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Any news from the Amsterdam?


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40 minutes ago, RMLincoln said:

 

Thank you for this breakdown John.  My research says that Amsterdam has a crew of approximately 600.  I would think that at least half are Indonesians.  With 172 having departed, that leaves over a hundred to stay aboard to keep the ship working.  And maybe a smaller number of Filipino crew will stay aboard too?  That's still a LOT of people to keep the ship operational.  Multiply that by the number of ships HAL has running around the globe and we can see that it will be awhile before HAL can get them parked with further reduced skeletal crews to catch a financial breath and slow down the payroll so they can make customer refunds. 

 

The picture is coming together, but oh so slowly.  It costs a lot to run crews home by ship!  They need ports to open and flights to open to get crews disembarked, and then get the ships "parked" in lay-up.  Makes us appreciate just how complex the industry is.   <sigh> m--

 

The Filipino community on HAL, like the Indonesians, are represented in most ship departments:

 

Nautical/Deck: Crew Physician; Security Officer; Security Supervisor; Security Guard; Fire Safety Attd; Locksmith

 

Technical: Carpenter; Upholsterer; Plumber; Technical Storekeeper; Machinist; Senior Electrical Fitter; Fitter; Waste Disposal Supervisor; Waste Disposal Operator; Provision Master; Asst. Provision Master

 

Beverage: various positions (one of the largest for Filipino representation)

 

Entertainment: Stage Crew; Audio Tech; Light Tech

 

Galley - various positions (one of the largest for Filipino representation)

 

Guest Services:  Guest Services Manager; Asst. GSM; Supervisor; Lead; Administrator; Associate; Int'l Guest Services Associate; I.T. Officer; Asst. I.T. Officer; Printer

 

Housekeeping: Sr. Tailor; Tailor

 

Stewarding: General Galley Steward aka "Blue Boys"

 

Concessionaires: Steiner/Spa; Casino

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I have learned something new this afternoon.  I did not know that most of those positions existed nor that Indonesians staffed them.  

 

The Front Office staff with whom I have met over the years are seemed to be Filipinos.  Sometimes an Officer dressed type woman/man would be observed that was a different nationality.  Usually, I thought, they were British, Dutch, or a North American.  

 

The avg. cruise ship passenger only comes in contact with certain crew positions; HK steward and asst., possibly their supervisors (cabin inspector/asst. housekeeper), restaurant servers, Doorman (aka Yum Yum man), security (gangway ingress and egress, hopefully never the security officer 😉), Guest Services (associates, international guest service associates, supervisors, asst GRM and/or GRM), Locksmith (possibly), Medical staff (let's hope not), Plumber (let's hope not), Beverage staff,  Lido food servers (known as kitchen assistants), cruise staff (Cruise & Travel director, D.J., EXC host) entertainers, musicians, casino, spa/gym, art people, shoppies, photographers, future cruise specialists, Tech Spert (now called digital workshop host), Tender drivers (quartermasters and/or sailors) - Who am I forgetting?

 

There is an entire slew of positions in "crew country," a variable small town in itself, that the passengers never see, incl. positions you probably never heard of. There is a Human Relations Manager (with clerk) and a Crew Officer (with clerk) specifically for the crew "downstairs."  There is a sheriff in town 😉 who investigates "issues" at times resulting in a Captain's Mast (a disciplinary hearing) in which the ship's five Dept. heads join the captain around a big table inside the HD office, an Environmental Officer (sometimes gives power point presentations to pax), Information Technology (I.T.) Officer and his asst., numerous positions in the Hotel (purser, controller,the very hard laundry room guys, the florist(s), night stewards, both the Indonesians and Filipinos have their own cooks for the crew galley), Deck (navigators, storekeepers, sailors, cadets) and Technical (electricians, sanitation officer, the always very hard working team in the "garbage room", the guys who work in the engine room and only see daylight on their time off ashore, cadets, etc.) Depts. that usually never interact with the passengers.

 

It is really, for the most part, a very well oiled machine, the parts of which rely on each others. Yes, it's not perfect and things go haywire at times. Another thing that most pax don't know is that the large groups; Indonesians, Filipinos, sometimes the Indians, have representation in the form of unit presidents who meet on a regular basis with the captain and hotel director to discuss issues. Really a very fascinating world to be a part of!   

Edited by Copper10-8
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43 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

It is really, for the most part, a very well oiled machine, the parts of which rely on each others. Yes, it's not perfect and things go haywire at times. Another thing that most pax don't know is that the large groups; Indonesians, Filipinos, sometimes the Indians, have representation in the form of unit presidents who meet on a regular basis with the captain and hotel director to discuss issues. Really a very fascinating world to be a part of!   

