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On 3/25/2021 at 3:42 PM, Senior Gators said:

Thank you all for sharing your wisdom and views.

I would like to echo your thanks for the excellent and interesting contributions that have been added to this thread @Senior Gators. As I had hoped when making the OP they truly reflect the quality and depth of conversations that I have enjoyed in the real-world Explorers’ Lounge.

 

It was kind of you to give me a mention too, though I just provided the virtual environment that others have used to such good effect.

 

Your post reminded me that it is now a little over a year since that OP (and what a year!) but thankfully we and Viking are still active. The reality of a stroll past Mamsen’s and across to the sweeping curve of those forward-facing windows might not be too far away.

 

In the meantime, together with our shipmate from the TA @ Azulann and the rest of the crowd in here, let's raise a glass of virtual bubbles to the Viking ships and all who will sail in them.

 

🍾 Skål 🥂     

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On 3/17/2021 at 1:14 AM, CharTrav said:

Hmmmm. My confidence for our July Midnight Sun cruise on the Venus is steadily shrinking. 😔

I feel your pain... my July Norway to Iceland cruise is also fading... Iceland is open to the vaccinated but Norway just tightened restrictions again. 

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2 hours ago, Liz Masterson said:

I feel your pain... my July Norway to Iceland cruise is also fading... Iceland is open to the vaccinated but Norway just tightened restrictions again. 

Thanks. We'll have no problem with our Iceland post extension - getting our 2nd Pfizer this Monday. But... situation in Norway and UK remains unknown. No way to predict. Crystal ball have I not. Sigh. 🥲

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Just saw on Instagram the picture below which purports to be of Orion. It may be the angle of the photo (but I don’t think so) but it’s hull shape sure looks different than her sisters.  No bulbous bow (unless it is added on later?), the bow seems more vertical and less pointy.  
 

Did I miss an announcement from Viking that they were changing the design?

D840AECC-E24A-4165-84DF-DC0116E89A90.jpeg

CD931EBF-0D30-46EC-920B-972FDB116422.jpeg

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17 minutes ago, Clay Clayton said:

Just saw on Instagram the picture below which purports to be of Orion. It may be the angle of the photo (but I don’t think so) but it’s hull shape sure looks different than her sisters.  No bulbous bow (unless it is added on later?), the bow seems more vertical and less pointy.  
 

Did I miss an announcement from Viking that they were changing the design?

D840AECC-E24A-4165-84DF-DC0116E89A90.jpeg

CD931EBF-0D30-46EC-920B-972FDB116422.jpeg

The Octantis and Polaris are Expedition ships that will cruise the Great Lakes, Arctic and Antarctic.  I'm sure Andy and Jim can gives us insight on the hull shape.

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13 minutes ago, Lilyskittymom said:

The Octantis and Polaris are Expedition ships that will cruise the Great Lakes, Arctic and Antarctic.  I'm sure Andy and Jim can gives us insight on the hull shape.

Duh! I’m so stupid. I knew they were different and had the vertical bow.  
 

Nevermind

FA98188E-729F-4AA3-A7ED-35C650E00786.png

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1 hour ago, Lilyskittymom said:

The Octantis and Polaris are Expedition ships that will cruise the Great Lakes, Arctic and Antarctic.  I'm sure Andy and Jim can gives us insight on the hull shape.

Haven't seen enough of the hull shape to fully comment but to the bows.  As Andy has mentioned, the Expedition Ships are built  to ice class standards.  Stronger framing, thicker alloyed shell plating, and no pronounced bulb, all for pushing through broken or thin ice.  The VO ships have a pronounced bulb to assist with water flow around the rather bluff bows.  The extreme bow overhang of VO ships is a styling effort favored by Mr. Hagen.  Just look up pictures of his Royal Viking Line ships and you will see the same.  Other than some possible reserve buoyancy they serve no function.  Otherwise all ships would have them.  I am attaching a photo of all the bow a great ship needs to make good speed in all sorts of bad conditions.....

