Repairing a trashed image

[mayleeman]

Ultimately, all may depend on the first group, and the first batch of them. If a bunch of people get infected again, there will be no ports and no new cruisrs. All 3 groups will get bigger or smaller based entirely on what the shipboard experiences of the guinea pig cruisers is like.

[OnTheJourney]

6 hours ago, Ombud said:

This is just my opinion:

 

True but I read elsewhere (and I agree) that there seems to be 3 types of cruisers:

1. Cruising for shipboard experiences (sea days)

2. Cruising to get from 1 place to another (port intensive)

3. New cruisers 

#1 will be back asap.  #2 might not be back. #3 taking longer but people have short memories (911, Sars, Mers)

 

I think there is probably a pretty large group that enjoys a mix of #1 and #2 and so don't fit into either exclusively. 

[OnTheJourney]

3 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

I'm # 1.5 because I like both the destinations and the ship experience. 

 

Didn't see this before I just posted!! We essentially expressed the same viewpoint. 

[ldubs]

On 4/5/2020 at 7:17 AM, Joebucks said:

 

 

Come back and ask this question again once the cruise lines can "prove" that the threat is gone. If they even need to, they can throw out all types of offers for cheaper cruises/drinks. Tell me then that any significant amount of people will be like "I deserved faster treatment during a pandemic, it's not enough!"

 

Do you think the cruise lines will ever be able to "prove" the threat is gone.  Realistically, I don't think this is even possible.  But if it were,  and I were them, I would be worried about the repercussions of making any kind of guarantee of safety against illness.  I think there will be a lot of talk about actions taken to keep the ship "clean", but beyond that, I doubt anything remotely like saying the threat is gone is going to happen.   

 

And, of course, just my opinion, which in truth is worth about what you paid to read it!  Haha.    

[clo]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Do you think the cruise lines will ever be able to "prove" the threat is gone.  Realistically, I don't think this is even possible.  But if it were,  and I were them, I would be worried about the repercussions of making any kind of guarantee of safety against illness.  I think there will be a lot of talk about actions taken to keep the ship "clean", but beyond that, I doubt anything remotely like saying the threat is gone is going to happen.   

 

And, of course, just my opinion, which in truth is worth about what you paid to read it!  Haha.    

I'm going to tack this on here. What about the insurance companies for the cruise line companies. What are THEY going to require? I know nothing about this. Help!

[ldubs]

15 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm going to tack this on here. What about the insurance companies for the cruise line companies. What are THEY going to require? I know nothing about this. Help!

 

I know a fair amount about loss control and risk management in our domestic property/casualty marketplace.  But cruise line protection/indemnity and ocean marine insurance are specialties that are beyond my knowledge.   Mrs Ldub's old company had ocean marine specialists, but that was handled by a select group.

 

I guess this is long hand for I can't really help.  😄  

[AF-1]

The OP asked about trashed images.  It can be the cruise lines, the riverboat line, the airlines.  Change is coming; some have already made changes to the way they do business.  Today we have social media, facebook, twitter, instagram, etc.  The travel industry have these and they monitor them.  The last thing they want is negative publicity.  So, they are making changes. Example is Delta Airlines.  They have a completely new cleaning routine for all their jets, and all their gate areas. I am thinking that once the cruise industry gets back up and running; they too will implement new changes.  I can see cruise lines taking passenger temperatures.  You will most likely be signing a form that says if you don't comply with this; you won't be able to cruise. This is pure speculation on my part.  My point is; there will be a lot of good that comes out of this worldwide virus.  Locally food establishments will change their sanitation procedures; airlilnes, hotels, ships, etc.   Change is good.   Have a wonderful day; have a Holy Week and bless all who have read my post

[OnTheJourney]

11 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Do you think the cruise lines will ever be able to "prove" the threat is gone.  Realistically, I don't think this is even possible.  

 

Have to agree. While places like Wuhan are starting to seem relatively free of new cases, some uncertainty will always remain. Two key variables, of course, are what happens with possible (likely?) resurgences of COVID-19 going forward and also the level at which we arrive in the way of vaccines and/or other treatment. Apart from decisions made within the front offices of cruise or travel companies, this is where the individual consumer's feeling of safety (or not) comes into play as to when THEY feel safe. Doesn't do much good to reopen schedules if you're not going to be able to fill rooms...or bus / plane seats too. I think people will be 'chomping at the bit', so-to-speak, to get back out on the highways and oceans. While there will undoubtedly be much restlessness to rejoin the various travel activities as things start to open up and seem "safer", a big part of the equation is where we wind up in terms of the economy and unemployment, which will decidedly affect millions of people's discretionary spending - perhaps for quite some time. Having had the longest bull market in history = lots of money available to a significant segment of the population to indulge in travel over the past 11 years. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[AF-1]

The US economy will be in a recession coming out of Covid-19.  There will be companies who have been waiting to buy, buy, buy; and now that the stock market has lost its value; these companies will buy.  This will help somewhat to get the markets heading up again.  Along with the federal gov't propping things up with aid.  Nothing will happen overnight;  but I think 2020 will end way better than how the first quarter ended.  

