Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[sansterre]

8 minutes ago, Boatdrill said:

The ink isn't dry just yet.    

 

From HAL: 

UPDATE March 28 (8 pm PT/11 pm ET): We are aware of reported permission for both Zaandam and Rotterdam to transit the Panama Canal in the near future. We greatly appreciate this consideration in the humanitarian interest of our guests and crew. This remains a dynamic situation, and we continue to work with the Panamanian authorities to finalize details.  

Praying for everyone on the Zaandam and Rotterdam and hoping that everything (Plan K) goes smoothly.

[2+2]

The US will step up to the plate. They have the knowledge and ability to take care of the passengers and community safely. That is what we do. 

[puppycanducruise]

Sending prayers to everyone on the ships and in Panama.

[ski ww]

Watching the Canadian news just now they announced that the Zaandam has permission to go through the Panama Canal.

[kathy49]

7 hours ago, 2+2 said:

The US will step up to the plate. They have the knowledge and ability to take care of the passengers and community safely. That is what we do. 

I used to think so too!

[zonacruiser25]

While this transit may not be the experience of a lifetime, it will probably bee the most memorable.  Zaandam will be relieved that an end of their journey is in sight.  Now let's hope there will be no complications in FL!

 

[jakkojakko]

Video in dutch news site with the evacuation of passengers

 

https://www.nu.nl/279916/video/cruiseschip-zaandam-evacueert-70-plussers-na-corona-uitbraak.html?jwsource=cl

 

And an english one.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by jakkojakko
Addition

[Max2003]

Daylight in Panama!  It looks like movement has resumed between ships.Three of the tenders show recent updates to their AIS signal.  I think we will get a good idea when things might get going when those transponders are turned off indicating that the tenders are in the davits.

 

[FOPMan]

here's my personal thought: I wonder if there's been consideration of using Guantanamo Bay. All funding to be provided by Holland America. Each country with people on the ship, plus the countries of registry for the ships, could fly medical and support staff to the base.

Unused facilities could be adapted for passenger's use. Ship's crew would be responsible for all but medical services

 

People would remain in isolation, either on ship or in land facility.

 

As people cleared quarantine, Holland would fly charter flights out, dropping people off along the way,  but no commercial flights. Connections would be permitted, but only to aircraft with only passengers (eg, if it were more efficient for a private plane to make a hop from Dallas to Denver, Holland could charter a plane for that flight) and the transfer does not allow passengers to enter the terminal.

 

The American military could help, but at a minimal level of personnel- passenger interaction.

 

[ducklite]

11 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Mexico has also closed their ports to cruise ships however, they made an exception for Rotterdam and her own pax so..........

Mexico has closed it's borders to all non-Mexicans.  

[kennystwin]

9 minutes ago, FOPMan said:

here's my personal thought: I wonder if there's been consideration of using Guantanamo Bay. All funding to be provided by Holland America. Each country with people on the ship, plus the countries of registry for the ships, could fly medical and support staff to the base.

 

...

The American military could help, but at a minimal level of personnel- passenger interaction.

 

Another option would be to dock at Corpus Christi and bus the passengers to Lackland AFB in San Antonio. Lackland already has facilities and experience caring for the Diamond Princess passengers and the San Antonio military hospitals are  likely better prepared than civilian hospital for these emergency responses.

 

Just an idea.

[ducklite]

38 minutes ago, secondchance said:

Living in Texas but having lived in Florida from  childhood to adulthood, I say let them in at the nearest port.  HAL has the ability to set up transportation for the passengers on the Rotterdam and the persons on the Zaandam who have not displayed symptoms prior to their arrival to reduce their contact with other personnel.  Lets get real, these are humans and we are humanitarians.

The nearest US port would be Key West.  They are under lock down, no one enters the Keys unless under very specific circumstances.  Their hotels and guest houses are all shut down.  They have one small hospital with only about 150 beds.  Not an option.

 

The best option is to bring them into a Naval base with a field hospital set up to care for the sick and quarantine facilities for the others.

One thing people aren't thinking about is that most of these people aren't US citizens--who is paying for all of this?  ICU can run $25K per day per person.  Who is paying for it?  HAL?  The non-citizen's governments?  Even holding people in quarantine for two weeks has a cost.  Who will be paying for this.  If the US government accepts this ship, US taxpayers will be shouldering the burden to care for these people who overwhelmingly don't pay us taxes.  Even just to keep the healthy ones in quarantine will cost $25 a day per person just to feed them.  That's half a million dollars right there. Medical bills could easily hit over $5M.  Again I ask.  Why is paying for this?  

[FOPMan]

Guantanamo's a much better solution. You don't have any civilian distractions or interactions to consider. Everything is self contained and it puts absolutely no burden on local civilian infrastructure. No need for a local politician or law enforcement to worry or get involved. 
 

It needs to be a total package- get the passengers home, not released after quarantine into some other city, and not through normal passenger air services.

 

No city needs the extra stress right now. Not Corpus, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Jacksonville....

