NO BAILOUT FOR CRUISE LINES!

[Jim9310]

10 minutes ago, adonisr said:

Businesses do not pay taxes - period.  Any tax they pay is passed on to their customers via the price of their product.

When corporate taxes were substantially cut in 2018, consumer prices didn't go down.

Many large corporations had huge windfalls and used the money to buy back their stock.

 

[Goodtime Cruizin]

5 hours ago, Bookster99 said:

I am sorry, and hope you are on your feet again soon. 

 

This was a proper way to respond to a post of this nature.

Someone should take notice. 

 

Having said this, I too wish him the best. It's my hope that he can pick up the peices that mean the most and possible rebuild in a different direction. God speed. 

[mugtech]

25 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Well for not getting a bailout, their stock prices are sure up...I haven't read the bailout package, but somehow, I don't think the cruise industry is going to be left out.  Too many American jobs at stake from porters, dock workers, airlines flying cruise ship passengers from point A to B and back, hotels, shuttles, restaurants, and the list goes on...

The government will help them get low interest loans, hopefully with collateral like a couple of ships which could become part of the US Navy in a worst case scenario.

[Wine-O]

41 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

Well for not getting a bailout, their stock prices are sure up...I haven't read the bailout package, but somehow, I don't think the cruise industry is going to be left out.  Too many American jobs at stake from porters, dock workers, airlines flying cruise ship passengers from point A to B and back, hotels, shuttles, restaurants, and the list goes on...

 

Those American jobs are going to be helped by the current legislation in Congress.  🍷

[RoyalC]

Always amazed why all the bailout talk is from the United States Government. Doesn't Europe, Asia, Australia, Canada, etc. benefit tremendously from the cruise industry? Why does America always have to bail everyone out? We have over 23 Trillion in debt. People complain constantly about the U.S of A, yet we seem to be the caretakers in these situations. smh 

[time4u2go]

15 minutes ago, RoyalC said:

Always amazed why all the bailout talk is from the United States Government. Doesn't Europe, Asia, Australia, Canada, etc. benefit tremendously from the cruise industry? Why does America always have to bail everyone out? We have over 23 Trillion in debt. People complain constantly about the U.S of A, yet we seem to be the caretakers in these situations. smh 

The US is not bailing everyone out.  Other countries are talking about bailing out companies based in their countries, just as the US is.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

5 hours ago, MightyMike said:

 

That's a classic example of false equivalency. That type of argument just obscures the truth.

 

Individuals take fair deductions offered to them at tax time. Corporations pay lobbyists massive amounts of money to create loopholes. Nearly 100 Fortune 500 companies effectively paid no federal taxes in 2018. 

 

There is a difference between taking the meager deductions offered to you as an individual versus changing the tax code so that your multi-billion dollar corporation pays no federal taxes.

The cruise lines (ANY company) takes advantage of the laws to pay the least amount they can... just like EVERY American.

 

5 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

 

I take the standard deduction because of the amount of money I make, it's better than itemizing. Where would you suggest I look to "try" to pay less?

So you don't pay more taxes than what you owe, right?  That's my point... companies aren't paying more than they owe either.  If someone came up to you and said they could cut your tax burden in half, totally legally, 100%, would you say "no, I'm good what I'm paying now"?  Of course not.  But that's what people want businesses to do.  Explain that logic. 

[mugtech]

28 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

The cruise lines (ANY company) takes advantage of the laws to pay the least amount they can... just like EVERY American.

 

So you don't pay more taxes than what you owe, right?  That's my point... companies aren't paying more than they owe either.  If someone came up to you and said they could cut your tax burden in half, totally legally, 100%, would you say "no, I'm good what I'm paying now"?  Of course not.  But that's what people want businesses to do.  Explain that logic. 

They want the laws changed so the businesses must pay taxes as opposed to having a tax department which spends all its time finding ways to not pay taxes. A realistic alt min tax would help.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

18 hours ago, mugtech said:

They want the laws changed so the businesses must pay taxes as opposed to having a tax department which spends all its time finding ways to not pay taxes. A realistic alt min tax would help.

So fault the lawmakers, not the companies.  Just my opinion of course. 

[orville99]

Language of the bill just passed by the senate left the cruise lines on the “cutting room floor”. According to CNBC they would not qualify for any of the loans encompassed in the bill.

[Merion_Mom]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/cruise-lines-early-source-of-coronavirus-infections-out-of-bailout-package/ar-BB11LAuE?ocid=spartanntp

[BND]

On 3/24/2020 at 5:00 AM, mugtech said:

Don't forget capital gains tax rates which allow the richest among us to pay at rates lower than the average worker.

Except capital gains taxes are paid on investments, not salaries/income.  And, it's not just the richest that can have capital gains, but okay.

