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The C.D.C. reverses course on how to get cruise ship passengers home


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9 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

Sound guidelines for the current times, but I don't see why this would be continued after the COVID-19 pandemic is over. In fact, it would be very difficult for every cruise line to provide private transportation home for everyone when all ships are sailing again. Furthermore, how does the CDC or anyone else enforce the private travel order when passengers have to travel long distances by air to dozens of different countries? 

 

After the worst of the pandemic is behind us IMO this will still apply but only to ships that come back with COVID cases, i.e., if a ship reports no URIs or COVID like symptoms the pax would disembark normally.  Only if there is a potential outbreak will this be followed but that is my opinion, the CDC may change their minds.  And while it applies to all, once a charter flight arrives at a foreign airport the local authorities would have jurisdiction.  At the moment many are requiring mandatory 14 quarantines, the UK, Canada, Australia, and others.

Edited by bluesea321
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And it not just the CDC, now the airlines also:

 

"A union which represents around 28,000 flight attendants at American Airlines stopped its crew from working a scheduled flight between Miami and Dallas Fort Worth on Sunday after learning that a group of cruise line passengers and employees were due to travel on the flight. The decision comes just over a day after flight attendants at United Airlines barred 135 Australian tourists from the COVID-19 stricken Zaandam cruise ship boarding a flight from San Francisco to Sydney."

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/04/06/american-airlines-flight-attendants-have-also-refused-to-fly-cruise-ship-passengers-home-after-cdc-urgently-changes-guidance/

 

Edited by bluesea321
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8 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

And it not just the CDC, now the airlines also:

 

"A union which represents around 28,000 flight attendants at American Airlines stopped its crew from working a scheduled flight between Miami and Dallas Fort Worth on Sunday after learning that a group of cruise line passengers and employees were due to travel on the flight. The decision comes just over a day after flight attendants at United Airlines barred 135 Australian tourists from the COVID-19 stricken Zaandam cruise ship boarding a flight from San Francisco to Sydney."

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/04/06/american-airlines-flight-attendants-have-also-refused-to-fly-cruise-ship-passengers-home-after-cdc-urgently-changes-guidance/

 

Also here:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2020/04/05/american-airlines-adds-miami-dallas-flight-boosting-spacing-for-cruise-returnees/#709b0b6a192d

 

Not surprised.  The commercial airline industry is grinding to a halt.  Frankly, I'm amazed that any commercial flights are running at all.

Edited by DaveSJ711
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1 hour ago, commodoredave said:

Sound guidelines for the current times, but I don't see why this would be continued after the COVID-19 pandemic is over. In fact, it would be very difficult for every cruise line to provide private transportation home for everyone when all ships are sailing again. Furthermore, how does the CDC or anyone else enforce the private travel order when passengers have to travel long distances by air to dozens of different countries? 

The biggest impact is if cruise lines try and start up while Covid-19 is on going.  It basically gives notice to the cruise lines that they cannot count on bringing infected ships to the us, unload passengers and depend upon the government or commercial transport to get them home.  Adds major cost risk to the cruise decision.

 

The CDC can enforce it by denying commercial aircraft  boarding inside the US to passengers from infected ships.  What happens when those charter aircraft land in foreign countries would be up to those countries. 

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Passengers come from many separate locations. How would Charter flights handle this; 2 from St Paul; 3 from SFO, 2 from Tulsa etc. Would they charter to major hubs and force Pax to rent cars for the final leg ???

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4 hours ago, Tedferg said:

Passengers come from many separate locations. How would Charter flights handle this; 2 from St Paul; 3 from SFO, 2 from Tulsa etc. Would they charter to major hubs and force Pax to rent cars for the final leg ???

Quite true. And how would the CDC enforce private transportation rules when 4 Australians, 8 English, 6 French, 20 Canadians, 3 Austrians, 6 Germans, etc. get off the ship? Would they all have to pay for private charter flights back home, and how can they be forced to if they cannot afford it? 

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7 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

Quite true. And how would the CDC enforce private transportation rules when 4 Australians, 8 English, 6 French, 20 Canadians, 3 Austrians, 6 Germans, etc. get off the ship? Would they all have to pay for private charter flights back home, and how can they be forced to if they cannot afford it? 

 

Now come on...   the CDC will enforce the rules in the US only.  Once your Australians, English, French, etc. get home on charter flights their countries can do whatever they want with them; most are quarantining the passengers now.  And the cruise lines would have to pay for the charter flights, not the pax, but only IF there is COVID on the ship.

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1 hour ago, commodoredave said:

Quite true. And how would the CDC enforce private transportation rules when 4 Australians, 8 English, 6 French, 20 Canadians, 3 Austrians, 6 Germans, etc. get off the ship? Would they all have to pay for private charter flights back home, and how can they be forced to if they cannot afford it? 

A number of different charters on smaller jets.  3 Different flights with the one to Europe doing multiple stops.  I expect that it would be cruise line expense, not passenger.

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On 4/5/2020 at 8:43 PM, Tex Mex said:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/holland-america-cruise-passenger-florida-disembark-coronavirus

 

If I understood this article correctly HAL passengers were chartered to ATL then put on commercial flights from there.  Kind of defeats the purpose of the charter flight in my opinion.

