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Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)


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2 minutes ago, az_tchr said:

Almost 600 are US or Canadian.  Those are not complicated.  US citizens not being allowed on shore!  What have we become.  The others I agree are harder, have not seen a nationality list, but likely many from South America.  

And I do agree the cruise should never have happened but finding blame is not helpful.  Political BS is neck deep.

Would it be possible to go forward during this crisis?  Later maybe figure out how to do things better.

 

Regarding US military bases, only the 300 US citizens are pertinent.  Canadians are still foreign nationals so yes, they are just as complicated as the crew and other foreign passengers.  I'm not injecting opinion on that comment; just giving the facts.

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Something to chew on 😬

 

Part of the Carnival Corp plan for tomorrow:

 

6 a.m.: MS Rotterdam arrives at Pier 2 in Port Everglades. All departing guests will be cleared for departure temperature-checked onboard prior to departure. Any with a fever will not be allowed to disembark.
 
6:30 a.m.: MS Zaandam arrives at Pier 4. All departing guests will be cleared for departure temperature-checked onboard prior to departure. Any with a fever will not be allowed to disembark.
 
6:30 a.m.: Buses positioned alongside Port Everglades Terminal at Piers 2 and 4 for transport to FLL or MIA.
 
9 a.m.: First bus convoy arrival to MIA southeast gate. MIA security to escort buses on to tarmac for designated flight; begin first aircraft loading (ground handler for all flights will be Swissport International, Ltd.). Luggage aircraft loading will be required. Each aircraft to depart once loading is complete based on slot time. TSA will be observing to ensure crew members board each aircraft, but no further crewmember or luggage screening will be conducted.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Copper10-8 said:

Something to chew on 😬

 

Part of the Carnival Corp plan for tomorrow:

 

6 a.m.: MS Rotterdam arrives at Pier 2 in Port Everglades. All departing guests will be cleared for departure temperature-checked onboard prior to departure. Any with a fever will not be allowed to disembark.
 
6:30 a.m.: MS Zaandam arrives at Pier 4. All departing guests will be cleared for departure temperature-checked onboard prior to departure. Any with a fever will not be allowed to disembark.
 
6:30 a.m.: Buses positioned alongside Port Everglades Terminal at Piers 2 and 4 for transport to FLL or MIA.
 
9 a.m.: First bus convoy arrival to MIA southeast gate. MIA security to escort buses on to tarmac for designated flight; begin first aircraft loading (ground handler for all flights will be Swissport International, Ltd.). Luggage aircraft loading will be required. Each aircraft to depart once loading is complete based on slot time. TSA will be observing to ensure crew members board each aircraft, but no further crewmember or luggage screening will be conducted.

 

 

 

Thank you, Copper. I hope that's accepted. That will get a lot of the passengers on their way home with minimal contact with locals.

 

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1 minute ago, Copper10-8 said:

Something to chew on 😬

 

Part of the Carnival Corp plan for tomorrow:

 

6 a.m.: MS Rotterdam arrives at Pier 2 in Port Everglades. All departing guests will be cleared for departure temperature-checked onboard prior to departure. Any with a fever will not be allowed to disembark.
 
6:30 a.m.: MS Zaandam arrives at Pier 4. All departing guests will be cleared for departure temperature-checked onboard prior to departure. Any with a fever will not be allowed to disembark.
 
6:30 a.m.: Buses positioned alongside Port Everglades Terminal at Piers 2 and 4 for transport to FLL or MIA.
 
9 a.m.: First bus convoy arrival to MIA southeast gate. MIA security to escort buses on to tarmac for designated flight; begin first aircraft loading (ground handler for all flights will be Swissport International, Ltd.). Luggage aircraft loading will be required. Each aircraft to depart once loading is complete based on slot time. TSA will be observing to ensure crew members board each aircraft, but no further crewmember or luggage screening will be conducted.

