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Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)


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3 minutes ago, old mike said:

 

Thank you  for being a voice of reason, the speculation on this thread is beyond reason and I would think it is embarassing to the vast majority of members here. I hope you stay well and have a safe journey home, via whatever transpires over the next few days. Stay safe. best wishes.

 

 

Thanks to everyone who have offered their well-wishes. It has been 5 days now since we've been confined to our rooms (with the one exception of 30 min fresh air break on the deck yesterday, which in itself wasn't an easy decision for the powers that be to come to). But I think the continued uncertainty of what will happen or where we'll end up is starting to grate on some people.

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23 minutes ago, viajante74 said:

Thanks to everyone who have offered their well-wishes. It has been 5 days now since we've been confined to our rooms (with the one exception of 30 min fresh air break on the deck yesterday, which in itself wasn't an easy decision for the powers that be to come to). But I think the continued uncertainty of what will happen or where we'll end up is starting to grate on some people.

 

Of course it is. And having little to do but sit and watch the news doesn't help. 

 

Thanks for posting. A lot of people here are hoping the ship will be able to dock somewhere and you can get home.

 

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The Sun-Sentinel (Fort Lauderdale) published an interesting editorial last evening on the decision making process involved in letting the Zaandam dock:  https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/editorials/fl-op-edit-cruise-ship-zandaam-20200326-tnbumkskn5b6zhdyt3i5cl2pn4-story.html

 

The introduction:  "Acting Port Everglades Director Glenn Wiltshire faces a terrible choice."

 

The conclusion:  "Wiltshire’s decision should mix compassion for the passengers with the need to protect public health in South Florida. It all comes down to the plan."

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An alternative plan was floated by Broward County Commissioners 

 

"“Have them dock in Miami and bring the passengers to the Miami Arena, which is owned by the cruise line, and triage and quarantine there. "  

 

The referenced Miami Arena is the AAA located at the turning basin; home to the Miami Heat owned by Mickey Arison. 

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13 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

No, 5 days.  And the number of sick onboard has tripled in those 5 days


as long as they are in that ship they can’t be considered in quarantine in terms of illness.  They need to stay in quarantine for 14 days after they are no longer sharing recirculated air with people who are ill. 

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22 hours ago, Woofbite said:

.........................

 

Why has it required this slow, convoluted process to get medical personnel and supplies to Zaandam? 

Couldn't air transport of some sort been worked out?  Helicopter from foreign soil, U.S. or foreign Military, Coast Guard, etc.

 

 

 

You have to have the assets, training and expertise to conduct such an operation off foreign shores. The current position of Zaandam does not lend itself to such a mission

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16 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

An alternative plan was floated by Broward County Commissioners 

 

"“Have them dock in Miami and bring the passengers to the Miami Arena, which is owned by the cruise line, and triage and quarantine there. "  

 

The referenced Miami Arena is the AAA located at the turning basin; home to the Miami Heat owned by Mickey Arison. 


That still doesn't solve the problem of dumping a couple hundred ill people onto an already over-burdened health care system.  They just took in over a dozen (some critically) ill crew members from Costa yesterday (all foreign nationals--who is paying for their hospital care?), and at some point the system will collapse.  

Again, I am not saying that we should leave this ship out at sea.  I am saying that if they want to take them off in South Florida, it needs to be done in a way that they can all be quarantined in a place that is secure and has the least chance of exposing others, and needs to be done by the Federal Government (FEMA or military) rather than pushing the financial and physical burden onto the State of Florida and it's tax payers.  They also need to have a way for HAL and/or the passengers and crew to pay for this service.

I'm also suggesting that there are ports in less affected areas that might be a better place for them to go to, including Charleston as SC has a low CV rate and many open beds in hospitals.

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14 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Yes and no.  While a foreign flagged ship on the high seas may be outside the law enforcement jurisdiction of the CG, it isn't outside the humanitarian jurisdiction.  In the manner the CG and other U.S. military branches aided the Carnival Triumph and the Carnival Splendor, they could very well aid the Zaandam.  The problem is logistics and location.  Equipping another HAL ship (Rotterdam) with relief supplies makes sense logistically until Zaandam is able to get to an area where U.S. assets might exist.  

