Cruise Lines Begin Developing Future Protocols

[atexsix]

6 hours ago, Vict0riann said:

 

I agree.  It will be difficult to get a doctor's certificate, anyway.  Maybe something like a certificate that vaccinations are up to date would be possible.

 

I also agree.  There's something about this that rubs me, I know that the "old normal" will never exist again and the world will need to adapt, but I'll have to think about this one.  Because for one thing, there's privacy questions, how will the cruise lines ensure people's information is kept safe?  A doc's certificate would be fine for current stuff, but before coronavirus small islands were asking for proof of measles vaccinations from like 50 years ago....I mean really?  How would that be possible when my doctor from that time has long since gone to his reward?  I don't see this type of plan working.  Eventually people will decide cruising with a thousands hoops to jump through is not worth it, and gravitate toward something else.

 

5 hours ago, kira5 said:

It seems to be too much risk of being left standing on the dock watching the ship sail away because your temperature is elevated for some reason.   A vacation with the smell of lysol wafting about everywhere.    The number of passengers would need to be halved to accommodate the distancing  -- there go all the mid-range passengers.   Not enough rich people for all the

ships now doing cruises.  Will all inclusive resorts and vacation rentals and Bed and Breakfasts be as stringent?   They may see a resurgence in clients.

 

I'm with you.  I suppose the only solution would be to insure the trip heavily and have a Plan B.  My comments above are in line with yours, land based vacations or flying to the islands will become far more attractive and less of a headache.

Edited April 8, 2020 by atexsix

[jeda4137]

Over 70 only for medical certificate???

ALL passengers should have to have medical certificate including children - otherwise discrimination!!

Not only will Doctors be reluctant to sign something like that- if they do there will be a charge for that service.

As we know children can be little germ factories!!

Just much easier to stay on land!!

 

[chengkp75]

17 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

One thing that I noticed on the Genting Cruise Lines announcement is that they will NOT recirculate air, not even in common areas.  CCL ships recirculate air in common areas and retrofitting them to this standard would be a challenging proposition, not impossible but quite costly.

Even using heat recovery (or in this case, "cold" recovery) technology, this will increase fuel costs dramatically.

[Roz]

12 hours ago, Janet76 said:

Labor intensive but workers will be paid the same. 

 

And the same number of workers.

[TYinPalmSprings]

I am 71 but in great physical shape, exercise, do not smoke, do not drink alcohol, and have a low BMI.   My doctor says that  due to liability issues his insurance will not allow him to sign the required document for anyone, of any age. Just after my 70th birthday, I piloted a 1930's era Stearman P-17 bi-plane, but, oops, I have an ailment for life kept in check with meds for the rest of my life, so sadly,  I would not be allowed to get on a ship anyway evenif I could get my doctor to sign the document..  Although there is a high percentage of medical issues associated with the obese, like diabetes and heart problems that make them more prone to acquiring a severe case of the COVID-19 virus , there is no requirement to refuse passage to those obese,  or worse, morbidly obese, people regardless of their ages. The impact of the disease to smokers and vapers is much more severe than the general public, not to mention the health effects of smoke to other passengers, but that is not an issue here either. And, yeah, those uncontrolled small children who cannot be counted to avoid handling buffet food, control their sneezing, coughing, and drooling place everyone at risk. No rules against them. Say, unless they want to openly discriminate, they should consider ALL issues and handle them with the same logic.

Edited April 8, 2020 by TYinPalmSprings

[voyageur9]

No one-size fits all policy will ever satisfy everyone. There will always be outliers who, perhaps justly, feel the policy discriminates against them. Same as insurance. Young males pay significantly higher premiums because young male drivers (in aggregate) cause far more deaths, injuries and property damage than other demographic segments. It's a commercial transaction. Going on a cruise is not a constitutionally-protected activity so certain types of commercial discrimination will be lawful. So, if a cruise line decides it wants nothing to do with children (i.e. Virgin -- not for health reasons) or over-70s or those without a medical certificate, it may take a financial hit from losing some customers but doing so isn't illegal. Some may regard that as unfair. They can take their money elsewhere. Others may regard the absence of certain demographics as cruise enhancing. 

Evaluating every potential customer individually isn't commercially viable, any more so that an auto insurer opting to give individualized premiums to the 23-year-old male because he can prove he's safer/fitter/whatever than the norm.

[BJzink]

I certainly hope that all cruise lines eliminate totally the "self-serve" food stations.  The constant handling of utensils by hundreds of passengers is a menu for disaster, as is the lack of "sneeze guards" on some buffets on other ships.  The "Taco Bar", which is loved by HAL passengers is a total no-no for the future.  Ship life needs to change which probably will result in extra staff, therefore higher fees.

