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Cancelled Cruises Refund Tracker/Discussion (merged topics)


Argo.
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18 hours ago, hcat said:

Update:

Heard back from BOA on one of our disputes.. A letter indicated  that  the Cruise Line  gave us our refund.  Any temporarily restored credit to our account  ( which we may have cashed out) will be adjusted as a charge back on a future statement.   That's fine.  Just wanted to get our refund, not make a profit!  We assume this will happen with other pending disputes,

 

  Have not filed a dispute on the last cancellation of a deposit,  but X is a real pokey puppy after advising us it has  "gone through"...but  gone through to where?

Trying to understand the post - did you actually get the refund twice?  A refund from X plus the dispute credit? If so, then I can understand them re-charging you but if not then why would you allow them to charge-back until you get the refund?

Edited by NHDOC
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Quick update...

 

4/12/20 Equinox sailing canceled on 3/24/20, applied for refund online same day.

 

On 4/11 we filed a dispute with our CC (B of A) and on 5/15/20 found out the original representative who processed our dispute didn’t code as “services not rendered”, which is what should have been done. Representative re-coded / escalated and assured us we would have some resolution within a week.

 

Today we looked at our CC online and found a credit in the full amount from BofA with a letter stating an additional 60 days before final resolution from Celebrity. So nothing new on Celebrity's end, but it was nice to see BofA follow through with their promise on a week. No telling if and when Celebrity will get to us. 58 days and counting. 

Edited by treehugr
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Full refund posted to our credit card this morning for April 19 Edge Transatlantic. Requested refund from our travel agency on March 30. Refund on May 20 was posted in four separate transactions: cruise fare for each of us and port fees/taxes for each of us.

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15 minutes ago, Argo. said:

Now that June and July cruises are cancelled as of today, let us see if credits are issued faster for the requests already in the system.

Anyone who thought they would be sailing this summer was delusional.  My bet is there won't be any North America sailing anytime this year or well into next. 

 

I read the transcript of the call.  Somebody should ask the boss why they continue to be able to take reservations (and deposits) in a timely manner but refunds "are taking up to 45 days" (this is the latest version of the lie).  If they can take your money TODAY then they should be able to give it back today. 

Edited by NHDOC
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17 hours ago, omeinv said:

 If you cancel before the cruise line you’re only entitled to the 100% future cruise certificate.  Of course even that is a special allowance made by the cruise line with the advent of COVID-19.   If you want a cash refund,  or 125% FCC you’ll have to keep the booking until/unless Celebrity cancels.  Of course this means you will have to make final payment. 
 

Harris

Denver, CO

I'm not disputing that's a correct summary of Celebrity's position, but I do not think it is actually a legally defensible position (I'm a contract litigator), given that they simply delayed cancelling many cruises and our TA told us this was the only way to avoid paying another $20,000 in final payment for a product that was never going to be delivered.  For the moment, I am curious if anyone else has had success either via Celebrity or the credit card company.

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2 minutes ago, JennAngel9 said:

I'm not disputing that's a correct summary of Celebrity's position, but I do not think it is actually a legally defensible position (I'm a contract litigator), given that they simply delayed cancelling many cruises and our TA told us this was the only way to avoid paying another $20,000 in final payment for a product that was never going to be delivered.  For the moment, I am curious if anyone else has had success either via Celebrity or the credit card company.

From what I've seen here, no one has received  either the 125% FCC or a cash refund, if they chose to cancel before the cruise was cancelled by Celebrity.  A few people have reported disputing their credit card, and - as will almost always happen - the amount was returned to their account by the credit card issuer, pending investigation.  However, Celebrity then responds to the dispute indicating the FCC was provided as agreed, and is available for the customer's use.  This results in the dispute being closed, without the customer prevailing.

 

The unrecognized danger of attempting the credit card dispute route is that, if the card issuer charges back the amount, but the merchant still feels the debt is valid, they can pursue all usual means of collection.  It's not unheard of for a customer to win the battle (have the charge reversed) yet lose the war (end up with the amount plus costs of collection, and a negative impact on their credit history). 

 

The idea that Celebrity is deliberately delaying cancellations in order to get customers to complete final payments may seem to be the case viewed in a vacuum.  However, I imagine their position would be that the Corona Virus pandemic is a fluid and rapidly changing situation, and they hope to delay cancellations to enable as many customers as possible to complete the cruise the customers (putatively) wish to take.  Although many people here are reporting only making their final payments to enable either the higher (125% vs 100%) future cruise certificate or a cash refund; Celebrity would I'm sure argue those payments evidence a desire on customer's behalf to go forward with scheduled cruises.  They would then reasonably use the number as evidence of customer desire, and their reason for delaying cancellation decision. 

