Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[BellKat]

Ten minutes ago saw a tweet from our friend on Zaandam. They are just about through transferring guests to Rotterdam. He said they are being well treated on both ships.

[whogo]

Did we ever hear anything about Zaandam's stop off Manta, Ecuador on her way to Panama?

[Live4cruises]

Thanks for that, BellKat,

The wonderful HAL crews that we all appreciate in happier times stay true in a crisis.

[conwakr]

26 minutes ago, grayjay said:

And let's infuse a million drops of compassion into the minds of those who only worry about the costs of trying to save the lives of those needing help right now.

Agreee.  

[Tampa Girl]

32 minutes ago, whogo said:

Did we ever hear anything about Zaandam's stop off Manta, Ecuador on her way to Panama?

 

It is my understanding that both Ecuador and Peru refused the ship access.

[2+2]

  We got you. We are here for you.

USA

[Copper10-8]

Both ships currently have four tenders in the water; Rotterdam tenders #7, 8 and 9 and Zaandam tender #11. No ETDs for both ships as of yet

[sansterre]

59 minutes ago, whogo said:

Did we ever hear anything about Zaandam's stop off Manta, Ecuador on her way to Panama?

They didn't actually stop at Manta, just took a detour as if they were going to go to Manta.

Perhaps Ecuador was thinking about offering a port in the storm, or helicopter evacuation perhaps for one of the very ill?

This is just speculation.  Does anyone know anything for certain?  Copper?

[BellKat]

10 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

Both ships currently have four tenders in the water; Rotterdam tenders #7, 8 and 9 and Zaandam tender #11. No ETDs for both ships as of yet

When our friend tweeted & posted on FB he was on a tender from Zaandam to Rotterdam

[Copper10-8]

8 minutes ago, sansterre said:

They didn't actually stop at Manta, just took a detour as if they were going to go to Manta.

Perhaps Ecuador was thinking about offering a port in the storm, or helicopter evacuation perhaps for one of the very ill?

This is just speculation.  Does anyone know anything for certain?  Copper?

 

There have been no Zaandam pax/crew removed by helicopter

[Lunar Dragon]

Let’s hope and pray the passangers and crew members who need the care, get the proper care.    As to costs, of course I cannot speaking for every nationality, but most western Europeans have excellent health insurance which will pay for medical care in the US.

[Hlitner]

This situation should be more about compassion and offering good medical care to anyone, regardless if they are on a ship or land.  I am concerned for the ill passengers/crew on the Zaandam.  A lot of time is being spent anchored off the canal which means it is just that much longer until those sick passengers can access the kind of care only found at hospitals.  While the ship's medical center can offer some care, their ability is limited by the type of facility and equipment onboard.  This is not HAL's fault as they would obviously prefer to get these folks off the ship in Panama and on their way home of to a hospital.   What I find troubling are the number of ports around the world, including some in the US, who would deny necessary medical care to folks...just because they happen to be on a ship.  And the refusal to disembark passengers simply increases the odds that additional folks will fall ill....which might be the lesson learned from the Diamond Princess.

 

I am also appalled that some on CC would take a "not in my port" attitude to sick folks on ships.  We assume that most of these posters are also cruisers....and wonder how they would feel if they or a loved one was sick on a ship and refused medical care by the nearest port.

 

Hank

[Aquahound]

Gitmo is not, and never has been an option.  There are numerous reasons why Gitmo would be a bad choice.  

 

I agree with ducklite in that Key West is also not an option.  That's my home town and I know there is no way Mayor Johnston will allow that.  Like ducklite said, the hospital is too small and does not have a trauma center.  I believe the ship is small enough to dock at the Coast Guard base but again, there aren't enough resources there to set up a field hospital.  

 

It has to be a larger city with better resources.  

[Himself]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

This situation should be more about compassion and offering good medical care to anyone, regardless if they are on a ship or land.  I am concerned for the ill passengers/crew on the Zaandam.  A lot of time is being spent anchored off the canal which means it is just that much longer until those sick passengers can access the kind of care only found at hospitals.  While the ship's medical center can offer some care, their ability is limited by the type of facility and equipment onboard.  This is not HAL's fault as they would obviously prefer to get these folks off the ship in Panama and on their way home of to a hospital.   What I find troubling are the number of ports around the world, including some in the US, who would deny necessary medical care to folks...just because they happen to be on a ship.  And the refusal to disembark passengers simply increases the odds that additional folks will fall ill....which might be the lesson learned from the Diamond Princess.

