Solvency of Cruise Lines

[Dolebludger]

One positive thing is that those who must fly to a cruise (due to distance or ocean in the way) will not suffer from overcrowded airports and airlines (about which I have perhaps too often complained). The airports are deserted and many flights are 10% full. But one problem has quickly replaced another. Now, many flights are getting canceled (often at the last minute) and some with booked cruises after the estimated date of restrictions being lifted have done some checking and find that their flights no longer exist. These people are posting here asking what to do. Many of us can’t “call out our driver” to be taken to a cruise unless our driver has a Sabre Jet. (He doesn’t.) 

 As per TC2’s recommendation. I have checked out some other lines here on CC to see what people are saying. They don’t seem to be worried about bankruptcy (yet). They are still having problems getting refunds in less than 90 bays from canceled cruises. They haven’t yet realized that this mess might sink their favorite line.

The last thing I want is for Regent to go under.  I feel for it, and all other good lines. They have been hit with a huge problem not of their making. Some may say that they aren’t handling it well, but how does a company handle a disaster like this?  I wish Regent only the best, along with other lines like it.  But from a great deal of financial, business, and legal experience, I must admit that I neither like nor trust the condition of NCLH, and can’t justify paying in any money for which I might not get what I paid for, and might not be able to recover.

 

[BarbarianPaul]

17 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

Paul, once again, we disagree.  There are many Regent passengers that have been booking new cruises right after their cruise was cancelled. 

 

The simple fact that some cruise ships would need several thousand passengers to fill their ship vs. Regent that only needs a few hundred is but one of the differences.  

 

I certainly did not feel that I was booking a cruise that I would become sick on.  In terms of FCC’s, we had over $40K but also had the option to receive a refund.  We would have taken the refund if we were concerned.  Keep in mind that cruise ships will not sail if the risk to the passengers or crew are too high.

 

Going back to my comment, predictions of doom, bankruptcy and not being able to cruise for months (or years if you wait for the FDA to approve a vaccine), is really not helping anyone.  We do not have facts so this kind of information causes people more fear and pain as well as causing them to cancel cruises that may end up being perfectly safe.  

 

While I can’t stop people from swimming in the pool of negativity, I can try show the other side of the picture and that is what I am doing!

Alas, yes, disagreement once more. Yes, of course, many differences between, say The  Symphony Of The Seas, and the Splendor, not the least of which being that we’d all rather be sailing on the latter! (No offense to the beyond gigantic Symphony, which I’m sure is an experience, and possibly a fun one, but that’s for some other thread.)

 

The thing is, whatever happens on one ship will affect the perception of the entire industry, from luxury to mainstream. If some mainstream ship experiences another nightmarish incident, I think it’s going to diminish every cruise line’s potential business. And, wouldn’t it make you think twice as well? 
 

But I don’t subscribe to any long term doom and gloom scenario. All the major cruise lines have taken steps to shore up their finances by substantially increasing credit and liquidity. Everyone will be back sailing soon enough, hopefully my wife and I included, but for us I’m not sure about the timeline. That said, if a few initial cruises by any line go off without any incidents, maybe your rush to rebook might actually happen!
 

 

[rallydave]

The No Sail Ordere is back on the Federal Register website scheduled to be published on Wednesday April 15 so 100 days will be July 24, 2020 pending the HHS or CDS determining the Pandemic is over

 

The order is much the same although now 24 pages vs 9 pages but, much of that is because they pretty much double spaced everything.  It stil states now in two places that ships in US waters cannot be moved.  It is written a little differently with examples but, pretty much no movement and nobody getting on or off the ships without Coast Guard Approval.  The Cruise Lines and/or CLIA have 7 days to provide a new plan after signing (it is currently  unsigned) so expect it to be signed upong publication so 7 days from Wednesday.  Read at your pleasure.  Link:

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/public-inspection/current?source=122648

[SusieQft]

Yes, no movement without USCG permission, but I would expect that permission to be fairly easy to get if a ship wanted to leave US waters and promised not to come back.  Not that I think there will be a huge rush of ships wanting to do this....

[CruiserFromMaine]

On 4/11/2020 at 7:35 PM, Travelcat2 said:

On our last two cruises that ended in Miami, we booked flights on American Airlines

TC2, your experience on American Airlines is typical for them. Try Delta or Jet Blue for a better US domestic experience. 

[CruiserFromMaine]

On 4/11/2020 at 7:35 PM, Travelcat2 said:

On our last two cruises that ended in Miami, we booked flights on American Airlines

TC2, your experience on American Airlines is typical for them. Try Delta or Jet Blue for a better US domestic experience. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by CruiserFromMaine
Double post, sorry

[Dolebludger]

We have no choice but AA to DFW and Phoenix, or United to Denver to catch an international flight or a flight to a US cruise port. And flights on both have been highly unreliable in the past, in the days of crowded planes and airports. Both have been unreliable now as they are prone to last minute cancelations due to low passenger volume. And if we switch airlines at one of these hubs, we don’t get luggage transfer unless it is to one of the airlines “in their system”. I remember the days when only Southwest didn’t participate in luggage transfer from other lines. All others did.  I am sorry if some don't want to hear about flight problems in getting to a cruise, but this is a cruise line problem too. If I can’t get to the port in a decent manner, I can’t cruise. If airlines had continued to be regulated, this would not have happened. Both AA and United  had installed middle row seating in their larger regional planes, and now the middle seats are “X’d” out, meaning they can’t be booked. Good, because flying three to a row on those little planes was just too intimate! Maybe something good is coming out of this terrible mess!

