Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)

[DFD1]

We are in central Florida as well. I agree with you. The sky is not falling.... Keep Calm and Carry On.

[ducklite]

28 minutes ago, Jimmycruiser said:

Stop spreading false information and hysteria. I am in Florida and you must be listening to fake news or just prone to panicking. Orlando hospitals are not near the breaking point yet. We are in better shape to help than many others at the moment.

 

You would feel differently if you were one of the passengers. Just hope they will be okay.

You must not know anyone who works for ORMC or Florida Hospital.  I have about 40 friends who work between the two.  My friends are exhausted, they are running out of supplies, and they are regretting getting into healthcare.

If I were one of the passengers I would not want to be getting off in a port with no place to shelter and feed me and overcrowded hospitals.  I'd rather continue on for another 12 hours to Charleston.

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by ducklite

[cat shepard]

26 minutes ago, Jimmycruiser said:

Stop spreading false information and hysteria. I am in Florida and you must be listening to fake news or just prone to panicking. Orlando hospitals are not near the breaking point yet. We are in better shape to help than many others at the moment.

 

You would feel differently if you were one of the passengers. Just hope they will be okay.

 

Jimmy, light just dawned as I was reading your message. Broward county is feeling the crunch. But it has not reached me either - I am just North of Daytona.

 

I also know that we can not trust the numbers yet, it is too early. Even my County Sheriff says we can not trust the numbers.

 

But the human being in me says we have to find a way to bring this ship in. Perhaps Port Canaveral could take them. Orlando airport is close by. The hospital transport might be a challenge, but every minute we seem to be thrown a new challenge. 

[lvz2cruz]

6 minutes ago, ducklite said:

You must not know anyone who works for ORMC or Florida Hospital.  I have about 40 friends who work between the two.  My friends are exhausted, they are running out of supplies, and they are regretting getting into healthcare.

If I were one of the passengers I would not want to be getting off in a port with no place to shelter and feed me and overcrowded hospitals.  I'd rather continue on for another 12 hours to Charleston.

 

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.  

Putting emotions aside and looking at facts, Florida's economy is grounded on tourism.   It benefits greatly.  You do also by not having state income taxes as a result.  Cruise ships are homeported in southern Florida year round and bring tourist dollars into several other ports throughout the state.  

People in healthcare throughout the world are exhausted right now and will be for the near future, not just your community. The ones I know are eager to do everything they can for everyone.  No time for complaining and it doesn't help anyway.
For you to say the ship cannot come there and should instead go to Charleston is shocking.   I'm sure you would not want the ships to all go there in good times. 

The American spirit is sticking together and helping, not complaining and passing the buck.

I'm praying all turns out for these very exhausted travelers facing another hurdle.   They are getting more adventures than they signed up for.  

[mkkao924]

3 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Was there no US Navy ship in Panama who could meet the ship faster and bunker fuel for them?  Just thinking outside the box here.  

 

As for the 300+ ill - I really don't care how many are ill.  All those onboard need to be quarantined when they disembark, wherever that may be.  Florida is experiencing very rapid growth in the number of cases of COVID-19; they need to worry about and take care of their residents.  The Feds need to step us to quarantine and treat the ship passengers.

 

 

With the beach crowd, not surprised Florida experiencing rapid growth of confirmed cases.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/coronavirus/spring-breakers-flood-florida-beaches-undeterred-by-coronavirus/2246764/?fbclid=IwAR1uXUrxRQtDCpR6ChA2NK_4eoEelvgzkDgtJwLtsKurmwMcU1qNCmC2SJA

[cat shepard]

Here is an illustration of why the folk in the Southern part of Florida are concerned about the Zaandam.  
 

But Florida is a very looooooooong state. I am sure we could figure something out. Especially if no one tests positive for Covid-19. We will definitely know by then.

 

 

[nobog]

Rotterdam the yellow upper left, Zaandam in red circle:

 

[JazzyV]

From the HAL website today:

ZAANDAM: Thirty guests (2.4%) and 47 crew (8%) have now reported to Zaandam’s medical center with influenza-like illness symptoms. Out of an abundance of caution and immediately after noting the early signs of elevated numbers of illness, all guests were asked to remain in their staterooms on March 22. There are 1,243 guests and 586 crew on board.

 

Zaandam is following response protocols that have been developed in coordination with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Since it is flu season, and COVID-19 testing is not currently available on board, it is difficult to determine the cause of these elevated cases at this time.

 

Since all ports along Zaandam’s route are closed to cruise ships, Holland America Line has deployed Rotterdam to rendevous with Zaandam and provide extra supplies, staff, COVID-19 test kits and other support as needed. Carrying 611 crew and no guests, Rotterdam departed Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, at 3 p.m. local time on March 22 and the current schedule is for the two ships to meet by the evening of March 26 off the coast of Panama.

[ducklite]

3 minutes ago, lvz2cruz said:

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.  

