Changes in Onboard Behavior & Procedures after Cruises restart sailing again...

[DarrenM]

1 hour ago, clo said:

I'm sincerely clueless what you're referring to. Until/unless the medical/scientific community figure out what they can and cannot do, IMO, all we can do is march in place, say lots of 'what-if's.' So what is there to "get over"?

I am just fed up listening and reading comments suggesting things will never go back to the way they were.

 

Well I am determined they will and I know many many others that are determined as well.

 

Not now obviously but in time. Hopefully not that long a time.

 

Just sick of people being overtly negative about the future, as if life isn't currently depressing enough.

 

Life is going to get back to normal and we will cruise again and we will go to pubs and restaurants and we will all shake hands again.

 

And I hope to cruise again as soon as possible. In just the same way as I did last year.

 

 

[DarrenM]

And it's not normally me who is the positive one.

[Flatbush Flyer]

6 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

I am just fed up listening and reading comments suggesting things will never go back to the way they were.

 

Well I am determined they will and I know many many others that are determined as well.

 

Not now obviously but in time. Hopefully not that long a time.

 

Just sick of people being overtly negative about the future, as if life isn't currently depressing enough.

 

Life is going to get back to normal and we will cruise again and we will go to pubs and restaurants and we will all shake hands again.

 

And I hope to cruise again as soon as possible. In just the same way as I did last year.

 

 

I share your positive outlook. 

But, handshaking? I stopped doing that years ago. 👍 works just fine.

[clo]

51 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

In just the same way as I did last year.

Where did you cruise last year?

 

#2 - Change is constant. Everything changes, slowly and quickly. Diseases come along and can affect one's life and lifestyle forever. I'd be shocked if cruising didn't change forever. This disease is a pretty big deal and really smart and competent people are working on it constantly. Does this site have a feature where you can block particular threads? If so, perhaps you should block them. Or at the least not click on them.

 

BTW, hand shaking is one of the things that Dr. Fauci hopes we never return to. And hand washing is the things he wants us to continue to do 🙂 

[clo]

1 hour ago, slidergirl said:

Cruising of any kind is a unique beast.

I was just having that thought. I can't think of anything else like it as far as thousands of people in small spaces and no ability to say "stop, I want off." And my imagination isn't working when it comes to thinking of something short of a vaccine that will give all the parties involved what they need/want. And it angers me when anyone in a position of power acts like anything is going to change HUGELY any time soon. And as much as a pharmaceutical company or a government agency would like to change things up, four or five years to get a vaccine approved is actually pretty quick. Sigh. 

[slidergirl]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

I was just having that thought. I can't think of anything else like it as far as thousands of people in small spaces and no ability to say "stop, I want off." And my imagination isn't working when it comes to thinking of something short of a vaccine that will give all the parties involved what they need/want. And it angers me when anyone in a position of power acts like anything is going to change HUGELY any time soon. And as much as a pharmaceutical company or a government agency would like to change things up, four or five years to get a vaccine approved is actually pretty quick. Sigh. 

You're going to have people who won't get the vaccine anyway, just like we have people now who don't get the annual flu vaccine.  And self-reporting wouldn't help there, either: "yes, I did get my vaccine."  People lie.  If/When a vaccine is created, tested, and verified, it would have to administered and verified like a Yellow Fever inoculation is - the official card that shows when you had it, signed by your medical provider.  But, like with flu vaccinations, some people can't get them because they are allergic to one of the components - I remember that with the "live' vaccines.  Would you give them an exemption or say "sorry, you can't cruise."  It's an issue far beyond my pay grade.  

[clo]

4 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

But, like with flu vaccinations, some people can't get them because they are allergic to one of the components - I remember that with the "live' vaccines.  Would you give them an exemption or say "sorry, you can't cruise."  It's an issue far beyond my pay grade.

Hmm, now that one stopped me tool.  But I have no problem with the yellow-card-esque routine. And has anyone brought up the liability to the cruise line if they let people cruise who don't have whatever it is they could have. I think cruising, if it continues at all, will change enormously. And maybe the owners will say 'no thanks' and write it off as scrap metal.

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Cruising of any kind is a unique beast.  Hundreds to thousands of people from different places all together in one place, without the ability to leave when one wants to (you can only get off at a port call).  If something goes sideways, it's a massive effort to get people safe, with everyone being relied on to be able to help themselves to a location and even then, be able to help themselves if necessary.  And, if they do get rescued to land, if it is not in their own country, some lately could not safely fly home due to existing circumstances.  This doesn't happen on a land trip - at least none that I have been on.  With that in mind, I am one of the probable few here who would like to get rid of the "self-identify" health statements ("yes, I paid $20,000 for this round the world cruise but I am just getting over the flu and I have a condition which disqualifies me from flying") and require a more rigorous health verification.  People will lie about their health, it happens.  People may have to get used to having to have a health verification done as part of the new norm, especially for long cruises.  It's not discriminatory - it's for the public health.  Some say the 'over 70' thing is ageism.  Nope.  It's a susceptibility issue.  But, it should be a verification for all - I don't think my friend who just finished chemo would be a good candidate for cruising right now with her compromised immune system.   

