago, Aus Traveller said:

On the ship, in addition to the usual officers and medical staff, there is a Welfare Officer.

Maybe he didn't get a copy of the guidelines.  

[Kiwi Kruzer]

I saw a report that the virus is breaking out amongst crew who are manning the sips at anchor in the Caribbean .The one I saw said 14 crew on Oasis  of the Seas .

[MicCanberra]

struth, what a shizenharmer

[The_Big_M]

16 minutes ago, Kiwi Kruzer said:

I saw a report that the virus is breaking out amongst crew who are manning the sips at anchor in the Caribbean .The one I saw said 14 crew on Oasis  of the Seas .

 

That was a couple of days ago.

 

Given it's sailed in the US with American passengers, which has by far the largest number of cases, it's an outcome to be expected sadly.

[lyndarra]

Have there been any reports of non Australia victims?

[MMDown Under]

11 hours ago, NSWP said:

Still a few old 'Statesmen' around though Mic.😂

 

On a more serious note...reported that 3 crew members taken off Ruby by NSW Police Marine Command (aka Water Police) overnight, landed at Port Botany and taken to hospital, Very sick.

I have an old Holden Calais which I bought at a Government Auction.  Has anyone else bought a car at the Government Auction?  

[MMDown Under]

On 3/26/2020 at 6:14 PM, Porky55 said:

I’m a little concerned for Princess here, going to do a tiny bit of defending if I may?
Besides Ruby, these are the others - all have had confirmed cases of Covid-19, but the Media only know how to spell “Princess or Ruby”.

 

• Ovation of the Seas, left Sydney on March 11 and returned on March 18

• Voyager of the Seas, left Sydney on February 25 and returned on March 7

• Voyager of the Seas, left Sydney on March 7 and returned on March 18

• Celebrity Solstice, case joined the ship in Auckland on March 10, docked in Sydney on March 20

Just saw on replay of 7.30 Report, that a ship ? Ruby was originally due to go to Eden.  As Eden hasn't got enough medical facilities to handle a large number of cruise ship passengers, a group of local doctors requested the ship not disembark passengers in Eden.  In addition, Eden is still recovering from the bush fires.

Lucky for Eden, the ship was diverted to Sydney.  An excellent example of People Power from Eden!

[MicCanberra]

5 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

I have an old Holden Calais which I bought at a Government Auction.  Has anyone else bought a car at the Government Auction?  

No but I have helped pay for many prior to their sale.

[The_Big_M]

6 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

Just saw on replay of 7.30 Report, that a ship ? Ruby was originally due to go to Eden.  As Eden hasn't got enough medical facilities to handle a large number of cruise ship passengers, a group of local doctors requested the ship not disembark passengers in Eden.  In addition, Eden is still recovering from the bush fires.

Lucky for Eden, the ship was diverted to Sydney.  An excellent example of People Power from Eden!

 

Though Eden was welcoming cruises and their passengers back a month ago, keen for the revenue, so that wasn't it.

[MMDown Under]

14 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

Though Eden was welcoming cruises and their passengers back a month ago, keen for the revenue, so that wasn't it.

Maybe the virus being on Diamond Princess made people more aware.  Otherwise what do you think the reason might have been? I thought Eden was keen to have cruise ships visit, so this turnaround request was unexpected, except for virus worries and lack of hospital facilities.  

I miss newspapers where you can go back to source.  I used to read newspapers from front to back.  

Edited March 31, 2020 by MMDown Under