Edited 32 minutes ago by Copper10-8

 

I have heard Captains say that much of their day is dealing with paperwork, e-mails, and other issues that are not related to their prime duties as being the "Man in Charge" on the Bridge.  They are ultimately responsible, obviously, for what the OOW for the Watch decides.  I know that each Captain has very explicit directions as to when the OOW is to call for the Master's assistance on the Bridge.  That provides me with confidence that I am in good hands when I am a guest.  

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55 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

The avg. cruise ship passenger only comes in contact with certain crew positions; HK steward and asst., possibly their supervisors (cabin inspector/asst. housekeeper), restaurant servers, Doorman (aka Yum Yum man), security (gangway ingress and egress, hopefully never the security officer 😉), Guest Services (associates, international guest service associates, supervisors, asst GRM and/or GRM), Locksmith (possibly), Medical staff (let's hope not), Plumber (let's hope not), Beverage staff,  Lido food servers (known as kitchen assistants), cruise staff (Cruise & Travel director, D.J., EXC host) entertainers, musicians, casino, spa/gym, art people, shoppies, photographers, future cruise specialists, Tech Spert (now called digital workshop host), Tender drivers (quartermasters and/or sailors) - Who am I forgetting?

 

There is an entire slew of positions in "crew country," a variable small town in itself, that the passengers never see, incl. positions you probably never heard of. There is a Human Relations Manager (with clerk) and a Crew Officer (with clerk) specifically for the crew "downstairs."  There is a sheriff in town 😉 who investigates "issues" at times resulting in a Captain's Mast (a disciplinary hearing) in which the ship's five Dept. heads join the captain around a big table inside the HD office, an Environmental Officer (sometimes gives power point presentations to pax), Information Technology (I.T.) Officer and his asst., numerous positions in the Hotel (purser, controller,the very hard laundry room guys, the florist(s), night stewards, both the Indonesians and Filipinos have their own cooks for the crew galley), Deck (navigators, storekeepers, sailors, cadets) and Technical (electricians, sanitation officer, the always very hard working team in the "garbage room", the guys who work in the engine room and only see daylight on their time off ashore, cadets, etc.) Depts. that usually never interact with the passengers.

 

It is really, for the most part, a very well oiled machine, the parts of which rely on each others. Yes, it's not perfect and things go haywire at times. Another thing that most pax don't know is that the large groups; Indonesians, Filipinos, sometimes the Indians, have representation in the form of unit presidents who meet on a regular basis with the captain and hotel director to discuss issues. Really a very fascinating world to be a part of!   

 

Once, I requested a flow chart to show the organizational arrangement of a ship.  I did this simply for my informational purposes.  Never received such other than a nice reply that it could not be provided.  Probably just as well.  My printer would have probably run out of ink and paper before I might have been able to print it.😀 

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6 hours ago, Frank5 said:

Read somewhere that it takes approximately 200 crew members to remain on board to keep a mid size cruise ship in warm-up condition which is defined as the ability to get underway and resume operations in about one week.  A more complex task and more time consuming may be to contact replacement crew, sign contracts and transport some of them to the ship once a new schedule is determined.  I'd be surprised if all these tasks could be completed in just a week.  Then you need to move the ship to its first embarkation port.  If you must do this for 10+ ships, the logistics must be very challenging and time consuming.


The Amsterdam will be in a layup much longer than a warm layup.  All her cruises have been cancelled until the end of the Grand Africa this fall.  That takes the time period right up to the traditional holiday cruise prior to the World Cruise.  She still needs dry dock for mandatory hull inspection too.  I’m not thinking she will be one of the first HAL ships brought back into service.  
 

Linda R.

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34 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

@Copper10-8

Are they able to bring new relief crew onboard to replace those who have ended up overstaying their contracts, to continue to crew the ship for layup, etc.?

 

 

Not on a regular basis, No. The crew that have been repatriated have been non-essential crew, so not needed to keep the ships (without passengers) in functional operation. It will be interesting to see what happens when those ships reach their prolonged layup locations, some of which will be in Malaysia    

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23 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

The avg. cruise ship passenger only comes in contact with certain crew positions; HK steward and asst., possibly their supervisors (cabin inspector/asst. housekeeper), restaurant servers, Doorman (aka Yum Yum man), security (gangway ingress and egress, hopefully never the security officer 😉), Guest Services (associates, international guest service associates, supervisors, asst GRM and/or GRM), Locksmith (possibly), Medical staff (let's hope not), Plumber (let's hope not), Beverage staff,  Lido food servers (known as kitchen assistants), cruise staff (Cruise & Travel director, D.J., EXC host) entertainers, musicians, casino, spa/gym, art people, shoppies, photographers, future cruise specialists, Tech Spert (now called digital workshop host), Tender drivers (quartermasters and/or sailors) - Who am I forgetting?