 

 

 

Remember now, this has to be approved by the Broward County Commission and the Broward County Unified Command and, I would imagine, signed off by Gov DeSantis also

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And an addition presented yesterday by Carnival Corp. Chief Maritime Officer, retired U.S. Navy Admiral William Burke:

 

plan is in place to send everyone home. He said buses will take 250 passengers to Canada, and a charter flight will take 120 Australians. Burke also said there will be charter flights to California, Germany and the United Kingdom.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Regarding US military bases, only the 300 US citizens are pertinent.  Canadians are still foreign nationals so yes, they are just as complicated as the crew and other foreign passengers.  I'm not injecting opinion on that comment; just giving the facts.

Canada has assisted in organizing multiple flights to get us home.  Are you suggesting they will not do so for these citizens?

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6 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Remember now, this has to be approved by the Broward County Commission and the Broward County Unified Command and, I would imagine, signed off by Gov DeSantis also

Copper 

Isn't it scheduled for the Commission and Unified Command to meet tomorrow morning to accept or reject whatever plan is put forth??   That would put off debarkation at pier 2 &4 until Friday at the earliest??  

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1 minute ago, Copper10-8 said:

And an addition presented yesterday by Carnival Corp. Chief Maritime Officer, retired U.S. Navy Admiral William Burke:

 

plan is in place to send everyone home. He said buses will take 250 passengers to Canada, and a charter flight will take 120 Australians. Burke also said there will be charter flights to California, Germany and the United Kingdom.

 

 


Good start!
 

This may seem like an silly question:  what is the definition of ‘everyone’?
 

Only those with no fevers I presume.  

 

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Just now, Max2003 said:

Copper 

Isn't it scheduled for the Commission and Unified Command to meet tomorrow morning to accept or reject whatever plan is put forth??   That would put off debarkation at pier 2 &4 until Friday at the earliest??  

 

 

The plan is subject to the approval of both bodies so yes, the timing can, and more than likely will, change

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3 minutes ago, capriccio said:


Good start!
 

This may seem like an silly question:  what is the definition of ‘everyone’?
 

Only those with no fevers I presume.  

 

 

Those who are not displaying symptoms......😉.

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21 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

9 a.m.: First bus convoy arrival to MIA southeast gate. MIA security to escort buses on to tarmac for designated flight; begin first aircraft loading (ground handler for all flights will be Swissport International, Ltd.). Luggage aircraft loading will be required. Each aircraft to depart once loading is complete based on slot time. TSA will be observing to ensure crew members board each aircraft, but no further crewmember or luggage screening will be conducted.

 

 

Makes sense to me - all except that last sentence.

Why would you need a crew member aboard each aircraft?  Will they get off prior to plane taking off?

?????

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Just now, PeaceAnd said:

Again, nothing for the crew members and specifically, the Rotterdam crew members that mislead into delivering only medical supplies and now, being stuck into that big mess.  They could all still be in Puerto Vallarta sipping a Corona beer!

 

You did read the caption "part of the plan," yes? Btw, Corona beer is overrated 🙂

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1 minute ago, sansterre said:

Makes sense to me - all except that last sentence.

Why would you need a crew member aboard each aircraft?  Will they get off prior to plane taking off?

?????

 

"Crew members" - Looks to me TSA will be tasked to make sure crew gets on their designated aircraft and does not decide to skip their flight and go elsewhere. That would, besides a potential health issue,  become a CBP/Immigration issue

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10 minutes ago, az_tchr said:

Canada has assisted in organizing multiple flights to get us home.  Are you suggesting they will not do so for these citizens?

 

You don't seem to understand the context of my post.  I was speaking to the complications of bringing a foreign flagged ship into a military base.  I said nothing about flights or how people would get home.  It was merely about the complications of getting the ship into a base that is full of foreign nationals. 

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5 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

You don't seem to understand the context of my post.  I was speaking to the complications of bringing a foreign flagged ship into a military base.  I said nothing about flights or how people would get home.  It was merely about the complications of getting the ship into a base that is full of foreign nationals. 

 

So is the issue with a foreign ship about security or jurisdiction? Something else?