Putting emotions aside and looking at facts, Florida's economy is grounded on tourism.   It benefits greatly.  You do also by not having state income taxes as a result.  Cruise ships are homeported in southern Florida year round and bring tourist dollars into several other ports throughout the state.  

People in healthcare throughout the world are exhausted right now and will be for the near future, not just your community. The ones I know are eager to do everything they can for everyone.  No time for complaining and it doesn't help anyway.
For you to say the ship cannot come there and should instead go to Charleston is shocking.   I'm sure you would not want the ships to all go there in good times. 

The American spirit is sticking together and helping, not complaining and passing the buck.

I'm praying all turns out for these very exhausted travelers facing another hurdle.   They are getting more adventures than they signed up for.  

What my friends who work for the hospitals are telling me is not an opinion.  It's a fact.  Jerry Demings just put Orange County on lock down starting Thursday and lasting two weeks.  That should tell you how serious it has become.  

Frankly the cruise industry isn't that big of a deal in Florida when compared to the theme parks, beaches, and convention industries.  The reality is that it employs very few Floridians and the people who take cruises spend their money on the ships and islands, not in Florida.  Instead of doting on the cruise industry--and the travel industry in general, I'd rather see Florida continue to invest in tech, manufacturing, higher education and research, and agriculture and grow the economy with those.

[ducklite]

41 minutes ago, cat shepard said:

 

Jimmy, light just dawned as I was reading your message. Broward county is feeling the crunch. But it has not reached me either - I am just North of Daytona.

 

I also know that we can not trust the numbers yet, it is too early. Even my County Sheriff says we can not trust the numbers.

 

But the human being in me says we have to find a way to bring this ship in. Perhaps Port Canaveral could take them. Orlando airport is close by. The hospital transport might be a challenge, but every minute we seem to be thrown a new challenge. 

 

MCO already has five--or is it six now?--TSA agents with COVID-19.  We can't let those people just get off the ship, they MUST be quarantined for two weeks.  Period.  

[ducklite]

28 minutes ago, mkkao924 said:

 

With the beach crowd, not surprised Florida experiencing rapid growth of confirmed cases.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/coronavirus/spring-breakers-flood-florida-beaches-undeterred-by-coronavirus/2246764/?fbclid=IwAR1uXUrxRQtDCpR6ChA2NK_4eoEelvgzkDgtJwLtsKurmwMcU1qNCmC2SJA

Yeah, the Governor was stupid to not shut down spring break two weeks ago.

[cat shepard]

46 minutes ago, ducklite said:

 

MCO already has five--or is it six now?--TSA agents with COVID-19.  We can't let those people just get off the ship, they MUST be quarantined for two weeks.  Period.  

Won’t  they have been quarantined for two weeks, by the time they reach FL?

 

If not, I am with you - a 2 week quarantine is critical. And longer if anyone tests positive for Covid-19, since the CDC just issued a release today that the virus might live 17 or more days.  We still have a great deal to learn.

 

But we can learn it, and be cautious, and still not forsake our humanity.

[Captain_Morgan]

3 minutes ago, cat shepard said:

Won’t  they have been quarantined for two weeks, by the time they reach FL?

 

 

Isn't that what they thought onboard Diamond Princess?  Quarantine onboard a ship clearly doesn't work due to the simple logistics of the operation...crew still inter-mingling, passengers socializing on balconies, etc and they wonder why the numbers continue to rise?!?

 

Here's hoping that this is nothing but flu, but how likely is it that common flu would spread like this in the day and age of flu shots, etc?  Not saying thats the silver bullet, but its a mitigating factor for something that has mitigation unlike COVID-19.

[zonacruiser25]

It is sad that a thread for the Zaandam (and sadly way to many other threads dealing with crisis) get hijacked by 2 or 3 posters that want to prove that they are smarter than others or have better facts.  Holland is working hard and doing some great things to support Zaandam and her passengers.  Once a final destination is negotiated it will likely be organized chaos, wherever it is.  I hope that the extra staff and supplies can help Zaandam to control the illness on board and look forward to hearing what is really happening with the ship and all aboard.

[gatour]

8 hours ago, ducklite said:

They are closed.  By order of the Governor. They can't legally reopen. And no one in their right mind wants a bunch of people who have been exposed in their hotels.  We can't get food for the people who live here (shelves are bare) and we're certainly not going to open a hotel and have to feed 2000 more exposed people via room service--restaurants can't open.

 

You are incorrect about hotels being ordered closed by the governor of the state of Florida.

 

Food is available on the shelves.  While it may not be a full selection, there is food available.

 

Restaurants are open for take out and/or delivery.  My dinner tonight consisted of going a local Thai restaurant (that we normally eat at the restaurant) for a to-go order.  This was in support of the impromptu National Take Out from a restaurant Day.

[dockman]

I wonder if all HAL cruise staff is required to get flu shots every year?

