Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[riverrat]

1 hour ago, Himself said:

Perhaps to New Orleans or  the Port of Galveston, Texas  with the Rotterdam going to Port Everglades.

Port of Galveston is a good choice and my guess. International airport and top medical care. Ellington AF base is close as well. 
Praying for all affected esp those on board the ships. 

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, Himself said:

Perhaps to New Orleans or  the Port of Galveston, Texas  with the Rotterdam going to Port Everglades.

 

IMO, New Orleans would be a great choice.  The convention center has been turned in to a field hospital for recovering COVID patients, plus there are 2 large hotels connected to the terminal building.  Passengers would never have to leave the building and could be walked/rolled directly to their quarantine room or the field hospital.  

 

But unfortunately, Louisiana is worse off than Florida.  They may not have the bandwidth to accept a cruise ship like this.  

Edited March 30, 2020 by Aquahound

[DaveRRT]

we don't even know what the sick people have , could be the old pesky noro . dosnt matter they will be ushered off and put in quarantine.  They will be on us soil and safe.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

The map shows the Rotterdam heading to port Everglades and the Zaandam heading to CL SAI.  Where is that?

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 minutes ago, DaveRRT said:

we don't even know what the sick people have , could be the old pesky noro . dosnt matter they will be ushered off and put in quarantine.  They will be on us soil and safe.

 

Not noro. That's gastrointestinal (with a vengance). Corona is a lot like flu in its symptoms--cough, fever, aches... 

[KAKcruiser]

Port of San Antonio, Texas?

[rafinmd]

Just now, KAKcruiser said:

Port of San Antonio, Texas?

San Antonio, Chile.  Somehow an old destination got re-entered.

 

Roy

[bluesea321]

1 minute ago, KAKcruiser said:

Port of San Antonio, Texas?

 

There is no port in San Antonio, Texas.  It is 150 miles from the coast.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

Yeah, when I enter the code, it said Port of San Antonio, but last I looked, San Antonio had many wonderful attributes, but it was not a port.  Chile makes more sense.

 

They may not yet have a destination, so an old one was entered.

Edited March 31, 2020 by CruisingAlong4Now

[rkacruiser]

34 minutes ago, capriccio said:

The Sun-Sentinel (Fort Lauderdale) has just published an opinion piece by the HAL president entitled:  Holland America president issues plea on behalf of those stranded at sea

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/commentary/fl-op-com-zaandam-holland-america-plea-20200330-2mw56itc65dbvk2kicyvcv4fhi-story.html

 

An excellent written piece by Mr. Ashford!

 

For those who are in the NIMBY mode, wherever they live, it's time to put oneself in the shoes of those guests and crew of the Zaandam and Rotterdam.

 

Treat others as you would wish to be treated.

[suzk2275a]

10 minutes ago, CruisingAlong4Now said:

The map shows the Rotterdam heading to port Everglades and the Zaandam heading to CL SAI.  Where is that?

CL SAI Is port of San Antonio 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by suzk2275a

[bluesea321]

16 minutes ago, DaveRRT said:

we don't even know what the sick people have...

 

From the President of HAL:  "As of March 30, 76 guests and 117 crew on Zaandam have influenza-like illness, including eight people who have tested positive for COVID-19.

[Sea Viewer]

Crew members from Oasis of the Seas were brought into Port Everglades by lifeboat. ? will be medevaced may have  Covid 19.Oasis was not allowed to enter port. Similar procedure to crew evacs from 2 Costa ships to Miami last week.

 

[St. Louis Sal]

4 hours ago, rabidstoat said:

 

Yeah, I had a forward suite on a NCL ship once, and it was very near the bridge. I had to keep outdoor lights off and drapes closed at night when we were sailing so as not to adversely affect the bridge crew.

 

I had a cabin on the Koningsdam that was in front of the bridge.  They controlled our balcony lights and there was a sign in the cabin asking us to keep our draperies closed at night so as not to interfere with navigation.

