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14 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

They, at least in the case of Carnival, do have the money - but it's all borrowed money, mostly at high interest rates because of the risk to lenders.

 

So the easy option is to delay payment for as long as they can get away with it.  You can get the money out of them, as others have said, but only by taking firm and effective action.  Not that difficult - just a little research and perseverance.

It becomes harder for Carnival to maintain the position of saying that delayed refunds from March and April are not now "unduly delayed," IMHO.

 

This is on the basis that they have, and have demonstrated the capacity to make later refunds; have also invested in "automatic" refund/payment processing technology, which they have now rolled out; and have consistently maintained their interpretation of the pandemic timeline to be 60 days, which they have consistently missed, in many cases.

 

What will potentially tip the balance in favour of some sort of action from regulators is if the Oceana refunds, which are not directly ascribed to the pandemic, but are part of a planned commercial decision, are also "unduly delayed." 

 

It appears that the open letter from the CMA has made no difference to the number of customers complaining of delayed refunds on official social media channels.  What is helping them to some extent is the worse behaviour of some other package holiday providers i.e. trying to make it impossible to request a refund.

 

However, the time is nigh for Carnival to speed up, unless they reckon they can tough it out a while longer....🤔

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25 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried using the credit/debit card chargeback route, or the S75 credit card route, or the threat of it, to get the money back?

Yes. A couple of CC companies were processing claims quickly and so the chargeback occurred quicker than the P&O refund, definitely worth pursuing as comes with little hassle. Although, I have seen in one or two cases, this led to an infamous "double-refund."

 

In my case, the CC company accepted the claim against P&O without question, however advised that there was a 28+ day delay in processing (reference plus!).  I got a strange letter through the other week indicating that my claim for a refund had been accepted, even though that particular refund had already been made by P&O.

 

From my experience, P&O don't bat an eyelid when you use this route, and I haven't seen any examples of P&O trying to "claw back" money.  This, as you may already know, is where a chargeback is made, the merchant disputes it, so the refund is removed and the customer then has to pursue one of two different complaint routes.

 

In terms of the outstanding (partial) refund, no joy yet, day 123.  I'll update when I hear (yes I am doing something about this and will update once concluded😉).

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Surprised more people aren't taking this route - it does seem to work.  I got mine some time ago using a different approach, but I'd be using chargeback otherwise (because the banks don't have to pay out - they simply claw it back) or failing that the statutory S75.

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2 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Surprised more people aren't taking this route - it does seem to work.  I got mine some time ago using a different approach, but I'd be using chargeback otherwise (because the banks don't have to pay out - they simply claw it back) or failing that the statutory S75.

I agree.  I think what puts people off is a lack of knowledge and a few "scare stories" earlier in the pandemic that holiday companies would "blacklist" any customer who does this - which of course they cannot do.

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1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried using the credit/debit card chargeback route, or the S75 credit card route, or the threat of it, to get the money back?

 

1 hour ago, No pager thank you said:

Yes. A couple of CC companies were processing claims quickly and so the chargeback occurred quicker than the P&O refund, definitely worth pursuing as comes with little hassle. Although, I have seen in one or two cases, this led to an infamous "double-refund."

 

In my case, the CC company accepted the claim against P&O without question, however advised that there was a 28+ day delay in processing (reference plus!).  I got a strange letter through the other week indicating that my claim for a refund had been accepted, even though that particular refund had already been made by P&O.

 

From my experience, P&O don't bat an eyelid when you use this route, and I haven't seen any examples of P&O trying to "claw back" money.  This, as you may already know, is where a chargeback is made, the merchant disputes it, so the refund is removed and the customer then has to pursue one of two different complaint routes.

 

In terms of the outstanding (partial) refund, no joy yet, day 123.  I'll update when I hear (yes I am doing something about this and will update once concluded😉).

 

With regard to payment of balances: the TA we are using for our worldie no longer accept credit card payments via their e-portal.  On line they state that their portal will only accept bank transfers.  The sceptic in me wonders whether is because of the amount of Sec 75 claims being made against them?

