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11 minutes ago, AnnieC said:

Yet again, I agree with Harry. This is all very worrying.😄

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Yes, agreeing with Harry is worrying!

Similar views here, but in the Harry vs Moley discourse on Carnivals finances, I have to say that Harry makes more sense.

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5 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

The call center staff are essentially working off a script. I think one-two months ago they were trying to be helpful and escalate matters up the chain for quicker resolution. They did this so often that it defeated the point. Also, the call center staff have had so much flak of customers that their desire to help has sadly diminished. 

 

Oceana was announced as leaving on 6 July. Some people have already had their refunds. My understanding is that, for Oceana refunds and any further changes, efforts are being made to meet the 14 day requirement. 

Yes I agree with your observations on the call centre staff here.  Their willingness to help has sadly diminished, which will impact on customer confidence and the company's reputation. 

 

In fairness, the same staff have been affected by redundancies and there have been a number of reported stories of the call centre staff losing their tether and taking their frustration out on customers.  This I have yet to experience myself.

 

I must confess to having doubts about the timeliness of the Oceana refunds, but do hope that these affected customers are reimbursed mainly within 14 days.

 

Open question: has anyone received an Oceana refund yet?

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6 hours ago, philred said:

cruise refund for our arcadia october cruise recieved this morning 45 days from applying  happy days !!!!!!!!!

They are really in a mess then. You have a refund in 45 days and I have 2 outstanding, one from March!

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10 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

I’m afraid I have to disagree with you there.  Having $7bn, if that’s the figure, of somebody else’s money that had to be borrowed at very high rates of interest, can’t really count.

 

Carnival’s outgoings are huge at the moment, with very little comparatively speaking, coming in by way of cash, and their further borrowing is strictly limited.

 

It’s critical that they minimise cash flowing out, and that’s the main driver.


Agreed. It’s blindingly obvious. I can understand that P&O staff are given a different line to quote though, as it would be extremely damaging (and market sensitive) if they were telling the world that they needed to withhold customers money illegally in order to shore up their cash flow, even though that is what they are doing!

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10 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

 

Similar views here, but in the Harry vs Moley discourse on Carnivals finances, I have to say that Harry makes more sense.


Indeed, although this forum is a lot less entertaining when we all agree with Harry!

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Hopefully anyone with large refunds outstanding (is there anyone?) can feel more relaxed

 

Does this make people feel happier about paying the balance for (eg) early 2021 cruises - knowing they either get their cruise or have a guaranteed refund (sometime or another ...)?

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20 minutes ago, Pine Man said:

Only covers cruises that involve a flight according to The mail today.

Most posters on here have been assuming that all cruises are subject to the package travel legislation, which is why everyone is so upset with the length of time its been taking to get refunds.  If that is correct then this govt guarantee should apply to all

cruises.

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25 minutes ago, mrsgoggins said:

 

I loved your old avatar 😉, and I agree with your assessment of the current situation.

Thanks. Good to know there are other like-minded people in the cruising fraternity. 
 

I’m saving the avatar for later, when we’re trying to get back in again, but obviously on far worse terms.  😞

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3 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Most posters on here have been assuming that all cruises are subject to the package travel legislation, which is why everyone is so upset with the length of time its been taking to get refunds.  If that is correct then this govt guarantee should apply to all

cruises.


I think the reason that everyone is upset is more to do with the fact that, under U.K. law, a failure to provide goods or services should result in a refund within 14 days. Whilst most right minded people would accept that, in these unprecedented times, that might be an unreasonable expectation, 3 or 4 months (as many have been waiting) is taking the proverbial. 

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21 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Most posters on here have been assuming that all cruises are subject to the package travel legislation, which is why everyone is so upset with the length of time its been taking to get refunds.  If that is correct then this govt guarantee should apply to all

cruises.

I agree, John.  But I think on reflection Pine Man is correct about the limit of the scheme.

Edited by Harry Peterson
Changed view
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46 minutes ago, Pine Man said:

Only covers cruises that involve a flight according to The mail today.

I think you’re right, having taken a closer look at this:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/boost-to-passengers-as-government-bolsters-atol-scheme

 

ATOL protection won’t be available on cruises with no flights involved, even though they’re covered by the Package Travel Regulations, and refunds are legally due within 14 days of cancellation by the operator.

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17 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I agree, John.  

I may have read the article incorrectly, but is there not a difference between ABTA (non flight holiday) and ATOL protection (flight holiday)? 

 

The article appears to differentiate between ATOL protection (linked to CAA and Govt underwriting being included) and by omission, ABTA ones not - but they are covered anyway.

 

P&O Cruises are covered by the PTR because of the number of components which are sold as part of a holiday on a cruise ship, explaining why customers have a right to pursue a time bound refund.

 

Conclusion: With respect to refunds, cruise ship passengers are no better or worse off arising from this announcement.  FCCs do not appear to meet the definition of Refund Credit Notes because the entitlement to claim a cash refund expires much before the deadline which would operate on a Refund Credit Note.  

 

It will be interesting to see if P&O respond by allowing customers to claim a cash refund at any point until September next year, or further in to the future.  If not, then this is another (small) reason - lack of flexibility - as to why not to accept a FCC.

Edited by No pager thank you
Typo
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2 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I think you’re right, having taken a closer look at this:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/boost-to-passengers-as-government-bolsters-atol-scheme

 

ATOL protection won’t be available on cruises with no flights involved, even though they’re covered by the Package Travel Regulations, and refunds are legally due within 14 days of cancellation by the operator.

Beat me to it😀

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Just checked bank account and the refund for the deposit on our cancelled October Arcadia cruise was received yesterday. I hope those of you still waiting for refunds have similarly good news soon.

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29 minutes ago, SeaJane said:

Just checked bank account and the refund for the deposit on our cancelled October Arcadia cruise was received yesterday. I hope those of you still waiting for refunds have similarly good news soon.

👍 Good news.

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1 hour ago, SeaJane said:

Just checked bank account and the refund for the deposit on our cancelled October Arcadia cruise was received yesterday. I hope those of you still waiting for refunds have similarly good news soon.

Our September deposit is back today as well, must have been a busy week in finance.
 

We still have sundries from March outstanding so they are not doing this by the date of application as the message on the phone line indicates.

 

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