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7 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

"Crew members" - Looks to me TSA will be tasked to make sure crew gets on their designated aircraft and does not decide to skip their flight and go elsewhere. That would, besides a potential health issue,  become a CBP/Immigration issue

Hmmmmmm, that Commission must be used to working with Farmworker issues.

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These are the requirements Broward County is asking, from web page

Broward county demands for Zaandam

What are the Unified Command's requirements that must be addressed in any plan submitted by a cruise line before a cruise ship is allowed to enter Port Everglades?
The Unified Command has developed a list of conditions that would need to be addressed in any Plan submitted by a cruise line. They include:  

Full compliance with all regulatory requirements of U.S. Coast Guard, U.S. Customs and Border Protection as well as the U.S. Centers Disease Control and Prevention.

All illnesses, conditions, medical concerns and or items of concern must be accurately disclosed and documented.

Any last-minute disclosures when the vessel is in transit to the berth or dockside will suspend all operations until the necessary fact finding is completed to the satisfaction of those in the Unified Command.

The cruise line, at its expense, will provide all Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) to all responders. 

Temperature readings are for all disembarking crew and passengers before U.S. Customs and Border Protection processing.

The cruise line, at its expense shall secure and arrange for private ambulatory transport. 

The cruise line shall make all arrangements for care with the medical facilities.  

To minimize exposure to shore staff, responders and the facility, as well as expedite transport by shuttle or bus or charter aircraft, passengers will leave the vessel with one personal item that holds only essential items.  

The cruise line, at its expense, will sanitize all other luggage in a location provided by the receiving facility and arrange for reunification of the luggage as soon as possible.  

The cruise line, at its expense, shall arrange for the disposal of all medical and agricultural waste in accordance with federal regulations. 

To prevent cross contamination from spreading between the passengers, crew and into the local community, the cruise line will be required to sanitize the receiving facility, which may also include, but is not limited to, any equipment used by first responders, the facility, exposed equipment used by contractors and any hired equipment used for transportation of passengers.

No less than 24 hours in advance of the start of debarkation, the cruise line will present a security plan for review and approval  to the Unified Command that demonstrates how passengers will debark orderly, safely and in compliance with current health advisories (i.e. social distancing). 

Failure to maintain good order may result in an immediate suspension of the debarkation until the situation is under control.

All debarking passengers and crew must have a final, verifiable, travel itinerary prior to being allowed to debark the vessel.  
 

Seems reasonable to me!

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20 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

Something to chew on 😬

 

Part of the Carnival Corp plan for tomorrow:

 

6 a.m.: MS Rotterdam arrives at Pier 2 in Port Everglades. All departing guests will be cleared for departure temperature-checked onboard prior to departure. Any with a fever will not be allowed to disembark.
 
6:30 a.m.: MS Zaandam arrives at Pier 4. All departing guests will be cleared for departure temperature-checked onboard prior to departure. Any with a fever will not be allowed to disembark.
 
6:30 a.m.: Buses positioned alongside Port Everglades Terminal at Piers 2 and 4 for transport to FLL or MIA.
 
9 a.m.: First bus convoy arrival to MIA southeast gate. MIA security to escort buses on to tarmac for designated flight; begin first aircraft loading (ground handler for all flights will be Swissport International, Ltd.). Luggage aircraft loading will be required. Each aircraft to depart once loading is complete based on slot time. TSA will be observing to ensure crew members board each aircraft, but no further crewmember or luggage screening will be conducted.

 

 

Hate to say it but that is pretty lame and is basically mostly lets get them off of the ships.

 

It is time Carnival take charge of all of its resources.  Up to know it has been playing Corporate PR and focusing on getting the problem off of its hand as quickly as possible.  It is past time for it to use its resources to help solve the problems not just pass them on. Stop hiding behind flu like symptoms and actually get a scope on the problem.

 

It has, when one thinks about more resources than many small cities and the equivalent medical resources of a small hospital.  It has numerous ships near and around Florida.