[iancal]

Since retiring eight years ago we find ourselves doing far less cruising and spending much more time doing independent land trips.   We find the value of cruising to us has decreased over time.  More so since retiring.

 

I expect this to continue for as long as we are physically able and have the travel bug.  I cannot see us taking a cruise for quite some time, if ever.   At the moment we are tentatively planning a fall land trip and a winter trip in case the scourge passes.  In the past we have always looked at cruises that were complementary to our land travels.  Not so any more.

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by iancal

[OnTheJourney]

23 hours ago, AF-1 said:

now that the stock market has lost its value; these companies will buy.  This will help somewhat to get the markets heading up again.  

 

You do realize, I assume, that the Dow has at least temporarily regained close to 30% (in only 3 weeks) of what it lost based on the 3/23 low of 18,591? That's an increase of over 5k points. Far different than what I would have expected given the unprecedented unemployment numbers. Can't underestimate the market's ability to "price in" all sorts of situations that come along I suppose. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[AF-1]

OnTheJourney;  yes I get what you are saying.  I have faith in the stock market.  To quote Warren Buffet, when they asked him about his huge market loss.  He said; "I lost nothing because it is on paper; I was not planning on selling my shares so I have no real losss" 

[OnTheJourney]

22 hours ago, iancal said:

Since retiring eight years ago we find ourselves doing far less cruising and spending much more time doing independent land trips.   We find the value of cruising to us has decreased over time.  More so since retiring.

 

I expect this to continue for as long as we are physically able and have the travel bug.  I cannot see us taking a cruise for quite some time, if ever.   At the moment we are tentatively planning a fall land trip and a winter trip in case the scourge passes.  In the past we have always looked at cruises that were complementary to our land travels.  Not so any more.

 

 

I totally understand your views. We like both modes of travel. For land - either by tour companies such as Tauck and Collette, or else DIY trips by car. For us, while we have gotten to the point where we enjoy cruising in and of itself far more than we anticipated we would initially, cruises are still chosen primarily for destinations that we've  not been to yet and want to visit. I suspect this probably differs somewhat to some folks for whom the cruise is the primary goal with the destination being somewhat secondary in importance. This may not be a totally accurate observation but I think there's some merit to it. Also, unlike how most land tour companies are set up, cruising - with often having the tiered points / loyalty-rewards programs - draws people in and keeps them coming back. It's the attitude of 'only two more cruises and I'm at the next level and thus get X number of extra perks', etc. So as a result, it's easy to become very loyal to a limited number of cruise lines. While we have fallen into this same category of cruisers to some extent, we don't feel loyal to any one company. For us, having done most of our cruises with one or two lines is in great part due to living within 2 hours of Bayonne - thus the convenience of not having to fly. 

 

Anyway, you hit the key point in indicating "as long as we are physically able and have the travel bug". All true for us as well in retirement.  Interesting thought you mention about cruises being chosen that compliment your land travels. Can you elaborate on that? Are you indicating that you do the equivalent of a cruise B2B, only in terms of doing a land tour immediately before or after a cruise? 

[AF-1]

Sure wish I was not landlocked.  Being able to drive to a cruise port has some great advantages.  Having to fly to all the cruise ports can make things iffy.  Have a wonderful week.

[OnTheJourney]

1 minute ago, AF-1 said:

OnTheJourney;  yes I get what you are saying.  I have faith in the stock market.  To quote Warren Buffet, when they asked him about his huge market loss.  He said; "I lost nothing because it is on paper; I was not planning on selling my shares so I have no real losss" 

 

Absolutely! It took alot to resist selling severely depressed shares back in '09. I held on, and thus reaped the benefits of the bull market that came after. I truly anticipated this event to be similar or worse - and felt the same anxieties as we approached the lows of 3/23. I think we might still test a few support levels yet - time will tell. Suffice it to say I expected far worse than what we've seen so far.

 

Still, money is just money. No amount of it can ever come close to making up for the heartbreak of losing close to a hundred thousand lives to this virus so far. 

[OnTheJourney]

3 minutes ago, AF-1 said:

Sure wish I was not landlocked.  Being able to drive to a cruise port has some great advantages.  Having to fly to all the cruise ports can make things iffy.  Have a wonderful week.

 

I know...we're very fortunate being close to a port. I have no issue with flying (well, under 'normal' circumstances anyway) if we need to travel to a port that has a cruise and itinerary that we want. But as we get older, the no-flying option does have greater appeal. Stay safe and healthy...