 

Now, if I wanted to argue your side of the matter, I'd point to the fact that they didn't make the announcement until today's earnings call was complete.  That would seem to point to their awareness of the impact of cancellations on stock price, and point to motives other than attempting to fulfill the contracted cruises. 

 

Anyhow, all of this is why courts exist I suppose. 

 

I've got a final payment for an August cruise due in a few days.  I truly hope the cruise goes as scheduled, so I'll definitely make the payment.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

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4 minutes ago, omeinv said:

The idea that Celebrity is deliberately delaying cancellations in order to get customers to complete final payments may seem to be the case viewed in a vacuum.  However, I imagine their position would be that the Corona Virus pandemic is a fluid and rapidly changing situation, and they hope to delay cancellations to enable as many customers as possible to complete the cruise the customers (putatively) wish to take.  Although many people here are reporting only making their final payments to enable either the higher (125% vs 100%) future cruise certificate or a cash refund; Celebrity would I'm sure argue those payments evidence a desire on customer's behalf to go forward with scheduled cruises.  They would then reasonably use the number as evidence of customer desire, and their reason for delaying cancellation decision. 

 

Now, if I wanted to argue your side of the matter, I'd point to the fact that they didn't make the announcement until today's earnings call was complete.  That would seem to point to their awareness of the impact of cancellations on stock price, and point to motives other than attempting to fulfill the contracted cruises. 

 

Anyhow, all of this is why courts exist I suppose. 

 

I've got a final payment for an August cruise due in a few days.  I truly hope the cruise goes as scheduled, so I'll definitely make the payment.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

Thanks for the thoughtful response.  I think there is a high chance I will end up litigating it with Celebrity--but maybe not as they are smart enough to know that litigation costs me nothing and would cost them at least a few hundred per hour...but not everybody has the luxury of a J.D. and bar admission.

Your own situation demonstrates my point-- today they only are announcing cancellations as far as groups that have either had to make final payment or "accept" CWC.  At the time we were told our only options were pay or CWC, more than 1/2 of our party was forbidden from getting on the ship by medical rules that would remain in place for the indefinite future.

 

While we can't prove things one way or another with the information at hand, it strongly suggests they are trying to take customer money on at least some sailings they are already certain will not happen.  As a huge Celebrity fan, I will find it tragic if trying to hold 25% deposits from cruisers (by delaying cancellations, dragging out refunds, etc.) to bolster their balance sheet ends up dragging them into extremely expensive consumer class actions.

 

Having said all that, I truly hope that you get to take your August cruise (and that I am wrong about Celebrity's intention), even though I think the odds are long.  I am hopeful they will get at least some ships back in service this year, in the parts of the world that are being more responsible about containing SARS2... unfortunately, I doubt that Americans will be welcome on any of them until we can get our outbreaks suppressed better.

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17 minutes ago, omeinv said:

The idea that Celebrity is deliberately delaying cancellations in order to get customers to complete final payments may seem to be the case viewed in a vacuum.  However, I imagine their position would be that the Corona Virus pandemic is a fluid and rapidly changing situation, and they hope to delay cancellations to enable as many customers as possible to complete the cruise the customers (putatively) wish to take.

 

It was long after Canada announced that their ports were closed to cruise ships larger than 500 passengers until July 1 that Celebrity finally cancelled their Alaska cruises.   There was no way, based upon US law, that they could operate these cruises without a port call in a foreign port, Vancouver in this case.    So, why then did Celebrity drag their feet to announce the cancellation of these cruises unless they were hoping a large number of passengers would simply cancel first, for the lower non cash back 100% FCC?   I don't believe for one minute that Celebrity management expected Canada to change their mind or that the US would allow an exemption to  long standing regulation that applies to foreign cruise lines operating foreign registered ships out of US ports.

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2 hours ago, JennAngel9 said:

I'm not disputing that's a correct summary of Celebrity's position, but I do not think it is actually a legally defensible position (I'm a contract litigator), given that they simply delayed cancelling many cruises and our TA told us this was the only way to avoid paying another $20,000 in final payment for a product that was never going to be delivered.  For the moment, I am curious if anyone else has had success either via Celebrity or the credit card company.

And it's the pattern of waiting until the last minute and putting their customers under duress that is their downfall.  They have now done the same tactic at least three times.  Telling people they had to act in a way that wasn't in their self-interest or risk losing more, just as they did to me on 3/12.  I am sick of people who think X is acting in good faith, they have calculated to the day when it is most advantageous for them to cancel hoping people will take them up on the CWC and then once they do finally cancel and they deem some lucky ones worthy of refunds of their hard earned money they stall (by making "mistakes") and wait until they absolutely are forced to pay refunds before they finally do.  I am tying them up in knots with both credit card disputes and a small claims case - fighting on two fronts simultaneously so I get refunds instead of FCC that I don't want or need.  I hope someday someone does start a class action suit against them, I will be the first to join and will open a third front!