 

There is an entire slew of positions in "crew country," a variable small town in itself, that the passengers never see, incl. positions you probably never heard of. There is a Human Relations Manager (with clerk) and a Crew Officer (with clerk) specifically for the crew "downstairs."  There is a sheriff in town 😉 who investigates "issues" at times resulting in a Captain's Mast (a disciplinary hearing) in which the ship's five Dept. heads join the captain around a big table inside the HD office, an Environmental Officer (sometimes gives power point presentations to pax), Information Technology (I.T.) Officer and his asst., numerous positions in the Hotel (purser, controller,the very hard laundry room guys, the florist(s), night stewards, both the Indonesians and Filipinos have their own cooks for the crew galley), Deck (navigators, storekeepers, sailors, cadets) and Technical (electricians, sanitation officer, the always very hard working team in the "garbage room", the guys who work in the engine room and only see daylight on their time off ashore, cadets, etc.) Depts. that usually never interact with the passengers.

 

It is really, for the most part, a very well oiled machine, the parts of which rely on each others. Yes, it's not perfect and things go haywire at times. Another thing that most pax don't know is that the large groups; Indonesians, Filipinos, sometimes the Indians, have representation in the form of unit presidents who meet on a regular basis with the captain and hotel director to discuss issues. Really a very fascinating world to be a part of!   

I encounter some of the taylors and cooks at the Crew Mass on Sunday night.

Edited by Himself
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6 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

Not on a regular basis, No. The crew that have been repatriated have been non-essential crew, so not needed to keep the ships (without passengers) in functional operation. It will be interesting to see what happens when those ships reach their prolonged layup locations, some of which will be in Malaysia    

 

6 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

Not on a regular basis, No. The crew that have been repatriated have been non-essential crew, so not needed to keep the ships (without passengers) in functional operation. It will be interesting to see what happens when those ships reach their prolonged layup locations, some of which will be in Malaysia    

I am more than  little concerned about the survival of HAL.  

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11 hours ago, Himself said:

 

I am more than  little concerned about the survival of HAL.  

 

I expect we all are.

It's a very serious situation. I'm glad I don't have to solve it.

We've been cruising since 1965....a long time....and we'll go back when it is reasonably safe, but not until.

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We continue to send our good thoughts and wishes for the safe repatriation 

of all the crew members, especially Captain Johnathan.  We are looking

forward to our next cruise of HAL. whenever, they start to sail again.

Thanks to Copper 10-8 these boards continue to educate.  Thanks .

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58 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

Ms. Amsterdam has arrived in Manila...

 

Well, almost arrived.  I found this about with the latest info noted as being from about 20 minutes ago from when I'm posting.

Close at least, finally!  On another note, the crew in Jakarta have all gotten their results from testing and they are all negative.  Of course, we all knew that!  They will leave for home, by bus, tomorrow.

 

Linda R.

Screen Shot 2020-05-11 at 11.47.41 AM.png

Edited by cruzingnut
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12 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

All on one island?

 

Roy

 

No.  Some will need to take ongoing transportation to get home.  Ferries are running now so that's how they will get home.

 

Linda R.

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2 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

Ms. Amsterdam has arrived in Manila...

 

Not in Manila; in Manila Bay along with now 21 other cruise ships. The new ones along with Amsterdam are Sapphire Princess, Royal Princess and Carnival Spirit with P&O Australia's Pacific Aria (the former HAL Ryndam) also in the mix - she would make No. 22.

 

It's "let's take a number" time. Capt. Mercer talked about a fourteen-day quarantine period before even being considered to let crew disembark (more than likely via tender as occurred in Tanjung Priok/Jakarta last week with the 175 indonesian crew). We shall see 

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So far in Manilla Bay:

 

1. Eurodam - Holland America Line

2. Golden Princess - Princess Cruises

3. Sea Princess - Princess Cruises

4. Ruby Princess - Princess Cruises

5. Sun Princess - Princess Cruises

6. Majestic Princess - Princess Cruises

7. Queen Elizabeth - Cunard

8. Voyager of the Seas - Royal Caribbean

9. Ovation of the Seas - Royal Caribbean

10. Celebrity Solstice - Celebrity Cruises

11. Costa Venezia - Costa Crociere

12. Costa Neoromantica - Costa Crociere

13. Costa Serena - Costa Crociere

14. Carnival Splendor - Carnival Cruise Line

15. Carnival Panorama - Carnival Cruise Line

16. Pacific Explorer - P&O Australia

17. Pacific Dawn - P&O Australia

18. Explorer Dream - Dream Cruises

 

Enroute/on the way:

 

19. Amsterdam - Holland America Line - arriving a bit later today

20. Royal Princess - Princess Cruise Line - arriving a bit later today

21. Sapphire Princess - Princess Cruise Line - arriving a bit later today

22. Pacific Aria (the former HAL Ryndam) - P&O Australia - arriving a bit later today

23. Carnival Spirit - Carnival Cruises - arriving a bit later today

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If Carnival Corp is forced to reorganize in bankruptcy, they will eventually reappear after restructuring their debt and resume operations at some level. They may be required to sell some ships and/or operate on a reduced basis.  Their debt holders may even allow them to resume operations until a restructuring agreement can be negotiated.  If Carnival owes customers refunds, they will be treated as unsecured creditors.

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One item that has gotten little ink on the Amsterdam is passenger luggage.  When we were thrown off, I mean asked to disembark in Fremantle many many passengers left luggage on board.  Why one might ask, well many went to FLL via car and assumed they would be leaving FLL by car.  When you drive to a port, you can take lots of luggage.  Others also shipped luggage to the ship as part of their stateroom perks.  Also remember, it’s a long cruise, 128 days in theory.  When we disembarked, the plan at that time was for the ship to go to South Africa, refuel and then on to FLL.  Obviously that did not happen.  So now, our luggage is still on the ship.  Unlike other issues with HAL during this crisis, we have received emails on this topic.  The first was to let us know they had not forgotten about our luggage and they were going to ship it home from Asia.  A second email asked for an inventory of what was in our luggage.  That one was hard to do since it’s been two months.  They need the list to provide TSA or port authorities info on what is  in our luggage.  So our understanding is that now our luggage will be shipped home from some Asian port (Thankfully in a container).  Not sure which port as I believe the ship heads to Malaysia after the visit to Manila.  We all appreciate that they needed to get the crew situation straight first but at some point we would like to se our luggage returned.

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2 hours ago, KirkNC said:

One item that has gotten little ink on the Amsterdam is passenger luggage.  When we were thrown off, I mean asked to disembark in Fremantle many many passengers left luggage on board.  Why one might ask, well many went to FLL via car and assumed they would be leaving FLL by car.  When you drive to a port, you can take lots of luggage.  Others also shipped luggage to the ship as part of their stateroom perks.  Also remember, it’s a long cruise, 128 days in theory.  When we disembarked, the plan at that time was for the ship to go to South Africa, refuel and then on to FLL.  Obviously that did not happen.  So now, our luggage is still on the ship.  Unlike other issues with HAL during this crisis, we have received emails on this topic.  The first was to let us know they had not forgotten about our luggage and they were going to ship it home from Asia.  A second email asked for an inventory of what was in our luggage.  That one was hard to do since it’s been two months.  They need the list to provide TSA or port authorities info on what is  in our luggage.  So our understanding is that now our luggage will be shipped home from some Asian port (Thankfully in a container).  Not sure which port as I believe the ship heads to Malaysia after the visit to Manila.  We all appreciate that they needed to get the crew situation straight first but at some point we would like to se our luggage returned.

You make a very good point.  I hope they get your luggage to you and soon!

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3 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

So far in Manilla Bay:

 

1. Eurodam - Holland America Line

2. Golden Princess - Princess Cruises

3. Sea Princess - Princess Cruises

4. Ruby Princess - Princess Cruises

5. Sun Princess - Princess Cruises

6. Majestic Princess - Princess Cruises

7. Queen Elizabeth - Cunard

8. Voyager of the Seas - Royal Caribbean

9. Ovation of the Seas - Royal Caribbean

10. Celebrity Solstice - Celebrity Cruises

11. Costa Venezia - Costa Crociere

12. Costa Neoromantica - Costa Crociere

13. Costa Serena - Costa Crociere

14. Carnival Splendor - Carnival Cruise Line

15. Carnival Panorama - Carnival Cruise Line

16. Pacific Explorer - P&O Australia

17. Pacific Dawn - P&O Australia

18. Explorer Dream - Dream Cruises

 

Enroute/on the way:

 

19. Amsterdam - Holland America Line - arriving a bit later today

20. Royal Princess - Princess Cruise Line - arriving a bit later today

21. Sapphire Princess - Princess Cruise Line - arriving a bit later today

22. Pacific Aria (the former HAL Ryndam) - P&O Australia - arriving a bit later today

23. Carnival Spirit - Carnival Cruises - arriving a bit later today

Copper 10-8, The thought of all these ships in Manila Bay reminds me of flying into Panama City and seeing all the ships waiting for their turn to go through the Canal.  I just love the view, day or night.  Different circumstances indeed,  but a large gathering of vessels.  Thanks for all the good info.  Cherie  

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