 

For the kind of exposure I think you are talking about I don't think cruising is all that unique.  Compare the crowds to that with attendance at NFL, NBA, or major league games.  Even to a large venue concert and it is really not that unique.  For crowded conditions, festivals, county fairs, even high school sports events have similar exposure.  

 

Anyway, I agree that reasonable and sensible precautions are good and warranted.  But there is no way we can be 100% protected against every potential risk, including viruses.  And, I hope no one  in any way attempts to force that.   

 

BTW, I don't think you really meant that there were hundreds of thousands of people all on a cruise ship.  No cruise ship holds that many crew and passengers --  yet!    😄😄😄

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, slidergirl said:

...

But, like with flu vaccinations, some people can't get them because they are allergic to one of the components - I remember that with the "live' vaccines.  Would you give them an exemption or say "sorry, you can't cruise."  It's an issue far beyond my pay grade.  

To a certain extent one has to accept the fact that, in some respects, life is not fair.  If the only way cruises could take place is if everyone who boards has to show proof of being vaccinated, then anyone who cannot show that proof cannot be allowed to board —- regardless of the reason they had for not being vaccinated.  If it were a matter of life or death  - say like entering a hospital for treatment, or even going to a grocery store to buy food, some accommodation would have to be devised.  But for an optional recreational activity like cruising????? 

[clo]

24 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

For the kind of exposure I think you are talking about I don't think cruising is all that unique.

Except for all or almost all of the other venues you can walk/run out.

[ldubs]

17 minutes ago, clo said:

Except for all or almost all of the other venues you can walk/run out.

 

How is that going to protect you from exposure.  And, if someone is exposed in one of the other venues, are you really suggesting they should run out and spread it to others. 

[cruisemom42]

58 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

For the kind of exposure I think you are talking about I don't think cruising is all that unique.  Compare the crowds to that with attendance at NFL, NBA, or major league games.  Even to a large venue concert and it is really not that unique.  For crowded conditions, festivals, county fairs, even high school sports events have similar exposure.  

 

The difference between those types of venues and a cruise ship is that at the other venues your exposure to most others is extremely minimal with exception of the few people seated near you. On a cruise ship where someone (or more than one someone) is infected, you may be exposed to them over and over during a period of days, increasing the chances that you will become infected.

[clo]

45 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

How is that going to protect you from exposure.  And, if someone is exposed in one of the other venues, are you really suggesting they should run out and spread it to others. 

The point being 'stuck' on a ship is far worse than being in an auditorium et al.

[clo]

35 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

The difference between those types of venues and a cruise ship is that at the other venues your exposure to most others is extremely minimal with exception of the few people seated near you. On a cruise ship where someone (or more than one someone) is infected, you may be exposed to them over and over during a period of days, increasing the chances that you will become infected.

I think you explained this the best. There seems to be some denial going on here. (Not you!)

[Cruzaholic41]

16 hours ago, cb at sea said:

Remember, 50% decrease in passengers will mean a doubling of the fare!

So?  I think most cruisers have gotten spoiled but today’s cheap prices.  Cruises cost the same today as they did 30 years ago so considering inflation, they’re significantly cheaper.  Maybe it’s time for a shift in the industry. 

[K32682]

12 hours ago, DarrenM said:

I am just fed up listening and reading comments suggesting things will never go back to the way they were.

 

Well I am determined they will and I know many many others that are determined as well.

 

Not now obviously but in time. Hopefully not that long a time.

 

Just sick of people being overtly negative about the future, as if life isn't currently depressing enough.

 

Life is going to get back to normal and we will cruise again and we will go to pubs and restaurants and we will all shake hands again.

 

And I hope to cruise again as soon as possible. In just the same way as I did last year.

 

The world changes and while pubs and restaurants will reopen and we might even shake hands again cruising like it was last year is less likely to return. 

 

Large cruise lines rely on volume and with the economy taking a hit, the recent images of forced quarantines, dead passengers and ships being turned away from ports it is quite reasonable to anticipate reduced passenger loads. 

 

Cruise lines are not high on any government bail-out lists so I expect lines to go into bankruptcy protection and reorganize.  There will be fewer passengers, fewer ships and the prices will be higher for the foreseeable future.

[Roz]

5 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

Maybe it’s time for a shift in the industry. 

 

Shift in the industry is code for shift middle class and lower middle class people off cruise ships due to higher fares.  I may be wrong about this, but one of the ways cruise lines were able to keep fares down has been by building bigger ships and offering more optional (extra charge) services such as specialty restaurants.