Edited by NHDOC
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Good luck with your small claims case NHDoc.  It doesn't make sense for them to be pursuing this strategy to try to claw on to a few hundred per person but alienating a huge % of their core customers at the same time-- especially if it is true that nearly 1/2 don't want a refund anyway.

 

Given the date of your sailing, are you one of the unlucky ones who is trying to get back even more than a deposit? 

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He is one who made a decision to accept an offer from Celebrity, then got miffed because other persons got better offers/options a few days later and he thinks he deserves something to compensate him for poor decisions under stress. So with nothing else to do he has mounted a vendetta of sorts. 
 

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I am not not familiar with all of his details, but I am extremely sympathetic to cruisers who feel the benefit of force majeure should work both ways and that their cruiseline (Celebrity or otherwise) should be willing to refund money to everyone it could not provide the cruise they paid for-- even if some of them had the foresight to mitigate their losses earlier and reduce risks to themselves and the global population instead of traveling to a port for a cruise that was unlikely to sail.  

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5 hours ago, omeinv said:

 

 

I've got a final payment for an August cruise due in a few days.  I truly hope the cruise goes as scheduled, so I'll definitely make the payment.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

 

No chance I'd say. Why would you make a payment for something that 100% will not eventuate.

I had the same issue but just cancelled and took the amount that I'd paid as future credit (on Princess). Unfortunately the unethical conduct of the cruise lines require us to make these decisions, when the cruises should have been cancelled weeks ago.

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2 minutes ago, leck57 said:

 

No chance I'd say. Why would you make a payment for something that 100% will not eventuate.

I had the same issue but just cancelled and took the amount that I'd paid as future credit (on Princess). Unfortunately the unethical conduct of the cruise lines require us to make these decisions, when the cruises should have been cancelled weeks ago.

Your opinion is that it won't go.  Mine is there's a reasonable chance it could, based on the itinerary, and all factors.  I suppose the evidence of my faith in that opinion is that I'm willing to back it up by making final payment.  Beyond that, if it doesn't go, I'd likely use the "lift and shift" option.  It's not an amount of money that different than I would have tied up in cruise deposits at any other time.

 

I definitely do not share your opinion that the cruise lines (at least Celebrity) have acted in an unethical manner.  I suppose if I did I'd have a different view about booking.  I exercised a little patience when I was due a refund from a cancelled March cruise, and have tried to recognize Celebrity is caught in a very bad situation by this pandemic, and - based on what I've seen, and how I've been treated - I'm convinced they're doing the best that can be expected.  Alas, many have different expectations apparently. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

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2 hours ago, GottaKnowWhen said:

He is one who made a decision to accept an offer from Celebrity, then got miffed because other persons got better offers/options a few days later and he thinks he deserves something to compensate him for poor decisions under stress. So with nothing else to do he has mounted a vendetta of sorts. 
 

 

I agree with above. 

Having said that, I do have some sympathy for NHdoc.

I think what a lot of us customers don’t fully appreciate is the fact that none of the root cause was of Celebrity’s making and as such the CWC offer was pretty generous and over and above their standard contracted arrangements.

I do think it’s fair to criticise Celebrity in some aspects of how well they have managed communications and refunds.

IMO, the current “enhanced” CWC offer is pretty reasonable, they just need to apply it consistently and refund in a timely manner.

NB

I’m not a Celebrity apologist. I too have had a long wait for my refund and am still waiting for a shortfall amount to be refunded. 

 

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1 minute ago, omeinv said:

Your opinion is that it won't go.  Mine is there's a reasonable chance it could, based on the itinerary, and all factors.  I suppose the evidence of my faith in that opinion is that I'm willing to back it up by making final payment.  Beyond that, if it doesn't go, I'd likely use the "lift and shift" option.  It's not an amount of money that different than I would have tied up in cruise deposits at any other time.

 

I definitely do not share your opinion that the cruise lines (at least Celebrity) have acted in an unethical manner.  I suppose if I did I'd have a different view about booking.  I exercised a little patience when I was due a refund from a cancelled March cruise, and have tried to recognize Celebrity is caught in a very bad situation by this pandemic, and - based on what I've seen, and how I've been treated - I'm convinced they're doing the best that can be expected.  Alas, many have different expectations apparently. 

 

Harris

Denver, CO

 

I really hope your cruise proceeds, and if you have an alternative if it doesn't then no harm I guess. In my case I just did not want to be locked down to one cruise line and to a timeframe. I already have an amount with Princess that I am supposed to use by 28 Feb. Time is running out on that. 