 

St. Louis Sal

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 minute ago, St. Louis Sal said:

 

I had a cabin on the Koningsdam that was in front of the bridge.  They controlled our balcony lights and there was a sign in the cabin asking us to keep our draperies closed at night so as not to interfere with navigation.

 

St. Louis Sal

 

 

The Commodore Club (forward lounge) on QM2 has to keep the curtains closed at night to avoid interfering with visibility from the bridge. 

[rafinmd]

I wonder if they've adjusted to the reduced occupancy of the ships.  It seems like moving some crew who have been doubled up in small cabins could go one to a cabin with vacated passenger cabins.  Seems like that could help curtail the spread. 

 

Roy

[NorthwestCruiser]

The passengers are going to come back to a very different world when they are finally let home -- which might not be long since current practice in New York is apparently to send people home after their symptoms resolve, rather than testing negative twice as was done in China.   (We just don't have the ability to keep people longer.)    I hope they stocked up on toilet paper, beans, rice, and pasta before they left, maybe Holland America could send them out with a roll or two?

[Max2003]

The Z and R are flying in tight formation 2 NM apart,  However their bearing now seems to indicate that they will pass west of Jamaica and proceed to the opening between Haiti and Cuba.  But, but that puts them passing - wait for it -Guantanamo. Hmm!    

On a more serious note, that might signal resolution of where they will land.  That is them in the lower left off Nicaragua.  They are so close that they appear as one.

 

[Sunshine3601]

3 hours ago, Max2003 said:

 Click here

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-77.1/centery:8.5/zoom:5

 

 

This is a very well written article that everyone should read to understand why there was a struggle with letting the Z thru passage in panama.  

My thoughts and prayers are with all passengers.  I am sure they have alot of anxiety with the unknown at this time.  I know when I feel sick I just want to be home in my own bed.  Hopefully someday soon they will be.

[3rdGenCunarder]

13 minutes ago, NorthwestCruiser said:

The passengers are going to come back to a very different world when they are finally let home -- which might not be long since current practice in New York is apparently to send people home after their symptoms resolve, rather than testing negative twice as was done in China.   (We just don't have the ability to keep people longer.)    I hope they stocked up on toilet paper, beans, rice, and pasta before they left, maybe Holland America could send them out with a roll or two?

 

As they say on game shows, "a lovely parting gift." Where I am, hoarding seems to have eased. Several of our grocery stores actually have TP in stock.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

Wow! I hadn't thought of it.  All that TP just off shore on all those cruise ships.  Hmm. Maybe HA could bribe their way in?

[npcl]

1 hour ago, Host Anne said:

Hi everyone ~ WOW....I get home from work and there are a bazillion more pages to this thread.  I have to admit the first thing i did this morning was to check and make sure  Z and R got through the canal.  LOVED the  photos and video of the transit.  I've been watching their progress all day.  It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.  I, too, was appalled that our governor used the word "dump" when referring to Zaandam and Rotterdam passengers. I was so appalled that I did something I never do.....sent him an email.  To other Floridians who feel the same, I'd encourage you to do so as well.

 

In my "real" job we book a ton of meetings, events & conventions and the challenge with using a closed hotel for Zaandam and Rotterdam passengers is that there would be no one available to work in those facilities. I highly doubt that the South Florida area between Ft. Lauderdale and Miami have sufficient medical personnel to oversee the facility and  you certainly aren't going to put healthy citizens in the building to work.  In other words, it's more than just opening up an empty hotel.

 

I'd like to thank all of you who have contributed to this thread with some great information and discussion.  Our goal is to keep this thread and exchange of information going so we can all follow the Zaandam and Rotterdam in the coming days.  To those who have family onboard, a special thanks for letting us know they are OK.  Please let them know that everyone here on this Cruise Critic thread are wishing for their safe and healthy return to family and loved ones. 

