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6 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

The public sector is always a really easy target for governments of all political colours and it always has been. 

 

The “far better” pensions are now career average which diminishes their value and paid for (by most of the public sector) by a % deduction from salary. The days of the non contributory pension are long since gone. That % deduction is also increased with salary so while in the private sector in if you and I put in a sum we would get back the same, that’s not the case in the public sector. Those who earn more pay a much higher percentage but get back the same 80th, so it’s like a higher rate tax in effect. The private sector would not be happy if that was imposed on them as it was in public life many years ago. They have also attached the retirement age to the state pension age so the goal posts just keep moving for people.

 

The public sector was also paid a lot paid less for many years than private sector (and no annual bonuses, Christmas party, etc) equivalents to the point that they could not retain some skill sets as people moved away for the higher pay. The government did not think that was unfair.

 

It may be different down south but there have been redundancies up here and a lot of staff on furlough eg library, leisure, visitor attractions, hours cut at the dump etc etc.  Not perhaps to the same extent as in the private sector but still affecting many individuals.

 

I fully recognise that the books have to be balanced but the people who will suffer an effective pay cut next year(s), if indeed they still have a job with budget cuts, are the same people who have worked all the hours god sent over the last six months to keep the country going.

 

Rant over. I don’t think it is fair to always pick on the same group of people just because you can and that would be true of any government, not just this one.


I don’t disagree with much of what you are saying but, in so far as pensions are concerned, it is indeed true that Public Sector pension schemes are no longer as lucrative as they used to be, but they still remain significantly better than the vast majority of pension schemes that are on offer outside of the Public sector. 

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....and that non contributory pension was not a free pension. Part of the pay calculation was a reduction in the calculated rates equivalent to the amount you would have paid in pension contributions, the reasoning being why pay you money and just have you pay it directly back to them. the knock on effects included being able to get a smaller mortgage because back then the loan was a multiple of your salary 😠

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43 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

Today is the day of bad news for us, my friend rang me this morning to tell me that her lovely mum who was the nicest person I have ever met died during the night, she was with her at the hospital, (not Covid related).  My niece just rang to say that when she went to have her bloods done and picc line flushed yesterday she had a swab test done and it has come back positive so her chemo is delayed for 2weeks while she isolates.

So sorry Josy. Please accept our condolences and best wishes for your niece.

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17 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

The public sector is always a really easy target for governments of all political colours and it always has been. 

 

The “far better” pensions are now career average which diminishes their value and paid for (by most of the public sector) by a % deduction from salary. The days of the non contributory pension are long since gone. That % deduction is also increased with salary so while in the private sector in if you and I put in a sum we would get back the same, that’s not the case in the public sector. Those who earn more pay a much higher percentage but get back the same 80th, so it’s like a higher rate tax in effect. The private sector would not be happy if that was imposed on them as it was in public life many years ago. They have also attached the retirement age to the state pension age so the goal posts just keep moving for people.

 

The public sector was also paid a lot paid less for many years than private sector (and no annual bonuses, Christmas party, etc) equivalents to the point that they could not retain some skill sets as people moved away for the higher pay. The government did not think that was unfair.

 

It may be different down south but there have been redundancies up here and a lot of staff on furlough eg library, leisure, visitor attractions, hours cut at the dump etc etc.  Not perhaps to the same extent as in the private sector but still affecting many individuals.

 

I fully recognise that the books have to be balanced but the people who will suffer an effective pay cut next year(s), if indeed they still have a job with budget cuts, are the same people who have worked all the hours god sent over the last six months to keep the country going.

 

Rant over. I don’t think it is fair to always pick on the same group of people just because you can and that would be true of any government, not just this one.

Spot on!  Always easy to bash the public sector - when it suits.

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52 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

Today is the day of bad news for us, my friend rang me this morning to tell me that her lovely mum who was the nicest person I have ever met died during the night, she was with her at the hospital, (not Covid related).  My niece just rang to say that when she went to have her bloods done and picc line flushed yesterday she had a swab test done and it has come back positive so her chemo is delayed for 2weeks while she isolates.

Oh no, really sorry to hear that. What a grim day 

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8 minutes ago, davecttr said:

....and that non contributory pension was not a free pension. Part of the pay calculation was a reduction in the calculated rates equivalent to the amount you would have paid in pension contributions, the reasoning being why pay you money and just have you pay it directly back to them. the knock on effects included being able to get a smaller mortgage because back then the loan was a multiple of your salary 😠

Quite.  And because the salary as originally calculated was reduced to take account of the pension, the pensionable salary was itself reduced, leading to an even lower pension.

