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commodoredave

Will COVID-19 sink the cruise industry?

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3 hours ago, commodoredave said:

The punch line was meant to be critical of the doctor in question. On reflection, I wouldn't trust him to make me a Latte! So appologies to all baristas!

DUH !

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3 hours ago, commodoredave said:

The punch line was meant to be critical of the doctor in question. On reflection, I wouldn't trust him to make me a Latte! So appologies to all baristas!

I am not a barista, but felt compelled to take their side in the slur .

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2 hours ago, rattanchair said:

I am not a barista, but felt compelled to take their side in the slur .

Will you spare me a keel-hauling!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, commodoredave said:

Will you spare me a keel-hauling!

Of course, but from my upbringing it would have been hanged, drawn and quartered !

P.S. We do not like to leave anything to chance.

Edited by rattanchair
P.S.

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I'm pretty sure, on my own experience and reading some of the posts here and elsewhere, that the cruise lines may do a pretty good job of sinking themselves unless they improve their information flow and customer service.

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On 4/15/2020 at 4:27 PM, commodoredave said:

Any thoughts out there??

Excellent ! C.D. You are a breath of fresh air in a very 'stale' environment. Thank you.

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On 4/19/2020 at 12:25 PM, T Tail said:

Frankly I don't see the cruise lines recovering and restarting except in bankruptcy. (and you wonder why they have been so stingy with refunding cash?)

Should it come to bankruptcy, so be it. There is too much money to be made in using indentured third world service providers, and ample first world cruises to take advantage of them. The cruise lines have $20,000 of my money now and I am not afraid of them just more afraid of covid. I will 'kick the can' down the road. I love the suite product and tip cash profusely to assuage my guilt of the good service provide me by cruise line indentured servants. Should I lose my $20,000, I bought adequate insurance. I will be back and book again.

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On 4/21/2020 at 4:16 PM, commodoredave said:

I don't get it, but that is what several media are reporting including in this story in the Los Angeles Times. Can anyone explain this behaviour?!

It is easy to explain. I am a suite cruiser, that does not care about ports. The more ports the better, to get the hoi-polloi off the ship so I can enjoy the ambience of a most empty ship. I tip cash profusely so that I get service.  DW says it is because I love to here the words "Whatever you want Mr. Rat". Sometimes it is even "Sir Rat" ( though I would prefer "Lord Rat"). I am on vacation and this cruise in suite class is my "Westworld" without the bad parts.

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On 4/19/2020 at 12:25 PM, T Tail said:

so I'll be cutting back my cruising...a lot.

Everything you stated is relevant. At this point in my life I have not got the luxury of time on my hands. I have money to burn as do most of us retirees that love to cruise. We want suites, good food, service with a smile. We do not want to contract any virus that will stop us from future (something to look forward to in life) cruises. You all have the luxury of more time. I am hopeful that this to shall pass, quickly. I do not wish this pandemic to be someone else's Renaissance (heirs).

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On 5/4/2020 at 8:12 AM, commodoredave said:

The cruise industry is racing to come up with more rigorous health measures that will make cruise ships less likely to become floating petri dishes in future, and satisfy the CDC so they will lift their "no sail" order. Here are my thoughts in my latest blog called "Cruising will survive, but it may get weird." 

https://gentlemansportion.com/2020/05/04/cruising-will-survive-but-it-may-get-weird/

I would love to see waiters in face masks bring me my meal. I would hope that the kitchen staff as well were all in face masks. Gloves are useless if hand washings are not every change of task. I have hoped for these measures for years. I stopped eating with tablemates after having them cough in my face and plate numerous cruises. How many times do you have to get sick on a cruise or 5 days after, before you wise up ? Unfortunately, once a vaccine is developed it will be back to norovirus as usual and the inconsiderate cougher in the elevator without putting a hand over their mouth. It is not the cruise lines I hate as much as the inconsiderate passengers I have to contend with.

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On 5/5/2020 at 12:22 PM, ysolde said:

but never again will I get on a cruise ship.  They are filthy."

And my DW is 67 and a germaphobe to boot. All my life it is "wash your hands". She sprays alcohol all over the place. Bottoms of our shoes, cleans the cabin with nitrile gloves while I UV everything she has disinfected, every day after the steward has left. Have to wash my hands before 'I take a tissue to blow my nose. Still I get norovirus. But will she consider not cruising? Not a chance. She loves the suite life,'"La Dulce Vida".

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On 5/19/2020 at 2:57 PM, commodoredave said:

If the COVID-19 virus is still around and there is no vaccine, would you still be in favor of maintaining buffets on cruise ships?

Dear C, I stopped eating any buffet, suite class or check in at terminal,  at the pool, years ago. I trust the crew more than my fellow passengers etiquette.