[Sea42]

Changed Opinion

Edited April 8, 2020 by Sea42
Changed Opinion

[AV8rix]

1 hour ago, TYinPalmSprings said:

 Just after my 70th birthday, I piloted a 1930's era Stearman P-17 bi-plane.....

Umm, off-topic but that would be a PT-17 (primary trainer).  Stearmans were emphatically NOT pursuit planes!  But they certainly are fun -- although a snap roll in one is a timed maneuver 😉.

 

OK, we now return you to the original thread topic.

 

[voyageur9]

Smallpox was eradicated in the late 1970s, through vaccination. Many countries, including the United States in some instances, require proof of various vaccinations prior to issuing visas and/or permitting entry. So, domestically, do many school systems. Herd immunity is the single best safeguard against epidemics. Recent lethal outbreaks of measles have resulted from parents declining to protect their children.  There's nothing new nor unusual about nations or other levels of government  requiring vaccines (when available) against new or recurrent viral or other disease. It's basic public health. 

[iancal]

We take our International Certificate of Vaccinations when we travel to certain countries. It is a small yellow card that lists the vaccinations that we have both had and dates.  It is similar in size to an International Driving Permit.  This is required to enter some countries.  Not a big issue but it does force one to make certain that jabs are up to date.

 

I can see a time when the cruise lines will insist on something similar or identical.

Edited April 8, 2020 by iancal

[TYinPalmSprings]

55 minutes ago, Av8rix said:

Umm, off-topic but that would be a PT-17 (primary trainer).  Stearmans were emphatically NOT pursuit planes!  But they certainly are fun -- although a snap roll in one is a timed maneuver 😉.

 

OK, we now return you to the original thread topic.

 

Yeah, thx. I noticed my typo and tried to go in and correct it, but it told me it was too late. It was a training aircraft with a wooden rudder and wings that were more like toilet paper, but the open cockpit added to the adventure. 

[ljones]

I was on Oceania for 31 days - until March 6th.  All food in the buffet is served - even yogurt in individual containers.  Initially I thought that was a "bit much" - but we were tested (as was the crew) at the last 4 ports for fever.  Everyone passed every time.  

 

Often when at embarkation, I've heard coughing & sneezing...why do sick people travel?  Not to loose their "investment" in the trip.  Airlines & cruiselines need new policies that allow anyone to get a Credit for Future use.  There also need to be prior notice that if anyone presents sick, they will be denied boarding.  I am sure there are others here who could come up with ideas on how to keep the credit idea from being abused - but I know I am not the only one who was well aware that sick people were boarding virtually every flight and cruise I've taken.  I forget the Country now, but there was a machine that automatically noted your temperature - if outside the norm - simply as you walked past to disembark for the day.  

[dogo88]

If these procedures get strictly enforced across all cruise lines, they better be prepared to lose a good portion of their customers. Older folks cruise. They have the time and money. Younger folks aren't going to pick up the slack unless they build ships that look like Coney Island Amusement parks. 

Heck, even before the Wuhan Flu, you had passengers coming onboard who didn't feel all that good, but due to cruise line rules, at the time, if you felt sick, and voluntary or otherwise, did not go, it was on your dime, unless you had specific insurance to cover it. 

[USN59-79]

2 hours ago, voyageur9 said:

No one-size fits all policy will ever satisfy everyone. There will always be outliers who, perhaps justly, feel the policy discriminates against them. Same as insurance. Young males pay significantly higher premiums because young male drivers (in aggregate) cause far more deaths, injuries and property damage than other demographic segments. It's a commercial transaction. Going on a cruise is not a constitutionally-protected activity so certain types of commercial discrimination will be lawful. So, if a cruise line decides it wants nothing to do with children (i.e. Virgin -- not for health reasons) or over-70s or those without a medical certificate, it may take a financial hit from losing some customers but doing so isn't illegal. Some may regard that as unfair. They can take their money elsewhere. Others may regard the absence of certain demographics as cruise enhancing. 

Evaluating every potential customer individually isn't commercially viable, any more so that an auto insurer opting to give individualized premiums to the 23-year-old male because he can prove he's safer/fitter/whatever than the norm.

I think it is a little more than unfair when a cruise line keeps the cash a customer has paid for a cruise that is cancelled by the cruise line, saying that they will provide a future cruise credit instead.  Then they change the rules not allowing that customer to cruise because of his age so the future credit is now worthless.  I would call that fraud.