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51 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

Today is the day of bad news for us, my friend rang me this morning to tell me that her lovely mum who was the nicest person I have ever met died during the night, she was with her at the hospital, (not Covid related).  My niece just rang to say that when she went to have her bloods done and picc line flushed yesterday she had a swab test done and it has come back positive so her chemo is delayed for 2weeks while she isolates.

Sorry to hear about your friends mum.  Hope your niece isn’t too ill with Covid and that her chemo can start again soon

 

Michelle

 

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47 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

Today is the day of bad news for us, my friend rang me this morning to tell me that her lovely mum who was the nicest person I have ever met died during the night, she was with her at the hospital, (not Covid related).  My niece just rang to say that when she went to have her bloods done and picc line flushed yesterday she had a swab test done and it has come back positive so her chemo is delayed for 2weeks while she isolates.

I'm so sorry to hear of your bad news Josy.  I hope we can be  of some support to you while you are supporting them. Take care🤗

Avril

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1 minute ago, Peanut006 said:

Sorry to hear about your friends mum.  Hope your niece isn’t too ill with Covid and that her chemo can start again soon

 

Michelle

 

My niece seems to be asymptomatic, she has not felt ill so didn't think that she had caught it.  She is blaming her husband because he has had it.

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24 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

My niece seems to be asymptomatic, she has not felt ill so didn't think that she had caught it.  She is blaming her husband because he has had it.

Hopefully it goes quickly and is not too serious.

 

Always upsetting to get bad days like today. Take care.

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1 hour ago, pete14 said:

I remember back in the 1980s, the government imposed a flat rate rise of £312 pa or £6 per week. A large number of people were complaining at the time that it was insufficient and eroded differentials. 40 years or so later, the lowest paid in the public sector are being give £250 pa, nearly £5 per week extra. Just saying😏

I dont remember the exact data, but I imagine your figures were probably maximum, although they do seem rather high for 40 years ago.

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What would you do? (honest answers only).....

 

Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them?

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2 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

What would you do? (honest answers only).....

 

Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them?

 

In a word "NO"  If we have rules what is the point in slagging Cummings and others ? 

Some could say I live 100 yards from a boundary some where , some 1/2 a mile away ,

others 5 minute drive . Where does it end trying to justify it ?

I personally would feel a hypocrite shouting "one rule for one " and then doing the very same .

I can say I would do the honest and decent thing . Other people have to seek out their own 

values & morals .

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14 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

What would you do? (honest answers only).....

 

Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them?

I knew this year would end in tiers... 😊

Andy 

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26 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

What would you do? (honest answers only).....

 

Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them?

Up here no on the basis that the travel restrictions are in law (not just the levels) and it is a criminal offence to move out of your council area to one which has an different level. It’s not just a fine, it is a crime.

 

As I said in a previous post I can’t go to my favourite cheese shop as it is in a different (higher) level than here.

 

What is the situation down there? A lunch is surely not worth a criminal record if it is the same.

 

I miss a decent meal out too so we have started to buy some nice indulgences on line or as take away from local restaurants. 
 

I’m a woose and a rule follower so in all honestly, I wound not do it.

 

 

Edited by Eglesbrech
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52 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I dont remember the exact data, but I imagine your figures were probably maximum, although they do seem rather high for 40 years ago.

No, they were across the board. I wasn’t unhappy because I wasn’t earning a great amount. 

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45 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

What would you do? (honest answers only).....

 

Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them?

Very simple answer, and entirely honest - no.  If the law is clear, which it appears to be, follow it. 

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1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

Quite.  And because the salary as originally calculated was reduced to take account of the pension, the pensionable salary was itself reduced, leading to an even lower pension.

You are quite correct  - I was a civil servant for 37 years before retiring. This reduction in the amount of gross salary also impacted on, for example, the amount we were able to obtain for a mortgage. Many people are quick to say that civil servants pay and remuneration is generous, but it is not so simple! 

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1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

What would you do? (honest answers only).....

 

Like many people, we live in a fairly rural area but have learned today that our local authority is tier 3, no doubt due to the fact that some of our county (20 miles away) borders a city with high infection rates. We are right on the county line and could quite literally throw a stone into our neighbouring county, which is tier 2. Some of the local pubs that we enjoy lunches in are in our ‘neighbouring county’ and these will be open again from next week. I know what the law states but, in all honesty, would you go to them?

I guess that's a no from me, but if you decide to go ahead, I would advise not telling us. Can you imagine?.🤣

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3 hours ago, Josy1953 said:

Today is the day of bad news for us, my friend rang me this morning to tell me that her lovely mum who was the nicest person I have ever met died during the night, she was with her at the hospital, (not Covid related).  My niece just rang to say that when she went to have her bloods done and picc line flushed yesterday she had a swab test done and it has come back positive so her chemo is delayed for 2weeks while she isolates.

Oh Josy that is awful news and I'm so sorry for you and your friend and for your niece too.

Graham.

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