Edited April 9, 2020 by OnTheJourney

[iancal]

On the journey.....If we are on a land trip in Europe, for example we will keep our eye out for a good last minute cruise offer. .  We have  done this numerous times in Europe and in the Caribbean. If we see a cruise that works we consider it.  If not we carry on with our land arrangements. We typically only make hotel arrangements etc. a few days in advance in order to keep our schedule very flexible.

 

 One of the last ones we picked up was Rome to Barcelona.  We were in Palermo and had been traveling for six weeks.  The cruise was perfect timing.  We simply flew to Rome.   Better yet, it had excellent cruise air home-we started the trip with a one way ticket.    We wanted to do some land travel in South and Central America.  We bought a SA cruise.   Wrapped a month of independent land travel around the two week cruise.  Did it in Australia two winters ago.  Picked up a last minute 21 day Oz/NZ cruise.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by iancal

[clo]

24 minutes ago, AF-1 said:

He said; "I lost nothing because it is on paper; I was not planning on selling my shares so I have no real losss" 

That was our situation in '08. We came all the way back in about 18 months. During that time we made lifestyle changes, including NO travel. It's what we're anticipating now.

[AF-1]

I hear you clo;  have faith and enjoy the small things

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, AF-1 said:

OnTheJourney;  yes I get what you are saying.  I have faith in the stock market.  To quote Warren Buffet, when they asked him about his huge market loss.  He said; "I lost nothing because it is on paper; I was not planning on selling my shares so I have no real losss" 

 

Buffett is such a voice of reason; I wish more people would take his advice to heart. I realize the situation is different once retired, but I have several (!) years of working ahead of me yet and I have faith the market will be at least where it was, if not higher by the time I retire. (And until then, my 401K contributions will be purchasing stocks at a good value...)

Edited April 9, 2020 by cruisemom42

[iancal]

This is the third (or maybe the fourth) time for us.

 

Each time I listened to DW and stayed pat.  During the last downturn we stayed put and we bought in even more.  No regrets.

[K32682]

20 hours ago, AF-1 said:

Sure wish I was not landlocked.  Being able to drive to a cruise port has some great advantages.  Having to fly to all the cruise ports can make things iffy.  Have a wonderful week.

 

Flying is far less iffy than spending a week or longer on a boat in close quarters with thousands of other people.  No one was forced to quarantine for two weeks on an airplane and no airports turned planes away because they might have had an infected passenger.  

[navybankerteacher]

19 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Buffett is such a voice of reason; I wish more people would take his advice to heart. I realize the situation is different once retired, but I have several (!) years of working ahead of me yet and I have faith the market will be at least where it was, if not higher by the time I retire. (And until then, my 401K contributions will be purchasing stocks at a good value...)

Of course, the way you look at a 401k has to evolve.  In your 20’s you have to discipline yourself to defer current wants and put anything in;  in your 30’s, 40’s and 50’s you need to think very long term; in your 60’s you have to start thinking “harvest” rather than “planting”.  And, Buffett aside, you DO have to consider selling your stock — so a downturn needs to built into your plans.  That’s why security becomes increasingly important vis a vis growth as you age.  The “years to 100” rule makes sense in equity allocation.  When you are 30 and have 70 years at least 70% should in growth (ie equity), at 85, for example, more than 15% at risk of downturn is reckless.

[AF-1]

navybankerteacher.  I get it and understand where you are coming from.  Have a wonderful day

[Hlitner]

21 hours ago, iancal said:

On the journey.....If we are on a land trip in Europe, for example we will keep our eye out for a good last minute cruise offer. .  We have  done this numerous times in Europe and in the Caribbean. If we see a cruise that works we consider it.  If not we carry on with our land arrangements. We typically only make hotel arrangements etc. a few days in advance in order to keep our schedule very flexible.

 

 One of the last ones we picked up was Rome to Barcelona.  We were in Palermo and had been traveling for six weeks.  The cruise was perfect timing.  We simply flew to Rome.   Better yet, it had excellent cruise air home-we started the trip with a one way ticket.    We wanted to do some land travel in South and Central America.  We bought a SA cruise.   Wrapped a month of independent land travel around the two week cruise.  Did it in Australia two winters ago.  Picked up a last minute 21 day Oz/NZ cruise.

 

 

A few here know we are avid cruisers and have been cruising, extensively, for over forty years.  We still have 4 booked cruises, totally 86 days, but it is now likely that at least one of those will be cancelled.  While the cruise industry talks about special doctors forms, extensive health screenings, eliminating buffets, etc.  this does nothing to lure me back to extensive cruising.  Perhaps the cruise line needs to provide me with doctors notes that cover the entire crew, proof that all air filters on the ship have been converted to HEPA filters and changed on a regular basis, that all luggage coming aboard goes through some kind of disinfection procedure, and that the cruise line provides me with written proof, from each of the ports, that they will be allowed to dock or tender.  We, the passengers, are only a small part of the equation with the cruise ship being the other major part.  

 

Hank