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My wife and I are both well into our seventies, and have thoroughly enjoyed some twenty cruises  over the years.

 

We have both had a few respiratory illnesses on board, on occasions requiring visits to the medical centre. On our penultimate cruise, my wife contracted norovirus, and we discovered that the vessel had undergone an hygiene and sanitation program in Ft. Lauderdale prior to returning to Southampton where we boarded for our cruise.

 

Following the tragic events on the Diamond Princess earlier in the year, I did some research on the internet, with specific interest on air conditioning systems in cruise ships.  Research undertaken at Purdue University in Indiana makes interesting reading.

 

Cruise companies are now saying how they are going to improve their hygiene and sanitation programs in the future. More hand sanitizers in public areas, overseen by staff in food areas, more frequent cleaning of handrails, stairways etc..etc. However I have not seen any comment as to whether air conditioning systems in cruise ships are to be upgraded.

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42 minutes ago, riviera1 said:

Cruise companies are now saying how they are going to improve their hygiene and sanitation programs in the future. More hand sanitizers in public areas, overseen by staff in food areas, more frequent cleaning of handrails, stairways etc..etc. However I have not seen any comment as to whether air conditioning systems in cruise ships are to be upgraded.

Excellent points. You would think that these cruise ships could find the time to deep clean their ships at the present moment. Reports today of crew still getting covid on board. I guess they feel the virus will not last on surfaces once the crew dies out, I mean leave the ships.

  Investigators did find Sars RNA in the carpet outside the Metropole hotel room of a Sars patient 3 months later. So much for deep cleaning. And no one still knows if this RNA could still be potent. Perhaps you are alluding to covid acting and thriving in air conditioning systems like 'legionaire's disease' ?

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22 hours ago, rattanchair said:

It is easy to explain. I am a suite cruiser, that does not care about ports. The more ports the better, to get the hoi-polloi off the ship so I can enjoy the ambience of a most empty ship. I tip cash profusely so that I get service.  DW says it is because I love to here the words "Whatever you want Mr. Rat". Sometimes it is even "Sir Rat" ( though I would prefer "Lord Rat"). I am on vacation and this cruise in suite class is my "Westworld" without the bad parts.

With the exception of the few expedition cruises we've taken, we do the same and just stay on the ship when it's doing the regular routes. We did a Silversea cruise to the Caribbean in December, and we got off the ship just once. It was wonderful when we had the ship and the facilities mostly to ourselves.

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21 hours ago, rattanchair said:

And my DW is 67 and a germaphobe to boot. All my life it is "wash your hands". She sprays alcohol all over the place. Bottoms of our shoes, cleans the cabin with nitrile gloves while I UV everything she has disinfected, every day after the steward has left. Have to wash my hands before 'I take a tissue to blow my nose. Still I get norovirus. But will she consider not cruising? Not a chance. She loves the suite life,'"La Dulce Vida".

Spraying alcohol all over the place?! What a waste. I was taught at a young age never to waste the stuff as millions of children around the world go to bed sober every night!

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3 hours ago, riviera1 said:

My wife and I are both well into our seventies, and have thoroughly enjoyed some twenty cruises  over the years.

 

We have both had a few respiratory illnesses on board, on occasions requiring visits to the medical centre. On our penultimate cruise, my wife contracted norovirus, and we discovered that the vessel had undergone an hygiene and sanitation program in Ft. Lauderdale prior to returning to Southampton where we boarded for our cruise.

 

Following the tragic events on the Diamond Princess earlier in the year, I did some research on the internet, with specific interest on air conditioning systems in cruise ships.  Research undertaken at Purdue University in Indiana makes interesting reading.

 

Cruise companies are now saying how they are going to improve their hygiene and sanitation programs in the future. More hand sanitizers in public areas, overseen by staff in food areas, more frequent cleaning of handrails, stairways etc..etc. However I have not seen any comment as to whether air conditioning systems in cruise ships are to be upgraded.

I recently read that some airlines and at least one cruise line (Genting) are putting in air filters that extract all airborne bacteria, etc. It's certainly an issue we all need to keep an eye on. The cruise lines that make this a priority will get my business.

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1 hour ago, commodoredave said:

I recently read that some airlines and at least one cruise line (Genting) are putting in air filters that extract all airborne bacteria, etc. It's certainly an issue we all need to keep an eye on. The cruise lines that make this a priority will get my business.

I agree. however the problem is Genting very rarely sails and returns to the same US port.

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Posted (edited)

I am hoping this was a wake-up for the cruise industry from a health and safety  standpoint.