 

 

article-2252580-00EBC938000004B0-934_634x402.jpg

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Haven't seen QE2 in drydock, except the builders way and then only the superstructure. However the hull would be similar to Oriana and Canberra, with fine lines. The bow tapered to about 1/3 of the length, so the parallel body of the ship was fairly short.

 

Every ship with a straight bow (think Titanic) creates a wave at the stem, which uses energy created by the props. The bulbous bow sticks out in front of the ship and creates a wave with a phase opposite to the bow wave, which cancels the bow wave. This reduces the water plane area, increases speed and increases fuel economy.

 

I have never sailed in ice, or on an ice stregthed ship, but as Jim mentioned the fwd scantlings, or strength is inceased significantly. A bulbous bow would increase the resistance of the hull in ice and would be challenging to provide sufficient strength, even for PC 6.

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On 3/24/2021 at 10:19 AM, Heidi13 said:

Preliminary reports indicate initial cause was a strong gust of wind. Time will tell what other contributing factors were present.

Also too it was the pilot provided by the Suez Canal authority who screwed up. Not anybody from the ship's crew. 

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Good morning fellow travelers.....   Aaahh, this Irish Coffee surely hits the spot.  I see we can finally transit the Suez Canal again and the big news in the cruise world is Carnival's newest ship is ready for service.  It has a roller coaster.   Any takers??  Me, I think I will follow this with a Bloody Mary then a short nap on the Pool Deck...🍹😎

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7 hours ago, CharTrav said:

Also too it was the pilot provided by the Suez Canal authority who screwed up. Not anybody from the ship's crew. 

 

Unfortunately, while the Canal provides a pilot, probably 2 pilots, in Suez, the Master and the Bridge Team still have the responsibility for the safe conduct of the vessel. Probably the best explanation is how we wrote it in the log book while manoeuvring, "Courses & speeds various to Master's Orders and Pilot's advice".

 

When the Pilot(s) board the vessel, the Master & Pilot have a meeting at which time the Master introduces the Pilot to the Bridge and the ship's manoeuvring characteristics, including providing a copy of the manoeuvring card - speeds, turning radius, stopping distances, draught, squat, distance from bridge to bow, length, beam, etc. The Pilot should also explain his/her passage plan to the Master, which the Master can accept, reject, request changes, etc.

 

When underway, the Master and Bridge Team must follow the ship's progress, as if a pilot wasn't present and must question any pilot's orders or actions, if they are concerned for the safety of the ship. The Master also has the authority to relieve the pilot entirely and in this situation, request the 2nd pilot assume the "Con"

 

Based on the short film I attached below, this wasn't a single incident, which is again fairly common. The wind is apparantly from the South and problems started immediately on entering the canal. The ship never did gain a track down the centre of the channel, moving from 1 side to the other. It also increased speed from about 8 kts to 13 kts when not maintaining a safe course.

 

If they were experiencing mechanical problems with the steering, I can't see why they would increase speed and also with mechanical issues, I believe the incident would have happened earlier. Therefore, I expect this will be mostly human error:

  • Failure to anticipate the wind's effect on the track, on entering the canal. With wind on the stbd side, course should have been set a number of degree to stbd of base course and Course Made Good (CMG) monitored and adjusted accordingly. Although visibility was restricted, they have all the technology readily displayed at the conning station to know the track and set (movement to port/stbd) instantly. The dual axis doppler log provides a continuous readout of speed ahead/astern and port/stbd and the electronic chart/radar overlay shows the real time position. Classic case of loss of "Situational Awareness"
  • Failure to set a safe speed. When the vessel can't maintain a centre track and is going from 1 bank to the other, I question why speed was increased to 13 kts.
  • Helm orders and how they were carried out will only be known from the inquiry, but in the film I noted some rather high rates of turn for a 1,300' ship. In confined waters you require small amount of rudder, as getting the ship's head turning quickly in 1 direction requires lots of rudder in the opposite direction to check the swing. This often sets up a cycle of chasing the compass. Rudder movement isn't instantaneous, as if memory is correct, the time for hard over to hard can take up to about 30 seconds. Even on our ships, which were built for manoeuvring with multiple smaller rudders, it took 5 or 6 secs from hard over to midships
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Thanks Andy.  Very interesting.  It really does show a helmsman/Captain having difficulty from the start.  Speculation:  Too large, too deep a draft?  The track surely seems to indicate repeated bank suction and over correction.  I too think raising speed was too much.  But then the instinct is to apply power in order to have more rudder control.  But then, in shallows, it can often act the opposite.  Bad place to learn ship handling.....