 

1. Gather the ships so that they can support each other.  The Bahamas is ideal for that.

2. Get testing supplies to test the entire crews and passengers.  There are now fast tests available.  There are now antibody tests available.  Get them and test everyone.  Crew, passengers, everyone.

3. There are enough ships that some can be chosen, Pick the ones that do not have a history of illness, have them given a thorough cleaning, including the sprays that they use.

4. Move the healthy non-essential crew and passengers to that location, cleared by antibody tests. The healthy crew (cooks, servers, etc) can also function as backup resources to fill in if the staff on the hospital ships get ill. 

5. Pick one or more ships to function as hospital ships. Organize the medical staff to support those ships.  Consolidate those infected on those ships.  They have medical staff, they have ventilators, what they don't have buy.  Bring in off contract medical staff if necessary. Use good practices to separate the support staff to keep them healthy. 

6. The Bahamas may not have good medical facilities, but they do have something even more important.  They have a very good international airport.

7. Once the situation is known and somewhat stabilized then contact the countries of those passengers and arrange for repatriation through the Bahamas airport.  Pay for charter flights if needed.

8. With the number of infected known and those not infected cleared by more than a temperature check (which was fine for the Grand because they were going to quarantine) then it should be pretty easy to get the healthy home. 

9. What Carnival can not obtain using their own resources, appeal to the countries of the passengers and the flag countries to ask for support.

 

For once stop acting like a company playing PR games and actually move to help solve the problem.

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On the Coral Princess thread a current passenger just posted saying their captain announced that the Zaandam had permission to disembark!  The Coral is due in on April 4th and just reported passengers with ‘flu like’ symptoms yesterday and all passengers are now isolated in their cabins.

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16 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

Something to chew on 😬

 

Part of the Carnival Corp plan for tomorrow:

 

6 a.m.: MS Rotterdam arrives at Pier 2 in Port Everglades. All departing guests will be cleared for departure temperature-checked onboard prior to departure. Any with a fever will not be allowed to disembark.
 
6:30 a.m.: MS Zaandam arrives at Pier 4. All departing guests will be cleared for departure temperature-checked onboard prior to departure. Any with a fever will not be allowed to disembark.
 

 

I'll be happy when they finally get HOME! But I still have one reservation with this scenario, and that's if any "positive" people mistakenly pop a Tylenol, etc. for symptoms before taking their temperature. Say a minor headache or such, not realizing that it's a fever reducer too.

 

I really wish they could perform actual tests somehow before releasing people. Is there any chance at all that will happen?

 

I guess I'm just really concerned after the Ruby Princess fiasco, where they disembarked in Sydney March 8 and 19 without testing and now 440 passengers are positive (10% of Australia's total cases are from Ruby Princess).

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/mar/31/more-than-400-coronavirus-cases-australia-total-ruby-princess-cruise-ship

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For Copper 10-8 -- two questions:

 

1.  Do you know why the two ships stopped for a bit this morning just west of Cuba, with an apparent tender between the two? 

 

2.  Why do they both now have their pedals to the metal -- moving at warp speed like they're being chased by pirates?  Is there only a brief window of opportunity for their arrival in Fort Lauderdale?

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3 minutes ago, capriccio said:

On the Coral Princess thread a current passenger just posted saying their captain announced that the Zaandam had permission to disembark!  The Coral is due in on April 4th and just reported passengers with ‘flu like’ symptoms yesterday and all passengers are now isolated in their cabins.


interesting since the Broward Commission is not meeting until Thursday!

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18 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

You did read the caption "part of the plan," yes? Btw, Corona beer is overrated 🙂

Good one!  I was going to write "margarita" but most crew members are male so I thought they would be more Corona drinkers...

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1 minute ago, capriccio said:

The Coral is due in on April 4th and just reported passengers with ‘flu like’ symptoms yesterday and all passengers are now isolated in their cabins.

 

 

 

Since the rest of the world is not even allowing ships we have to help them as well.

 

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  • CCHelp changed the title to Zaandam and Rotterdam Situation (merged topics starting March 22, 2020)
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