 

When I read that Crystal was getting an all first class plane, it was my hope that it would be available to take us to a cruise, at least from a hub. Not so. It seems to offer only “fly to hotel” trips and at a cost that is horrific. 
 

when the pandemic is over (don’t know when that will be) cruise lines will be left with what was a growing problem pre-pandemic, and that is reliable air service to get to and from the ports, which we did not have before and won’t have after. I do not how this problem can be solved, absent airline re-regulation.

[SusieQft]

What happens if your luggage does not make the connection where you go through customs to re-enter the US?  Do you proceed without your luggage, and eventually, hopefully, it makes it to your final destination?

[rallydave]

3 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

What happens if your luggage does not make the connection where you go through customs to re-enter the US?  Do you proceed without your luggage, and eventually, hopefully, it makes it to your final destination?

Not exactly.  Once all of the luggage is off the conveyor and you have one or more missing bags, go directly and find the luggage office for your airline and give them all of the information and hopefully their records will show exactly where your luggage is.  There are lots of places other than the conveyor and hopefully they know whee it is or what route it is taking to your connection point.  Once you get the needed information or no information ask the luggage people how they are getting the luggage to you and what your next step is.

 

You will already have gone thru immigration so you are legally in the US and you can't go back so perhaps your luggage will be on the next flight and you just have to wait but, that is unlikely.  Most likely they will get your luggage delivered to your home or where you want it delivered within a few days.   Good luck this never happens and usually luggage is shown in their computer system and they know the next steps as soon as you ask.

[Dolebludger]

And along these lines, I strongly believe customs inspections, for US citizens, should be abolished. One time, my luggage was inspected “by random number” by customs. After they went through it and found  nothing but dirty clothes., I asked them a question. ‘What did you expect, a suitcase full of cut diamonds?”  The officer said “if that is what you had, it would be tax free, as there is no tax on uncut, unmounted diamonds”. I said “What?” Now customs inspections are there for the sole purpose of collecting taxes due. I strongly suspect that taxes collected from US tourists coming home do not justify the cost of the personnel involved. And the procedure sure is a pain for us.

 

As a 100% diabled US veteran, it saddens me to say that the most difficult country to get into is my own!

Edited April 13, 2020 by Dolebludger

[rallydave]

4 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

And along these lines, I strongly believe customs inspections, for US citizens, should be abolished. One time, my luggage was inspected “by random number” by customs. After they went through it and found  nothing but dirty clothes., I asked them a question. ‘What did you expect, a suitcase full of cut diamonds?”  The officer said “if that is what you had, it would be tax free, as there is no tax on uncut, unmounted diamonds”. I said “What?” Now customs inspections are there for the sole purpose of collecting taxes due. I strongly suspect that taxes collected from US tourists coming home do not justify the cost of the personnel involved. And the procedure sure is a pain for us.

Confused.  You no longer need to fill out the old I=94 Form where you had to list everything you bought and turn in when going thru customs plust the last few times I simply walked out the door from customs as nobody was there and didn't have the old piece of paper from Global Entry and nobody there at the door.  This is now much like going into a foreign country where you walk thru the green exit and nobody is thres and no reason to stop.

 

So appears they have already cut down the number of people exiting Customs.  Sure there are people looking for indications of smugglers drug runners and people feeling guilty which is a good thing but, was great without lines and simply walk out the door.

[Dolebludger]

Rallydave, 

Good to hear this, I really felt sorry for the guy who had to go through all my dirty underwear!  There should be a way (in this computer age) to just let people through who are US citizens and who have just been out of the country on vacation.  I’m not a fan of drug dealers either, but it is the purpose of the US Customs service to collect importation taxes. There are no such taxes to be collected from these vacationers. 
 

 

 

[pingpong1]

"Dole" and "Rallydave" - From just a practical sense, I can't think of a single thing that I might want to purchase overseas, that we couldn't buy right here, at far less cost, in the U.S.  I was amazed to walk around the "High Street" in Scotland and see "every day" or even "higher-end" scotches that were selling (actually, they weren't) at nearly double the price that I would pay for the exact same bottle, over here (Arizona) at my local Costco.  Same is also true for almost everything else.  Competition and the "free market" really benefits the average consumer. 