 

I am also appalled that some on CC would take a "not in my port" attitude to sick folks on ships.  We assume that most of these posters are also cruisers....and wonder how they would feel if they or a loved one was sick on a ship and refused medical care by the nearest port.

 

Hank

Hank:  I agree with 100%.  

[BellKat]

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

This situation should be more about compassion and offering good medical care to anyone, regardless if they are on a ship or land.  I am concerned for the ill passengers/crew on the Zaandam.  A lot of time is being spent anchored off the canal which means it is just that much longer until those sick passengers can access the kind of care only found at hospitals.  While the ship's medical center can offer some care, their ability is limited by the type of facility and equipment onboard.  This is not HAL's fault as they would obviously prefer to get these folks off the ship in Panama and on their way home of to a hospital.   What I find troubling are the number of ports around the world, including some in the US, who would deny necessary medical care to folks...just because they happen to be on a ship.  And the refusal to disembark passengers simply increases the odds that additional folks will fall ill....which might be the lesson learned from the Diamond Princess.

 

I am also appalled that some on CC would take a "not in my port" attitude to sick folks on ships.  We assume that most of these posters are also cruisers....and wonder how they would feel if they or a loved one was sick on a ship and refused medical care by the nearest port.

 

Hank

Thank you for saying this. Hopefully some here will heed what you say. It appalls me that so many from Florida have that attitude while so many Floridians are still gathering on beaches. Hmmm

[Himself]

2 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

Gitmo is not, and never has been an option.  There are numerous reasons why Gitmo would be a bad choice.  

 

I agree with ducklite in that Key West is also not an option.  That's my home town and I know there is no way Mayor Johnston will allow that.  Like ducklite said, the hospital is too small and does not have a trauma center.  I believe the ship is small enough to dock at the Coast Guard base but again, there aren't enough resources there to set up a field hospital.  

 

It has to be a larger city with better resources.  

Fort Lauderdale would be ideal, in my humble opinion

[phil09]

41 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

This situation should be more about compassion and offering good medical care to anyone, regardless if they are on a ship or land.  I am concerned for the ill passengers/crew on the Zaandam.  A lot of time is being spent anchored off the canal which means it is just that much longer until those sick passengers can access the kind of care only found at hospitals.  While the ship's medical center can offer some care, their ability is limited by the type of facility and equipment onboard.  This is not HAL's fault as they would obviously prefer to get these folks off the ship in Panama and on their way home of to a hospital.   What I find troubling are the number of ports around the world, including some in the US, who would deny necessary medical care to folks...just because they happen to be on a ship.  And the refusal to disembark passengers simply increases the odds that additional folks will fall ill....which might be the lesson learned from the Diamond Princess.

 

I am also appalled that some on CC would take a "not in my port" attitude to sick folks on ships.  We assume that most of these posters are also cruisers....and wonder how they would feel if they or a loved one was sick on a ship and refused medical care by the nearest port.

 

Hank

 

With you 100% also Hank.  There's been mention of compassion here and there in this thread - what HAL is doing getting the second ship in place to provide what were surely critical medical supplies and staff is a great example.  Just my opinion - forget the arguments of why did HAL sail, why did the passengers get on this cruise and who is going to pay for it.  We as a human species tend to show compassion for our fellow human - even more so when there is a dire need.  Getting the passengers and crew to a location where appropriate care can be effectively applied should be the priority.  

 

The rejection of true help by countries in South America (and the State of Hawaii in the case of the Maasdam) were a failure of leadership in those locations.  As an American citizen myself, I hope and expect these two ships will dock in an American port and ALL the people on board be helped.  It is really what we should do.

[LMaxwell]

12 hours ago, 2+2 said:

The US will step up to the plate. They have the knowledge and ability to take care of the passengers and community safely. That is what we do. 

 

Is there a published plan for what happens next at Port Everglades? 

[capriccio]

2 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Is there a published plan for what happens next at Port Everglades? 