[capriccio]

Just posted on the Sun-Sentinel website with the provocative headline "Florida coronavirus updates: Sick ship coming to Fort Lauderdale; state surpasses 4,000 cases."

 

A Holland America cruise ship with four dead bodies and at least 138 coronavirus patients now has permission to cross the Panama Canal and continue its journey toward Fort Lauderdale.

 

Several Broward County commissioners are alarmed at the idea.

 

The ship’s pending arrival will be debated at Tuesday’s county commission meeting, County Commissioner Michael Udine said.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-florida-coronavirus-palm-beach-testing-20200327-crpjllcg2jcwncvytpa3ttji6a-story.html#rt=chartbeat-flt

[Mosaic]

Does that apply to people who have been on the ship for 100 days?  Travel always means an increase of risk...,

[ducklite]

9 minutes ago, kennystwin said:

Another option would be to dock at Corpus Christi and bus the passengers to Lackland AFB in San Antonio. Lackland already has facilities and experience caring for the Diamond Princess passengers and the San Antonio military hospitals are  likely better prepared than civilian hospital for these emergency responses.

 

Just an idea.

I really like the idea of taking them all directly to a military base.  It provides for a very secure quarantine situation.  If nothing else it puts the cost of their care onto the US government who has a lot more options to get payment from HAL than a county would.  

[conwakr]

Most likely not everyone on the ship needs hospitalization. Not everyone who contracts the virus needs hospitalization. The doctors currently on the ship ought to have an idea of the needs upon arrival. 

[ducklite]

37 minutes ago, FOPMan said:

here's my personal thought: I wonder if there's been consideration of using Guantanamo Bay. All funding to be provided by Holland America. Each country with people on the ship, plus the countries of registry for the ships, could fly medical and support staff to the base.

Unused facilities could be adapted for passenger's use. Ship's crew would be responsible for all but medical services

 

People would remain in isolation, either on ship or in land facility.

 

As people cleared quarantine, Holland would fly charter flights out, dropping people off along the way,  but no commercial flights. Connections would be permitted, but only to aircraft with only passengers (eg, if it were more efficient for a private plane to make a hop from Dallas to Denver, Holland could charter a plane for that flight) and the transfer does not allow passengers to enter the terminal.

 

The American military could help, but at a minimal level of personnel- passenger interaction.

 

I mentioned this two days ago.  Then I spoke to my cousin who is Army Corp of Engineers.  He told me that Gitmo is not large enough.  Their max capacity is 600 or so prisoners and they don't have enough land suitable to build out the infrastructure they would need to add tents or portable buildings.  The small medical center there isn't equipped to handle the sick.

[conwakr]

The precedent was set with the Grand Princess so there is a history of what those passengers and crew needed and the associated costs. I don’t believe I have ever seen any information related to that. 

[FOPMan]

11 minutes ago, ducklite said:

I mentioned this two days ago.  Then I spoke to my cousin who is Army Corp of Engineers.  He told me that Gitmo is not large enough.  Their max capacity is 600 or so prisoners and they don't have enough land suitable to build out the infrastructure they would need to add tents or portable buildings.  The small medical center there isn't equipped to handle the sick.

Agreed on land space. But Zandam and Rotterdam don't have to just sail off into the sunset. They conveniently come with kitchens and passenger accommodations.

[ducklite]

5 minutes ago, FOPMan said:

Agreed on land space. But Zandam and Rotterdam don't have to just sail off into the sunset. They conveniently come with kitchens and passenger accommodations.

I'm not sure keeping healthy people on the Zandaam for a quarantine is a good idea.

[TampaMike]

Seems like a lot of people are fretting about what they cannot control nor what they have complete factual information.  The majority of dialog here is speculation.  Breadcrumbs of facts at most, do not tell the whole story. 

 

For the record, Florida is already under a state of emergency declaration.  As with hurricanes and other disasters, this permits the state to receive federal funding for emergent care and support.

 

Can we defer the invoicing for now and feed positive thoughts, prayers and healthy distraction to those in need?

[RMLincoln]

Amen to that. Let's send our loving support to those on the ships,  their families and the decision makers. And share the information we may find so it helps those desperate for info. Let's be light to thise in need. m--

Edited March 29, 2020 by RMLincoln

[3rdGenCunarder]

7 minutes ago, RMLincoln said:

Amen to that. Let's send our loving support to those on the ships,  their families and the decision makers. And share the information we may find so it helps those desperate for info. Let's be light to thise in need. m--

 

I agree. And let me add, PLEASE tell the source when posting information. Too many people don't read all the way through this long thread--some read the first page then they post old info. The situation is fluid, so please try to be current and accurate. 

[ShipsAreTheBest]

9 minutes ago, RMLincoln said:

Amen to that. Let's send our loving support to those on the ships,  their families and the decision makers. And share the information we may find so it helps those desperate for info. Let's be light to thise in need. m--

Agreed.  Way too much hysterical speculation by some on here.  Enough already.