[Luckiestmanonearth]

13 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I share your positive outlook. 

But, handshaking? I stopped doing that years ago. 👍 works just fine.

I think I will have to agree with you.  It seems odd at first but once it becomes the norm, people will get over it.

On our last cruise in March when the crisis began, we met a lot of people and not once did we shake hands.  You could tell that all people involved felt strange not doing this traditional custom but all refrained and it seemed fine after a few days.

 

Culture is a word for the 'way of life' of groups of people, meaning the way they do things. ..

 

My guess is the norm will either be a head bob to acknowledge the other person, fist or elbow bump, or some other form of greeting 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Luckiestmanonearth

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, K32682 said:

 

The world changes and while pubs and restaurants will reopen and we might even shake hands again cruising like it was last year is less likely to return. 

 

Large cruise lines rely on volume and with the economy taking a hit, the recent images of forced quarantines, dead passengers and ships being turned away from ports it is quite reasonable to anticipate reduced passenger loads. 

 

Cruise lines are not high on any government bail-out lists so I expect lines to go into bankruptcy protection and reorganize.  There will be fewer passengers, fewer ships and the prices will be higher for the foreseeable future.

A good summary. 

 

The point is: cruising had evolved into an unsustainable model. Ever larger ships carrying ever more budget-minded passengers into ever more ports unable to handle them without losing what made them worth seeing in the first place.  

 

Sort of like a super-nova, the industry is likely to collapse into itself.  Some ships will be scrapped, some re-purposed, a few re-used —— and a new industry emerging, with new builds being smaller and less mass-market oriented.

[Markanddonna]

23 hours ago, ed01106 said:

Those changes are neither necessary nor sufficient.  If we have an effective vaccine then absolutely no changes are needed.  Without a vaccine there doesn't exist a set of measures that would prevent the spread on a cruise ship.

I don't recall saying this would solve the COVID19 problems.  They are just simple suggestions that would improve sanitary conditions onboard the ship for any type of contagious outbreak. There are all sorts of modifications and changes the cruise lines and travel industry can make to assist in making an improved environment after a vaccine is widely available.

 

[Joebucks]

On 4/11/2020 at 8:55 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

Let's get real here. It will be the premium/luxury lines that survive the strongest. Mass market seniors needing a doctor's note will bite the bullet and move up. Those upper lines' fares will increase to make up for the remaining mass market partner losses and, though not with a smile on their faces, their regular customers will pay the premium.

In all honesty, if that's the bottom line of a new reality, I could probably live with it (if for no other reason than reducing the environmental impact from the ever-growing mass market monstrosities.

 

That's a bold guess. The premium lines have an older audience, those who are most concerned with safety and cruising. Plus, we are undoubtedly heading into a recession. Not as many people had the kind of money they had before, making luxury cruises not exactly the ideal market. Maybe they won't be hit, maybe they will. I don't see its advantage over the mass market. People still want to cruise, and the younger crowds will be unphased.

 

20 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

If it meant getting rid of floating amusement parks and thundering herds of humanity overrunning desirable/unusual ports in need of far more environmental (and related) cautions, count me in.

 

As for it being an "expensive" prospect, I disagree. IMO, even premium/luxury lines are a tremendous value when one looks at the "net daily rate" cost for inclusive double occupancy cruising vs land based travel involving similar multiple locations that provide equally desirable high quality accommodations/food/service.

 

Of course, it might mean fewer cruises for some folks. But, a cruise industry "size correction" right now makes much sense. And the megaships could be taken over by municipalities for use as low income and/or temporary/emergency housing.

 

Confusing price and value again. Sure, for some people, looking at the big picture, they may be better off with such a vacation. At the end of the day, I don't care how many rare, golden, baby lobsters one company can give me $5-$10k is a lot of money for the average person. I can get away with a fantastic cruise on many other lines for a fraction of that. Your mention of quality makes it a value piece, not price.

[ldubs]

11 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

The difference between those types of venues and a cruise ship is that at the other venues your exposure to most others is extremely minimal with exception of the few people seated near you. On a cruise ship where someone (or more than one someone) is infected, you may be exposed to them over and over during a period of days, increasing the chances that you will become infected.

 

While I wouldn't say extremely minimal, that is a very good point CruiseMom.  Thanks.  

[ldubs]

10 hours ago, clo said:

The point being 'stuck' on a ship is far worse than being in an auditorium et al.

 

Hmmm, not to the rest of the population you are going to infect.  But that is far from the context of my comments.  

[clo]

3 hours ago, Roz said:

Shift in the industry is code for shift middle class and lower middle class people off cruise ships due to higher fares. 

Not everybody can afford everything.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Hmmm, not to the rest of the population you are going to infect.  But that is far from the context of my comments.  

My point is that being on a ship involved days to weeks whereas a lot of other venues are a few hours. Masks, social distancing could be done, etc.