[ducklite]

Sure, quarantined on a ship with a population of sick people almost doubled from the day before.  That is not a quarantine.  

[conwakr]

6 hours ago, ducklite said:

I'm sorry, it was a typo--I was thinking about the growth in cases in Florida so far this week.  There are however 42 reported sick between passengers and crew.  And again, we can't care for them in Florida.  Our hospitals are full.  

Are we hearing that they are so sick they need to be hospitalized?  

[HAL4NOW]

1 hour ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Here's hoping that this is nothing but flu, but how likely is it that common flu would spread like this in the day and age of flu shots, etc?  Not saying thats the silver bullet, but its a mitigating factor for something that has mitigation unlike COVID-19.

The flu shot covers some influenza, but not all strains. It is based on a best guess as to what strain of flu will show up. Many factors can cause a flu outbreak, even within a highly vaccinated population.

[ducklite]

24 minutes ago, gatour said:

You are incorrect about hotels being ordered closed by the governor of the state of Florida.

 

Food is available on the shelves.  While it may not be a full selection, there is food available.

 

Restaurants are open for take out and/or delivery.  My dinner tonight consisted of going a local Thai restaurant (that we normally eat at the restaurant) for a to-go order.  This was in support of the impromptu National Take Out from a restaurant Day.

Sorry, Miami-dace closed hotels by order of the Mayor.  
 

I still think that unless the Federal government can figure out a way to transport everyone on that ship Directly to a Government quarantine facility and medical facility without taking Existing Hospital beds from Floridians, we should not accept that ship.  

[conwakr]

13 minutes ago, dockman said:

I wonder if all HAL cruise staff is required to get flu shots every year?

I get a flu shot every year...but I got flu this year.  It was mild but I ran a fever, ached and had a cough (that lasted a long time)  and no...it was not Covid as this was December and I had not traveled internationally nor had anyone I was in close contact with.  

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by conwakr
typo

[ducklite]

3 minutes ago, conwakr said:

Are we hearing that they are so sick they need to be hospitalized?  

So you want them to just mosey around the rest?  As if a couple hours ago it’s now 70 people sick. 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Som

Isn't that what they thought onboard Diamond Princess?  Quarantine onboard a ship clearly doesn't work due to the simple logistics of the operation...crew still inter-mingling, passengers socializing on balconies, etc and they wonder why the numbers continue to rise?!?

 

Here's hoping that this is nothing but flu, but how likely is it that common flu would spread like this in the day and age of flu shots, etc?  Not saying thats the silver bullet, but its a mitigating factor for something that has mitigation unlike COVID-19.

I just wanted to comment on your last paragraph.  The "common flu" as you call it, kills as many as sixty thousand Americans in a year.  Sure, we have a flu vaccine....but about half the country does not even bother to get that vaccine.  They prefer to take their chances with a disease that kills tens of thousands every year.  If Dr. Fauci were to announce, tomorrow, that we had a good vaccine for COVID-19, it is likely that fewer then 1/2 of the population would even bother to get that shot.  And by the way, consider that it is likely that about half the passengers on a cruise have not had flu shots, pneumovax, etc.  This defeats the herd effect of vaccines and drastically increases the mortality/morbidity rates from many diseases.  Go figure.  When I worked for our state's Health Department our talented Secretary of Health told us that about half the folks apparently think its up to the other half to protect them!

 

Hank

[sail7seas]

On 3/22/2020 at 6:58 PM, NCTribeFan said:

And still no cancellation of our 4/21 FLL-Montreal sailing on Zaandam.  I'm trying to be patient.

 

Not sure why the cruise lines didn't immediately stop all sailing on the date they announced that they were temporarily suspending all cruses.  But those that were at sea continued to sail.

 

Maybe I would've sailed had i been booked but I think that even by 3/7, it was becoming apparent that this wasn't "just the flu" and that being on a cruise ship would be just about the worst place for the spread of a new illness for which no one had any immunity.

 

Oh well.  It's obvious that steps that could've been taken weren't, and not just the cruise lines.

 

Hope they recover and that if it is Covid-19 that they didn't spread it around South America when they were asymptomatic!

   I hope    this  all  re solves in the best possible way and all who  are ill recover   soon and fully.  The  snippet   of info here does not sound good.   .

[conwakr]

2 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Sorry, Miami-dace closed hotels by order of the Mayor.  
 

I still think that unless the Federal government can figure out a way to transport everyone on that ship Directly to a Government quarantine facility and medical facility without taking Existing Hospital beds from Floridians, we should not accept that ship.  

The rapid tests are quickly becoming available.  Makes more sense to test the sick before we panic and decide everyone needs to be quarantined.  If the sick have Covid then there is a problem. If the sick have flu then we do what we've always done in this country. Most states aren't testing eveyone anymore to begin with and if people call and have flu-like symptoms they are being told stay home from work and call us if you get worse.