 

Got it--makes perfect sense. Thanks for always having great answers!

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2 hours ago, capriccio said:

The Sun-Sentinel (Fort Lauderdale) published an interesting editorial last evening on the decision making process involved in letting the Zaandam dock:  https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/editorials/fl-op-edit-cruise-ship-zandaam-20200326-tnbumkskn5b6zhdyt3i5cl2pn4-story.html

 

The introduction:  "Acting Port Everglades Director Glenn Wiltshire faces a terrible choice."

 

The conclusion:  "Wiltshire’s decision should mix compassion for the passengers with the need to protect public health in South Florida. It all comes down to the plan."

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Tough decision to make.

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I believe that whatever decision is made will always be subject to criticism. 

 

 It is very easy to criticize however I would assume that most people simply do not have a realistic view or no view whatsoever to to  the critical information and the expert advice that will be applied to this decision.  Whatever it is. 

Edited by iancal
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Well, I was wrong, but i was going with the information i had at the time. Some passengers without symptoms will indeed be transferring to the Rotterdam today. There have been 2 cases testing positive for Covid onboard. All i am going to say for now.

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2 minutes ago, viajante74 said:

Well, I was wrong, but i was going with the information i had at the time. Some passengers without symptoms will indeed be transferring to the Rotterdam today. There have been 2 cases testing positive for Covid onboard. All i am going to say for now.

Thinking of you and wishing you the best.  Thank you for the update.

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9 minutes ago, iancal said:

I believe that whatever decision is made will always be subject to criticism. 

 

 It is very easy to criticize however I would assume that most people simply do not have a realistic view or no view whatsoever to to  the critical information and the expert advice that will be applied to this decision.  Whatever it is. 

Can't put enough "Likes" on this. So true...

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11 minutes ago, viajante74 said:

. There have been 2 cases testing positive for Covid onboard. 

 

So it appears that they had testing results then.  If the tests are reliable then moving passengers might be OK but dicey.

 

I think we must stop alarming the crew.  To serve passengers that test negative, with proper precautions, should be acceptable.  Try to put yourself in their (the transferred passengers) shoes.  If it were you, I think you would be at the breaking point.  For the crew to refuse would be somewhat mutinous.

 

 

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I also believe that the situation could be somewhat fluid.  Decisions made days ago may have to re-visited in order to react to changing conditions.  Who really knows?

 

 I doubt whether anyone on this board has access to the actual conditions on the ship or to the decision making criteria today vs. a day or a week ago.

Edited by iancal
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25 minutes ago, viajante74 said:

Well, I was wrong, but i was going with the information i had at the time. Some passengers without symptoms will indeed be transferring to the Rotterdam today. There have been 2 cases testing positive for Covid onboard. All i am going to say for now.

I assume that the two cases testing positive are on the Zaandam.  Important distinction!!!  

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26 minutes ago, viajante74 said:

Well, I was wrong, but i was going with the information i had at the time. Some passengers without symptoms will indeed be transferring to the Rotterdam today. There have been 2 cases testing positive for Covid onboard. All i am going to say for now.

 

Since you are not giving (or can't give) your source for this info, it still leaves a degree of uncertainty as to what is actually happening.  Can you give any further info as to your source?  If it is the crew, they are notoriously inaccurate in their suppositions.

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For whatever its worth this was a paragraph from Captain Albert's last post on Monday.  Wonder if for any reason whatsoever if any Rotterdam crew were not comfortable they could have been transferred to the Eurodam when they met to transfer medical supplies and extra medical staff. It looks like with the ships council that was held on the Rotterdam  this could have been the chance to not be a part of this. These are extenuating circumstances beyond belief. All of us need to hope for the best and may the force be with everyone on the Zaandam and Rotterdam. One way to see if there is any kind of a transfer between the tow ships is to keep a eye on them via marinetraffic.com or cruisemapper.com as I have noticed that tenders that are in the water do show up.