 

Perhaps those overseas items might be "bargains" for residents of Japan or China, but certainly not for me.  When a close Danish friend of mine comes to visit in the U.S, one of our first "tourist stops" for him is Kohl's department store, where he'll eagerly toss 4 pairs of jeans into his shopping cart.  The first time he did this, I asked him, "Why"?  He told me that he could buy those 4 pair of jeans in the U.S., for no more money than what one pair of the same brand/quality would cost him back in Denmark.  He told me the same is true for "luxury items", as well, such as Rings/watches/perfume/cigars, etc.

 

So along the lines of what you've both said, I don't think our US customs officers are nearly as "busy" anymore (as perhaps they once were) for returning US citizens.  Regards.  

[Wendy The Wanderer]

1 hour ago, pingpong1 said:

When a close Danish friend of mine comes to visit in the U.S, one of our first "tourist stops" for him is Kohl's department store, where he'll eagerly toss 4 pairs of jeans into his shopping cart.  The first time he did this, I asked him, "Why"?  He told me that he could buy those 4 pair of jeans in the U.S., for no more money than what one pair of the same brand/quality would cost him back in Denmark. 

 

And there's virtually no chance those jeans were made in the U.S.  If not China, then Vietnam, Thailand, etc.

[pingpong1]

4 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

And there's virtually no chance those jeans were made in the U.S.  If not China, then Vietnam, Thailand, etc.

Absolutely Right, Wendy.  And the "difference" comes down to taxes and "pass-through VAT" differences between the U.S. and Denmark.  As the saying goes, "If you think things are expensive now....just wait until they're free".

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

On 4/10/2020 at 7:58 PM, mrlevin said:

 

I do mean Apollo Global Management. I can't find article I saw earlier regarding an 8-K filing.

 

Marc

I am watching Leon Black , Chairman and CEO of Apollo Global Management on CNBC regarding his 10 million dollar donation to NYC health force. 
The company is very strong. They are providing long term support to many industries at this time.  Do not start rumors, if you can not substantiate them. 
thank you 

Sheila

 

[Travelcat2]

2 hours ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

I am watching Leon Black , Chairman and CEO of Apollo Global Management on CNBC regarding his 10 million dollar donation to NYC health force. 
The company is very strong. They are providing long term support to many industries at this time.  Do not start rumors, if you can not substantiate them. 
thank you 

Sheila

 

 

Thank you Sheila - I could not agree more.  

[CruiserFromMaine]

On 4/13/2020 at 4:34 PM, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

Do not start rumors, if you can not substantiate them. 

 

Great advice, pandemic or not! 

[mrlevin]

I agree, can't find the original report.   

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

I notice Marc Levin is posting on CC, however he chooses not to respond to my post, regarding his post. Looking forward to hearing from him. 
thank you

sheila

PS Marc... thank you for responding. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Bellaggio Cruisers
Noticed Marc response at same time I posted.

[RJ2002]

Late news today regarding NCLH.   Hopefully the results of this effort are successful in keeping all the NCL lines in business.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nrwn-crs-ln-hldg-financing-exclusive/exclusive-norwegian-cruise-taps-goldman-sachs-to-explore-stake-sale-sources-idUSKBN21Z3FU?il=0

 

(Reuters) - Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd (NCLH.N) has hired investment bank Goldman Sachs Group Inc (GS.N) to explore financing options that could include the sale of a stake in the company, people familiar with the matter said on Friday.

[mrlevin]

Hopefully they will spin off Regent.  I know it is just a "pipe" dream but Regent did survive private equity ownership once before.

Edited April 18, 2020 by mrlevin

[Dolebludger]

I don’t know what it means, except cruise lines are not going to be producing revenue soon. It is not only the US restrictions, but all the ports and airports that are closed to international travel around the world. I wouldn’t wish this on any business concern, but I can recognize it for what it is. All cruise lines are in serious financial trouble. I don’t like it one bit, but it is the way it is. I wouldn’t take an FCC from any cruise line if cash back were an option. A few decades ago, I was a bankruptcy attorney ( long since retired) so I can’t go into details. All I can say is I don’t like the “smell” of the situation the cruise lines are in now. I wish I could change the situation, but I can’t, and I doubt anybody can.

 

And should NCLH spin off Regent, who would buy it under these circumstances, and for how much?

Edited April 18, 2020 by Dolebludger

[Travelcat2]

54 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Hopefully they will spin off Regent.  I know it is just a "pipe" dream but Regent did survive private equity ownership once before.

 

I would be all for that IF Frank Del Rio was the CEO!  Wish that he could take back Oceania and Regent but they do not have the deep pockets that NCLH has.  For better or worse, Regent, their crew and ships are in better shape than they have been in years and will survive this crisis.  I have no doubt whatsoever!

 

[mrlevin]

9 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

I would be all for that IF Frank Del Rio was the CEO!  Wish that he could take back Oceania and Regent but they do not have the deep pockets that NCLH has.  For better or worse, Regent, their crew and ships are in better shape than they have been in years and will survive this crisis.  I have no doubt whatsoever!

 

 

I strongly disagree, Regent will only work (in my opinion) if they can get away from Oceania and Mr. del Rio.

 

Just my two confederate sense,

 

Marc