Edited March 27, 2020 by BND

[rcclmiami]

On 3/24/2020 at 12:08 AM, Doug910 said:

Well said. Most don't realize that a "bailout" is NOT a handout, but a low interest loan. So, a couple of points... A)The US government shut down the cruise lines. Wasn't a situation where it was a case of bad management or poor controls of Operational Expenditures took place. And B) Though the vast majority of shipboard employees are non-Americans, the cruise lines do help the US economy in many ways. Shore side personnel, port agents, luggage porters, security and port maintenance are a small sampling of US workers aligned with the cruise industry. Add in all the wholesalers of the materials that the cruise ships use on a weekly basis (meats, produce, alcohol, fuel, etc.) it adds tens of billions of dollars to the US economy. Bottom line is that cruise lines deserve low cost government loans to keep the economy "floating".

We have been cruising for 30 years.but why is only 1 ship registered in the US? Taxes. If the cruise lines want taxpayer money, they should pay their share. Oh, that would mean having to pay the crew what they deserve. Will never happen.

[BND]

On 3/25/2020 at 6:41 PM, adonisr said:

Businesses do not pay taxes - period.  Any tax they pay is passed on to their customers via the price of their product.

True and I've stated that before.  I'm not sure why people are so short sighted to think that corporations don't pass their costs onto the consumers.  

[BND]

3 minutes ago, rcclmiami said:

We have been cruising for 30 years.but why is only 1 ship registered in the US? Taxes. If the cruise lines want taxpayer money, they should pay their share. Oh, that would mean having to pay the crew what they deserve. Will never happen.

I've also posted this before.  This explains why and it's not just to avoid taxes.  https://www.cruisejobfinder.com/fm/cruises/foreign-flagged-cruise-ships.php

 

We also don't really have a US merchant ship business anymore and for the same reasons. 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/bal-te.bz.sealift06aug06-story.html

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by BND

[LMaxwell]

27 minutes ago, BND said:

I've also posted this before.  This explains why and it's not just to avoid taxes.  https://www.cruisejobfinder.com/fm/cruises/foreign-flagged-cruise-ships.php

 

We also don't really have a US merchant ship business anymore and for the same reasons. 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/bal-te.bz.sealift06aug06-story.html

 

 

Nothing prevents the cruise lines from legally hiring US Citizens to be employed on their ships...

[mugtech]

30 minutes ago, BND said:

Except capital gains taxes are paid on investments, not salaries/income.  And, it's not just the richest that can have capital gains, but okay.

Except money managers get to turn their payments into capital gains, not salaries and wages.

[ano]

On 3/25/2020 at 5:00 PM, time4u2go said:

The US is not bailing everyone out.  Other countries are talking about bailing out companies based in their countries, just as the US is.

That is great news for the cruise companies. They are companies based in Panama, Bahamas, and Maltese.  Maybe those countries will bail them out?  

[time4u2go]

7 hours ago, ano said:

That is great news for the cruise companies. They are companies based in Panama, Bahamas, and Maltese.  Maybe those countries will bail them out?  

Not sure all of those countries have cruise lines based in them but perhaps those countries will bail them out if they do. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by time4u2go

[ECCruise]

6 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Not sure all of those countries have Cruise Lines based there but perhaps they will bail them out if they do. 

All have lines registered there.

Celebrity and Azamara in Malta (and Ecuador for the Galapagos)

Carnival in Panama

Disney and RCCL in Bahamas

[time4u2go]

7 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

All have lines registered there.

Celebrity and Azamara in Malta (and Ecuador for the Galapagos)

Carnival in Panama

Disney and RCCL in Bahamas

Right, but they're not based there, which is what the person I responded to was talking about.  Big difference.

Edited March 27, 2020 by time4u2go

[RocketMan275]

10 hours ago, rcclmiami said:

We have been cruising for 30 years.but why is only 1 ship registered in the US? Taxes. If the cruise lines want taxpayer money, they should pay their share. Oh, that would mean having to pay the crew what they deserve. Will never happen.

It also has to do with Union wages.  If registered in US, then must pay union scale. 

There used to be three ships but complaints over service caused a reduction.  (Or so it was reported.)

[Aintnofun007]

11 hours ago, rcclmiami said:

We have been cruising for 30 years.but why is only 1 ship registered in the US? Taxes. If the cruise lines want taxpayer money, they should pay their share. Oh, that would mean having to pay the crew what they deserve. Will never happen.

 

 

would you be happy paying significantly more for your cruise due to this? i think we are all happy with cheap cruise fares. 

[ECCruise]

26 minutes ago, Aintnofun007 said:

 

 

would you be happy paying significantly more for your cruise due to this? i think we are all happy with cheap cruise fares. 

I don't think cruise fares are cheap, not by any stretch of the imagination.  Yes, there are some deals on vanilla Caribbean cruises (of which many, including us, have no interest) but look at anything of interest and prices are sky high.

[gatour]

12 hours ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Nothing prevents the cruise lines from legally hiring US Citizens to be employed on their ships...

You are correct.  They do hire US citizens usually entertainers cruise director staff.  But for many of the jobs available, the pay does not entice US citizens to apply for them.