 

 

This sounds simpler than it is. Before you can race away from a port and do something with a ship for what the crew is not signed on to do, The Captain has to hold an official Ship’s Council. Thus the Officers and Crew of the ms Rotterdam were gathered in the World Stage and the captain briefly explained, what was asked of us. His question: Are you with me in this? …..was answered with a re-sounding yes and then the Rotterdam raced out of port.

Edited by rjbean4
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33 minutes ago, viajante74 said:

Well, I was wrong, but i was going with the information i had at the time. Some passengers without symptoms will indeed be transferring to the Rotterdam today. There have been 2 cases testing positive for Covid onboard. All i am going to say for now.

Transferring passengers who are currently not displaying symptoms to the Rotterdam has me wondering if the 2 positive cases are crew.  The decision to transfer is problematic for me as these passengers have not been in self isolation for at least 14 days and all passengers while in isolation have been served by crew.  The CDC has indicated in its report on the outbreak with Princess that the virus most likely spread by food handling crew.

 

My understanding that there is little way that HAL cannot assure that by transferring passengers that it is not merely transferring the virus with them.

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I am finding it increasingly frustrating that Holland has not updated on the Zaandam since March 24th.  I am finding most of my information here in this community, which I greatly appreciate.  

 

It does not seem right that there has been no update for 3 days.  Is this thinking out of line?

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From HAL’s Facebook page just now:

UPDATE - March 27, 9:45AM PT/12:45PM ET:
Zaandam is currently off the coast of Panama and rendezvoused with sister ship Rotterdam at 7:30 p.m. local time yesterday, March 26. We received approval from Panamanian authorities to conduct ship-to-ship operations at anchor between the two vessels. Medical supplies and additional medical staff were transferred to Zaandam. 

Today we announced a plan to transfer groups of healthy Zaandam guests to Rotterdam, with strict protocols for this process developed in conjunction with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Only those who have not been ill will be moved, and health screenings will be conducted before transferring. Priority for the first guests to transfer will be given to those on Zaandam with inside staterooms and who are over 70. Once aboard Rotterdam, all guests will continue to remain in their staterooms until disembarkation. Any guests who are currently ill, or in isolation as a close contact, and all crew will remain on Zaandam. 

While the onward plan for both ships is still being finalized, we continue to work with the Panamanian authorities on approval to transit the Panama Canal for sailing to Fort Lauderdale, Florida. 

Yesterday a number of patients with respiratory symptoms were tested for COVID-19 and two individuals tested positive. Out of an abundance of caution, on March 22 when Zaandam first saw a number of guests reporting to the medical center with influenza-like illness symptoms, we took immediate protective measures, including asking all guests to self-isolate in their staterooms and implementing all other appropriate precautions that have been developed in coordination with the CDC. All guests and crew received face masks yesterday and were provided with instructions on when and how to wear them.

Currently, 53 guests (4%) and 85 crew (14%) have reported to Zaandam’s medical center with influenza-like illness symptoms. There are 1,243 guests and 586 crew on board. On Zaandam there are four doctors and four nurses. On Rotterdam there are two doctors and four nurses. 

Holland America Line can confirm that four older guests have passed away on Zaandam. Our thoughts and prayers are with their families and we are doing everything we can to support them during this difficult time.

Complimentary telephone counseling services from our care partner, Empathia, have been made available to guests and crew if they would like extra support during this time. For those with family members on board, they can call the following numbers for information: 877-425-2231 or 206-626-7398. 

Zaandam was sailing a South America cruise that departed Buenos Aires, Argentina, on March 7 and was originally scheduled to end at San Antonio, Chile, on March 21. Due to global health concerns, Holland America Line made the decision to suspend its global cruise operations for 30 days and end its current cruises in progress as quickly as possible so guests could return home. No one has been off the ship since March 14 in Punta Arenas, Chile.

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  • CCHelp changed the title to Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)
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