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2 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

Thanks Andy.  Very interesting.  It really does show a helmsman/Captain having difficulty from the start.  Speculation:  Too large, too deep a draft?  The track surely seems to indicate repeated bank suction and over correction.  I too think raising speed was too much.  But then the instinct is to apply power in order to have more rudder control.  But then, in shallows, it can often act the opposite.  Bad place to learn ship handling.....

 

Most definitely, experienced this a number of times with the big double enders.

 

With a prop at each end, when docking we pushed water out both ends, using the aft one for steerage and the fwd one for braking and bow thruster. I could control the pitch on each prop separately, but since both shafts were connect together with clutches, they both ran at the same RPM, which was dictated by which end I applied most thrust.

 

Naturally when docking bow-in, the bow is in shallower water than the stern. At nornal tides it wasn't a problem, but at low tides it could be an issue, with only a few feet of water below us. If the ship isn't slowing down, human nature is to apply more power to the fwd shaft (brakes & bow thruster), however that was the worst option, as the additional revs were also applied to the stern. Even with minimal pitch, the higher RPM and deeper water would simply drive the ship faster into the berth.

 

Only way to stop was dumping pitch on the stern and using minimal power up fwd.

 

Unfortunately, props don't work well around shallow water.

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8 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Unfortunately, while the Canal provides a pilot, probably 2 pilots, in Suez, the Master and the Bridge Team still have the responsibility for the safe conduct of the vessel. Probably the best explanation is how we wrote it in the log book while manoeuvring, "Courses & speeds various to Master's Orders and Pilot's advice".

 

<<snip!>>

Many thanks for your thorough clear explanation! 👌🏼

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It’s not looking good for cruises that includes Norway, like the Star’s 3 June sailing. Below is from Norway government site. Interesting that I found absolutely nothing about fully vaccinated people on the entire site.

Tom

In order to limit import infection, foreigners' access to Norway has been tightened sharply. From 29 March, persons must spend the entry quarantine at quarantine hotels. Only those non-Norwegian citizens who are residents of Norway are permitted to enter the country. 
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3 minutes ago, Tom.in.nc said:

Jim, 

I just saw Sujith on Viking TV, back in uniform.  Hope to sail with him again.

Tom

Tom, that is great news!  Sujith is one of the best human beings I have ever met.  And a darn good Hotel Manager too.  It would be a great thing if we get to have Sujith back on our WC.  

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Yes, saw Sujith in the video, who did our 2019 WC with us the whole way, and Captain Lars who did the first half of our WC and I believe, saw Andy safely home last April.  They have moved to the Star it appears!

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I felt so sorry for the housekeeper on the riverboat-one housekeeper for four boats!  
 

i guesstimated 36,000 square feet to be cleaned per ship or 144,000 sf total.  So presuming she works 6 days a week for 10 hours a day that means she has to clean the size of an average American house (2,400 sf) an hour. 😥

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2 hours ago, SantaFe1 said:

Yes, saw Sujith in the video, who did our 2019 WC with us the whole way, and Captain Lars who did the first half of our WC and I believe, saw Andy safely home last April.  They have moved to the Star it appears!

 

Affirmative, we had Capt Lars from Auckland all the way to Gibraltar, as the Captains were unable to get relief.

 

Hoping they move to the Neptune when it becomes operational.

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