You misunderstood as they were put on chartered flights from Atlanta. We know a couple who were on one of those ships.  From Atlanta to Richmond there was one other group from the ship and two service members who volunteered to be on the flight. No other passengers.

Also they are required to self quarantine for 14 after they get home.

Edited by Potstech
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9 hours ago, npcl said:

A number of different charters on smaller jets.  3 Different flights with the one to Europe doing multiple stops.  I expect that it would be cruise line expense, not passenger.

So cruise lines will have to pay for all non-USA resident passengers to fly home? On a private charter?!  Let's be real. This is only necessary during a period of a pandemic outbreak, and cannot possibly work in a post-pandemic period. If this became the new norm, the cruise industry would have to mothball many ships, and/or reposition a good number to ports outside the USA where the rule would not apply. 

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So, in the new cruise contracts, there will be fine print about you are solely responsible for arranging your own "private" transportation from the ship... that is my guess.

 

 

 

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On 4/5/2020 at 7:43 PM, Tex Mex said:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/holland-america-cruise-passenger-florida-disembark-coronavirus

If I understood this article correctly HAL passengers were chartered to ATL then put on commercial flights from there.  Kind of defeats the purpose of the charter flight in my opinion.

 

13 hours ago, Potstech said:

You misunderstood as they were put on chartered flights from Atlanta. We know a couple who were on one of those ships.  From Atlanta to Richmond there was one other group from the ship and two service members who volunteered to be on the flight. No other passengers.

 

No, he did not misunderstand.  If you go to the CC HAL board you will see that some were flown to Atlanta on a charter and then put on commercial flights from there.  The same happened after the charter to San Francisco.  One prolific HAL poster had his brother on the ATL flight and his brother took a commercial flight to Charlotte at the ATL airport.  This was before the CDC changed the rules; as of Sunday it is no longer allowed.

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5 minutes ago, Potstech said:

Then you are saying friends who I have known for over 20 years are liars?  Not likely.

 

No I did not say that, I said that others, not your friends, were indeed put on commercial flights, this is a fact.  Quit looking for arguments.

Edited by bluesea321
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9 hours ago, commodoredave said:

So cruise lines will have to pay for all non-USA resident passengers to fly home? On a private charter?!  Let's be real. This is only necessary during a period of a pandemic outbreak, and cannot possibly work in a post-pandemic period. If this became the new norm, the cruise industry would have to mothball many ships, and/or reposition a good number to ports outside the USA where the rule would not apply. 

They did not say it applies post pandemic, only to when there are known cases of Covid-19 on board a ship.

 

It is basically a message to the cruise lines to stop assuming that they can come to a us port with Covid-19 on board, do temperature testing and send people home via public transport.

 

Also will put a crimp in any startup plans in the near future while Covid-19 is still out there. The feds are limited in what they can do to discourage cruise lines from starting up, but clearly they can do this.

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1 hour ago, Potstech said:

Then you are saying friends who I have known for over 20 years are liars?  Not likely.

Well are you calling those posting on the HAL board that said that they took charters to Atlanta, then switched to commercial flights liars?

 

You are basically telling bluesea321 that he is incorrect when he said that HAL organized a charter that flew to Atlanta and then  people went commercial from there.

 

Logically speaking you would need to prove that everyone that flew to Atlanta ended up on charter flights to their destination, not just your friends.  On the other hand all he would need to prove is that at least 1 person that took the charter to Atlanta ended up on commercial flights.

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12 minutes ago, npcl said:

They did not say it applies post pandemic, only to when there are known cases of Covid-19 on board a ship.

 

It is basically a message to the cruise lines to stop assuming that they can come to a us port with Covid-19 on board, do temperature testing and send people home via public transport.

 

Also will put a crimp in any startup plans in the near future while Covid-19 is still out there. The feds are limited in what they can do to discourage cruise lines from starting up, but clearly they can do this.

During the pandemic this policy makes good sense. I agree the CDC did not say post-pandemic, but some on this board may have interpreted it as such. But it could never be implemented and policed in a post-pandemic environment. 

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2 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

During the pandemic this policy makes good sense. I agree the CDC did not say post-pandemic, but some on this board may have interpreted it as such. But it could never be implemented and policed in a post-pandemic environment. 

 

Like npcl I suspect that this policy is here to stay but it will only apply to ships that return to US ports with COVID cases.

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11 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

During the pandemic this policy makes good sense. I agree the CDC did not say post-pandemic, but some on this board may have interpreted it as such. But it could never be implemented and policed in a post-pandemic environment. 

That is certainly true.

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On 4/5/2020 at 11:58 PM, npcl said:

This was before the change in rules.  Now they cannot fly commercial for any part of their journey.  

Correct.  They are booking flights with only other cruise passengers to hubs and then private cars and drivers directly to their homes.

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18 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Like npcl I suspect that this policy is here to stay but it will only apply to ships that return to US ports with COVID cases.

After the COVID-19 pandemic is over the CDC will remove this order. However, it may introduce some new version that applies to any new outbreak that may occur in future. 

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