 

I haven't asked them whether they will take credit card balance payments by credit card over the phone.  Will cross that bridge when/if the balance is actually due.

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1 minute ago, Son of Anarchy said:

 

 

With regard to payment of balances: the TA we are using for our worldie no longer accept credit card payments via their e-portal.  On line they state that their portal will only accept bank transfers.  The sceptic in me wonders whether is because of the amount of Sec 75 claims being made against them?

 

I haven't asked them whether they will take credit card balance payments by credit card over the phone.  Will cross that bridge when/if the balance is actually due.

Possibly the case!

 

As you may know the "chargeback" (non statutory) provision is in place if they allow you to use a debit, but not a credit card.  Bank transfer offers no protection beyond what is there from ATOL / ABTA.

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1 minute ago, Son of Anarchy said:

 

 

With regard to payment of balances: the TA we are using for our worldie no longer accept credit card payments via their e-portal.  On line they state that their portal will only accept bank transfers.  The sceptic in me wonders whether is because of the amount of Sec 75 claims being made against them?

 

I haven't asked them whether they will take credit card balance payments by credit card over the phone.  Will cross that bridge when/if the balance is actually due.

Interesting.  If my TA refused to accept credit cards I'd drop them immediately.  Maybe it's just an online thing.

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Just now, Harry Peterson said:

Interesting.  If my TA refused to accept credit cards I'd drop them immediately.  Maybe it's just an online thing.

 

I've already asked PandO if we can transfer the booking to them, still waiting on a reply...

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2 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried using the credit/debit card chargeback route, or the S75 credit card route, or the threat of it, to get the money back?

After waiting 60+ days for a refund from Cunard I wrote to them and told them they had 14 days to refund me and if not I was going to instigate Section 75 through my credit card company. On the 14th day I received a cheque for full refund so it worked but it must have frightened them because they also refunded me again on the 17th day to my credit card account.

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Given that we know it works, I'm amazed at people's reluctance to use it. Hardly any effort required,  and often (as above) just the threat is enough. 

 

Chargeback and S75 claims both cost the company more than the actual refund because of associated charges by the banks, so there's a very real incentive to pay up.

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32 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

 

 

With regard to payment of balances: the TA we are using for our worldie no longer accept credit card payments via their e-portal.  On line they state that their portal will only accept bank transfers.  The sceptic in me wonders whether is because of the amount of Sec 75 claims being made against them?

 

I haven't asked them whether they will take credit card balance payments by credit card over the phone.  Will cross that bridge when/if the balance is actually due.

You may find this interesting... https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6132405/iglu-cruise-refusing-credit-card-payment/p1

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10 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Given that we know it works, I'm amazed at people's reluctance to use it. Hardly any effort required,  and often (as above) just the threat is enough. 

 

Chargeback and S75 claims both cost the company more than the actual refund because of associated charges by the banks, so there's a very real incentive to pay up.

After 3 hours on hold with EasyJet on Day 50 I spoke to an apologetic manager after getting no where with an agent who claimed they could not escalate until 90 days.

I told him I was contacting my bank about a chargeback.

Bank said up to 6 weeks for charge back but sent the online form.

2 days later I got an email from Easy jet saying my money was being put back onto my cc and it was that day.

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3 minutes ago, AnnieC said:

Very interesting!  Wonder if it’s the same agent, Son of Anarchy? 
 

Any company deemed to be at risk will have its card facilities withdrawn by the banks, so all the more reason not to pay by any other means.

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30 minutes ago, AnnieC said:

Very interesting.

I read somewhere that Credit Card companies withheld £ millions of pounds of customers money who booked with Flybe.

I got my chargeback easily from our cc company after Flybe went bust.

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I nearly posted the link a while ago during a discussion about a certain t/a, but decided against to see what happened. All went quiet on that MSE thread at the end of May, so thought the blip (or whatever) was resolved; then SoA's post appeared and rang a bell🤨

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Interesting when you book a Fred Olsen Cruise.