 

I haven't seen a published plan; the most I've seen is in post #774.  Earlier the Sun-Sentinel said the decision was up to the port (see post #355).  In that cited article the process was described as:

 

(Acting Port Everglades Director) Wiltshire’s priority must be to protect public health in Broward. His decision thus will depend on information he receives from the Zaandam’s owner, Holland America Line.

 

Under his powers, Wiltshire can deny the Zaandam a berth if he justifies his refusal. Informing Wiltshire will be the Unified Command structure put into place after the Ebola outbreak in 2014. The group includes local first responders, the Florida Department of Health, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Customs and Border Protection, and the Coast Guard.]

 

Though all of those agencies will offer guidance, Wiltshire will decide.

[Copper10-8]

2 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Is there a published plan for what happens next at Port Everglades? 

 

Not a published one as of yet! Me thinks it will be a similar protocol as to what took place in Oakland, CA after Grand Princess docked there on March 9. There very possibly could be some different military installations involved besides Dobbins Air Reserve Base, GA and Lackland AFB, TX.  Homestead Air Reserve Base, FL., MCAS Beaufort, SC, MCAS Cherry Point, NC, MCB Camp Lejeune, NC come to mind

 

Grand Princess:

• 1045 individuals disembarked the Grand Princess
• 613 people transported by bus to Travis Air Force Base
• 42 people transported by charter flight to Marine Corps Air Station Miramar near San Diego
• 124 people transported by charter flight to Dobbins Air Reserve Base near Marietta Georgia
• 98 individuals transported by chartered flight Lackland Air Force Base near San Antonio, Texas
• 168 passengers were repatriated via a chartered flight to the United Kingdom

 

[Tampa Girl]

24 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Not a published one as of yet! Me thinks it will be a similar protocol as to what took place in Oakland, CA after Grand Princess docked there on March 9. There very possibly could be some different military installations involved besides Dobbins Air Reserve Base, GA and Lackland AFB, TX.  Homestead Air Reserve Base, FL., MCAS Beaufort, SC, MCAS Cherry Point, NC, MCB Camp Lejeune, NC come to mind

 

Grand Princess:

• 1045 individuals disembarked the Grand Princess
• 613 people transported by bus to Travis Air Force Base
• 42 people transported by charter flight to Marine Corps Air Station Miramar near San Diego
• 124 people transported by charter flight to Dobbins Air Reserve Base near Marietta Georgia
• 98 individuals transported by chartered flight Lackland Air Force Base near San Antonio, Texas
• 168 passengers were repatriated via a chartered flight to the United Kingdom

 

 

What about MacDill AFB in Tampa?  USAF, U.S. Central Command.

[Copper10-8]

6 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

What about MacDill AFB in Tampa?  USAF, U.S. Central Command.

 

 

Never been there so don't know if they can handle it. If they can, definitely a possibility

[sansterre]

12 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

What about MacDill AFB in Tampa?  USAF, U.S. Central Command.

HAH - I was just going to post this from Wikipedia:

MacDill Air Force Base is an active United States Air Force installation located 4 miles south-southwest of downtown Tampa, Florida. 

(For those of you who have sailed in and out of Tampa Bay, it is visible to the West.)

Edited March 29, 2020 by sansterre

[LMaxwell]

4 hours ago, ducklite said:

I really like the idea of taking them all directly to a military base.  It provides for a very secure quarantine situation.  If nothing else it puts the cost of their care onto the US government who has a lot more options to get payment from HAL than a county would.  

Most, if not all, cruise contracts put the costs back on the guest for evacuation and/or quarantine.  I have no idea how this was handled for Diamond or Grand Princess.  It seems like in the earlier days of the virus companies were more able to foot the bill and governments able to dedicate more resources to these ships arriving w guests needing quarantine.  Now that the situation has grown by magnitudes I am not sure what the plans are.  I hope the Broward County commissioners come to a practical solution taking into account their available resources and capabilities; and what they project by the time the ship may arrive. 

[Max2003]

16 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

What about MacDill AFB in Tampa?  USAF, U.S. Central Command.

 

We have a lot of military based off the west coast of Florida as well --Eglin AFB, NAS Pensacola,  Keesler AFB and even NAS Corpus Christy to name a few.   We will find a way or make one!!!!