Well the cruise line does have medical staff from their ships that could be used.  With minimal staffing they could reduce medical staffing to minimum.  With the ships close together near each near Princess Cay they could even share medical staff reducing even further.  Then use that staff to provide medical support for the hotel.

[SightCRR]

Dockman, I want to express my thanks to you for your postings about the current situation and I wish you and your family all the best. Your posts along with very few others are all that seem worth reading. The rest is just a bunch of noise.

sightcrr 

[Host Anne]

6 minutes ago, npcl said:

Well the cruise line does have medical staff from their ships that could be used.  With minimal staffing they could reduce medical staffing to minimum.  With the ships close together near each near Princess Cay they could even share medical staff reducing even further.  Then use that staff to provide medical support for the hotel.

 

You still have to feed people, keep the facility clean, security, etc.  It's more than just medical staff.  I'm not saying it could or couldn't be done; it's just a bit more complicated than opening a closed hotel.

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

Keep in mind that California almost did not want the ship either. I seem the recall that initially there was also some resistance and that was for a ship that initially left from San Francisco. They only accepted it after arrangements were made with the other countries to repatriate their citizens, and the feds to handle the quarantine.  There were relatively few ill passengers.

 

The situation at this time is certainly more complex. Far more ill, the number of community cases are further along.  The cruise originated in another country.  There is not an unused pier to dock the ship at as in Oakland. The majority of passengers on the Grand were from California and there was adequate quarantine space relatively close by at Travis and a bit further away at Miramar.

 

Not that it cannot be resolved, only that the situations are different and this one is more difficult.

 

 

You make some good and valid points, thanks!

 

Look, no one is saying this, if approved by the politicians, will be an easy operation and yes, it is a different and more complex situation than the one involving GP in Oakland on March 9 (and subsequent days) It will take planning, dedicated people and the successful carrying out of a mission. 

 

Yes, Grand Princess was sent to an unused terminal in Oakland's outer harbor. It seems to me that berth 29 at Port Everglades, only used by cruise ships when PE is having a busy day, and located south of the more commonly used berth 26, could be used for this purpose. Not far behind #29 is the southport turning notch, another possibility. If you look on the ptz webcam AIS map, the Yorktown Express, a container ship is moored there as we speak

 

 

As I stated from my box, a major event like this will require collaboration between numerous parties; HAL, local, county, state and federal governments, incl. all the governments representing the various nations from where ZADM and RTDMs pax hail. Like Grand Princess, charter (or military) aircraft need to be obtained to get those non-U.S. folks home for further treatment and/or, at a minimum, two weeks worth of quarantine.  If you don't want to use a commercial airport like FLL or MIA to get the foreign nationals home, bus those folks to a military air base and use it, there are several in Florida. 

 

The nine (latest count) confirmed COVID-19 patients need a medical facility with staff and equipment to treat them. Btw, Grand Princess had twenty-one (2 pax & 19 crew) confirmed COVID-19 cases when she docked in Oakland.

 

Homestead Air Reserve Base, FL (Miami-Dade County) is a prime candidate to serve as the "Travis AFB for South Florida." Lackland AFB/Joint Base San Antonio, TX, used for Grand Princess pax, is closer to FLL than it is to Oakland, CA. Dobbins Air Reserve Base, GA  (Marietta, GA) also used for GP pax, is a heck of a lot closer to FLL then it is to Oakland. That leaves a replacement for MCAS Miramar, CA (San Diego), the fourth military installation used for GP passengers. Well, the jarheads, those men and women with a "can do" attitude, happen to have two air stations (Cherry Point and Beaufort) as well as a gigantic base (Camp Lejeune) in both North and South Carolina. AGain, this will take planning and preparation. The longer they, the people that will make the decisions, wait, the longer the hardship for the pax, and crew, of Zaandam and Rotterdam.

 

I fully agree with the last sentence in your post! 

 

Stay safe!