 

The most efficient way to pay your holiday balance is by bank transfer directly to Fred. Olsen Cruise Lines. For your piece of mind, all payments are protected by either our ABTA Bond or by our ATOL Licence. In addition, when you pay your balance by bank transfer straight into our bank account we will as a thank you, enter you into our monthly prize draw one of five £500 prizes. If you are a lucky winner, you will be able to choose from a £500 on board spending credit for your next Fred. Olsen cruise or a £500 future cruise voucher. The On Board Spending Credit can be used towards your on board purchases on your forthcoming cruise, including shore tours, beauty treatments and purchases in the shops, bars and restaurants. If you chose the Future Cruise Voucher, you’ll have 12 months to make your next Fred. Olsen cruise booking and enjoy the special saving. To enter the monthly prize draw, simply make your interim or full balance payment by bank transfer directly into our bank account, using the details below:

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1 hour ago, AnnieC said:

 

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

Very interesting!  Wonder if it’s the same agent, Son of Anarchy? 
 

Any company deemed to be at risk will have its card facilities withdrawn by the banks, so all the more reason not to pay by any other means.

 

Thanks for for the link AnnieC, very interesting indeed.

 

And yes, same TA!

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24 minutes ago, Cruising Nomads said:

Interesting when you book a Fred Olsen Cruise.

 

The most efficient way to pay your holiday balance is by bank transfer directly to Fred. Olsen Cruise Lines. For your piece of mind, all payments are protected by either our ABTA Bond or by our ATOL Licence. In addition, when you pay your balance by bank transfer straight into our bank account we will as a thank you, enter you into our monthly prize draw one of five £500 prizes. If you are a lucky winner, you will be able to choose from a £500 on board spending credit for your next Fred. Olsen cruise or a £500 future cruise voucher. The On Board Spending Credit can be used towards your on board purchases on your forthcoming cruise, including shore tours, beauty treatments and purchases in the shops, bars and restaurants. If you chose the Future Cruise Voucher, you’ll have 12 months to make your next Fred. Olsen cruise booking and enjoy the special saving. To enter the monthly prize draw, simply make your interim or full balance payment by bank transfer directly into our bank account, using the details below:

Efficient for Fred, and cheap.  Dangerous for customers, because it neatly sidesteps all the protection offered by S75, and by card companies under chargeback.

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1 hour ago, Cruising Nomads said:

Interesting when you book a Fred Olsen Cruise.

 

The most efficient way to pay your holiday balance is by bank transfer directly to Fred. Olsen Cruise Lines. For your piece of mind, all payments are protected by either our ABTA Bond or by our ATOL Licence. In addition, when you pay your balance by bank transfer straight into our bank account we will as a thank you, enter you into our monthly prize draw one of five £500 prizes. If you are a lucky winner, you will be able to choose from a £500 on board spending credit for your next Fred. Olsen cruise or a £500 future cruise voucher. The On Board Spending Credit can be used towards your on board purchases on your forthcoming cruise, including shore tours, beauty treatments and purchases in the shops, bars and restaurants. If you chose the Future Cruise Voucher, you’ll have 12 months to make your next Fred. Olsen cruise booking and enjoy the special saving. To enter the monthly prize draw, simply make your interim or full balance payment by bank transfer directly into our bank account, using the details below:

Certainly swings it for me to never consider booking a cruise with Fred Olsen Cruise Lines.

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Hols4

Just about to go down the charge back route when P&O e mailed me to say they were now processing the refunds with a software program instead of manually and speeded the process up. I got my refund 2 days after there email so I am not in the 100 club any more.

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36 minutes ago, Hols4 said:

Hols4

Just about to go down the charge back route when P&O e mailed me to say they were now processing the refunds with a software program instead of manually and speeded the process up. I got my refund 2 days after there email so I am not in the 100 club any more.

Great news you finally have your refund back.👍🍾

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, majortom10 said:

Certainly swings it for me to never consider booking a cruise with Fred Olsen Cruise Lines.

To be frank, at the moment cruise lines  should be offering an incentive to pay on time, irrespective of the means of payment!

 

Hopefully most sensible customers will realise that one's chances in the draw are pretty remote, compared the certainty of statutory protections on a credit card.

 

Some people might pay initial sum on credit card (covering the whole transaction value) and then enter the draw.

 

 

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