My Wife and I took a 33 day cruise  honeymoon on Holland America starting in Honolulu finishing in Auckland, New Zealand.

even BEFORE the coronavirus pandemic after we finished this cruise we were completely  disgusted with Holland America's lack of response and overall absence of medical pre-screening procedures.  I asked someone in the infirmary if HAL pre-screens anyone for medical issues before letting them on the boat , they laughed at me and said "if we did there would be nobody on the boat". Of course that was an exaggeration, but not far from the truth. on my cruise. furthermore when I commented on the poor physical condition of a good number of my fellow passenger  I was told again by a member of the infirmary staff that those who aren't medically fit to fly often opt to cruise to get across the Pacific.    predictably after we jettisoned the majority of my sickly fellow passengers upon docking in Sydney., someone entered the ship with Norovirus and infected 200 of my fellow passengers. Norovirus for me is a damning indictment of what a universally poor job the cruise industry does in this area and how ill prepared they were in combating the coronavirus.

 

When I heard people getting infected off the coast of Japan and elsewhere with the coronavirus, my heart went out to the passenger and the crew as I knew the results would not be good.  And even in the wake of this me hearing that Royal Caribbean is doing the sensible thing and stopping the buffets I saw a glimmer of hope  . . . . but I also saw the backlash of those clearly in denial of the health and safety risks in reinstating that . Its also painfully clear there are those who want to go back to business as usual with no appreciation of what we are going through.  For that reason I went from someone who loved regularly cruising with my wife , an ex Princess employee, to someone who will probably never cruise again unless the cruise industry changes so those who take their responsibility seriously are protected from who those who still clearly do not.

Edited by cruiser_myt
update

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The US does not want a repeat of the Diamond Princess, etc where the onus has fallen on the US to pay and treat for future problems exacerbated by lax cruise ship protocols. The CDC 'suggestion' in the No-Sail-Order that the cruise lines create a future ship to act as a quarantine vessel, a second vessel as a hospital vessel, and a third ship to act as a home for doctors and nurses treating these cruise patients and additional transfer and support vessels; will turn from a 'suggestion' to a demand for the lifting of the no=sail-order to be lifted from US ports. Thus keeping any future cruise ship problems out at sea and not transmitted to US soil.

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3 hours ago, cruiser_myt said:

cruise industry changes so those who take their responsibility seriously are protected from who those who still clearly do not.

Exactly what the no-sail-order is trying to accomplish. I think the cruise industry is pushing the can down the road in the hopes that the month of November will change the 'tide' for them.

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22 hours ago, rattanchair said:

Exactly what the no-sail-order is trying to accomplish. I think the cruise industry is pushing the can down the road in the hopes that the month of November will change the 'tide' for them.

Seabourn has already announced all sailings are cancelled until at least October. That is a forward thinking and consumer-friendly policy. Some other cruise lines have put greed before safety and announced earlier start-ups this summer, which will likely not happen. One small U.K.- based cruise line is only cancelling cruises one month in advance, which is putting their passengers through hell. 

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Posted (edited)

The only  proposed sailings starting  this summer are outside the US. Perhaps there is a possibility that all US home based cruise ships will have to be re-flagged as US, like the one Princess has for the Hawaii market. Either that or cruise from home based Caribbean ports instead of US ports. If re-flagged, the cruise lines will have more stringent laws to comply with. Maybe it would be cheaper in the long run to just acquiesce to CDC 'suggestion' in the no-sail-order of cruise industry providing itself with 3 vessels, one for quarantine, a second as a hospital, a third for hospital staff and transfer vessels between ships. They are probably 'crunching' the numbers still. Push will come to shove if and when the no-sail-order is extended. A game of 'chicken' since these are foreign flagged vessels. The US does not want a repeat of the cost and spread of contagion caused by the Diamond Princess. It wants that any plague  will be contained out at sea and not brought back to the US, regardless of whose citizens are on board.

P.S. US citizens "caveat emptor".

Edited by rattanchair
P.S.

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I am not sure what  sailings will go ahead.  Covid-19 is  showing several trends similar to the Spanish Flu of 1918.  If the trend continues the second wave should hit in Oct/Nov this year and in the absence of a vaccine could be up to 5 times more severe than what we have seen to date.  US Spanish Flu deaths were greater than US losses in WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam combined.  The economic imperative to reopen the economy as early as possible is creating the same scenario as 1918 when the US and Europe failed to get on top of the virus before the traditional winter flu season hit.  The result was catastrophic then and could be again.  National Chief Medical advisors will be watching these trends with interest and there is plenty of talk about the coming second wave.  With this in mind I do not think we will see countries relenting on cruise industry restriction any time soon.  No country wants these floating petri dishes visiting their shores before the threat of a second wave has passed.

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