As for the cruise lines acting unethically, my question to you is - do you think it right that cruise lines have continued to sell cruises that have no chance of sailing? There are hundreds of examples of that. Celebrity are as guilty as others and I will not be an apologist for them, despite my hope to cruise again in the future. Just my opinion.

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Hi ,I was advised by my TA that celebrity sent money over to them on Sunday ,just checked  my bank refund actioned .This was for a cruise on May 1st  I have been advised that Celebrity are now dealing with refunds up to 11th May.

I hope you all will receive yours soon .

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And for anyone who thinks that Celebrity's careless wording of their cancellation notices isn't ambiguous I would refer them to the wording of Holland America's notice:

 

"Guests who are currently booked on a cruise listed above will automatically receive a generous Future Cruise Credit (FCC). Guests who require a refund in lieu of the generous FCC offer are encouraged to inform us through our online cancellation preference form by June 1, 2020."  (Italics added for emphasis)

 

When offering an entitlement, there is NO question that "guests who are currently booked" is a different statement from "all booked guests", which is how X worded their offer.  HAL's wording makes it crystal clear they intended to extend the offer only to those guests who were booked at the time the offer was extended while X's offer can be open to a different interpretation; namely that by using the past tense "booked" combined with "all" the statement can be interpreted to mean that this new offer is for anyone presently or who had been previously booked and cancelled prior to the offer being extended.  In short, "all booked guests" does not mean the same thing as "guests who are currently booked" and it is that subtle difference in the offer that opens X up to having to extend it to everyone who received the notice of cancellation.  And, as I pointed out previously, the burden in making a contract unambiguous is on the party who drafted it.  So, by leaving it up to interpretation I am able to interpret it in my favor and that would tend to tip the scales in my favor under a "preponderance of the evidence" rule in small claims court, IMHO.  Offer, acceptance and consideration (refund).  It's a contract, and I intend for them to live up to it.

Edited by NHDOC
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On 5/8/2020 at 6:04 AM, twentyknots said:

Called TA yesterday.  She had no explanation for the missing $1080.96.  We did however, determine that the mystery $418.00 is most likely gratuities.  At $19 per day per passenger for a suite it equals $418.00 for the 11 night trip.  Don't understand their breaking this out since I didnt prepay gratuities.  The 4-pack of perks included gratuities.  We agreed to wait a week before calling and asking about the remaining credit.

TA called C on our behalf checking on the missing $1080.  The customer service rep said she had no idea what the $1080 represented but 1/2 half of it or $540 was processed and should hit credit card soon.  The remaining $540 would probably follow in a few weeks.  This is definitely a strange way to process refunds.  It's been about 60 days since we requested a refund.  I'd say that many here who believe they're using new money to make refunds are correct.

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We have received a full refund for our cancelled April 12 cruise to Hawaii.

I originally thought we only received a partial refund, but my bad I needed to look a little closer at my invoice.  Our invoice looks as follows:  I was expecting a refund of 5138 however our fare was discounted by 1556.  So we have received a total refund of 3842 (cruise fare less discount plus taxes).  All that is missing is the airfare of $2009 which Choice Air has advised will be refunded (we do not want a credit).  

 

I know others have reported only receiving a partial refund....maybe double check your invoice just in case....

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Good News!  Yesterday afternoon we received the full refund, which was requested on March 24, for our

April 19 TA on the Edge, including air fare.  What a relief that we can put this behind us and look forward

to our next cruise.  Unfortunately, that won't be for another 18 months as we have moved our November,

2020 Westbound TA on the Silhouette to November, 2021.  Hopefully a vaccine will be available in the near

future and we can be sailing again soon with all our cruise friends and wonderful crew members.

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Why does X handle their cancellations like this, so they can get headlines like this on the Motley Fool today:

 

Royal Caribbean Expects to Return to Service on Aug. 1

 

We all know that cancelling cruises through July isn't really the same as expecting to return to service in August as this headline implies.  If you read each of the four cancellation letters X has issued each says they expect to return to service but it's another lie. 

 

The fact is these cruise lines won't sail again until there's either a vaccine or effective proven treatment to prevent death from COVID-19, period.  Why?   Because most of their customers fall into the high risk of death category.  Elderly, overweight, diabetics and people with other comorbidities are their most loyal customers and even if some of them would sail there's no way the attorneys who work for the cruise lines or their insurance companies are going to let them onboard before there's a reasonable chance they won't contract the virus and die during the trip.  Plus the ports aren't going to let them dock, so where are they going to go?  To their private islands? 

 

And so, my friends, denial ain't just the river they cruise on.  Expect cruise lines to be parked for a long while and at least one of them to run out of money before they start again.  And then where will all those FCC's be used?  Cat box liners, I suspect.

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