[voyageur9]

5 minutes ago, USN59-79 said:

I think it is a little more than unfair when a cruise line keeps the cash a customer has paid for a cruise that is cancelled by the cruise line, saying that they will provide a future cruise credit instead.  Then they change the rules not allowing that customer to cruise because of his age so the future credit is now worthless.  I would call that fraud.

Maybe, ... if it's a regulatory or contractual requirement that the passenger meet certain medical or ambulatory or other health standards to protect themselves and others and that individual fails to meet those regulatory or contractual requirements at the time of boarding then he/she is in breach and can't expect compensation. But the requirements need to be unambiguous and would-be passengers must know them with specificity in advance. Just like you can get denied entry into a country if you aren't properly vaccinated. If you fail, you pay your own flight home. Those in doubt, need insurance.

[VMax1700]

52 minutes ago, ljones said:

Often when at embarkation, I've heard coughing & sneezing

Not necessarily the sign of a cold or even sickness.  When we fly to Florida to embark on a Caribbean cruise, for the first few days we cough and sneeze occasionally.  We get the cough from the air conditioning (don't need it in Ireland!) and the sneezing from the dust in the air (don't have that in Ireland either!).

[AncientWanderer]

I hope people with serious conditions can continue to take their expensive "bucket list" trips.  We've met many such people over the years.  Cruises aren't typically strenuous.  These are just weird times.

[ljones]

VMax - I didn't mean to imply that everyone who coughs or sneezes is ill but rather that some may be and why not check for fever at the least.  I actually have coughing attacks, related to nothing I can identify & people think I am close to death as I also may gasp for air!  My main point was, if airlines and cruiselines would make it less a financial loss, people who are sick & know it, would hopefully be more likely to cancel & rebook...  

Edited April 8, 2020 by ljones

[bajakiter]

9 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

I hope people with serious conditions can continue to take their expensive "bucket list" trips.  We've met many such people over the years.  Cruises aren't typically strenuous.  These are just weird times.

Yes, some of the nicest people we have met cruising have been in their 90's!

It is difficult for us to come to terms with the thought that at 71, we are now aging out of cruising.

Good grief, we were just 40 yesterday!

Even before covid-19, HAL was definitely trying to appeal to a younger demographic. We are guessing this will speed up the process. Even if they don't say so directly, there may be subtle ways of discouraging us from cruising in the future.

 

[sevenseasnomad]

Okay, say a passenger gets a clean bill of health prior to embarkation and at embarkation.  Can the cruise lines guarantee that he/she continues to be healthy/infection-free throughout the cruise?  No.  The point of cruising, in most cases, is to explore foreign ports.  Could a new/old illness/virus/bacteria be lurking in those ports?  Absolutely.  It only takes one person, whether a passenger/crew member, to bring contagion aboard.  Then, all hell breaks loose.  All the health requirements/precautions in the world may not help in a situation like that.  It's a whole new world out there because we're all more aware now.  

 

After the 1919 pandemic, how did the world get back to normal?  What was the normal prior to that pandemic?  We've advanced scientifically by leaps and bounds since then, and I would hope any new rules implemented by a cruise line would reflect modern advances and not be based on fear.  Unfortunately, most CEOs/boards are currently operating on panic.  I can understand their fears, but don't discriminate against the most loyal passengers, in HAL's case, seniors.  

 

As for testing passengers at the pier, let's test everybody because children often carry COVID-19 asymptomatically.  About the medical letter attesting to a person's fitness for travel, some doctors may be willing to write such a letter; most would shrink from the responsibility, I believe.   

[mkkao924]

I think many people mix the statistical fact with their feelings.

 

Anybody screaming age discrimination should look at their local DMV and see if the seniors have different requirement of renewing driver license.

 

This is not discrimination, it's simply a risk management for the lines.

[SilvertoGold]

Risk management for sure.  But as noted above by sevenseasnomad, no ship can be sure 100% of pax and crew are embarking uninfected now and for quite a while.  May, June, July?  I think not.

 

So, cruise lines are choosing between going under or sailing with the possibility of being the new Zaandam: seemed OK, should have been OK, but........  

 

A hard call.  How many crew and pax want to risk it?

[KirkNC]

7 minutes ago, mkkao924 said:

I think many people mix the statistical fact with their feelings.

 

Anybody screaming age discrimination should look at their local DMV and see if the seniors have different requirement of renewing driver license.

 

This is not discrimination, it's simply a risk management for the lines.

Plus this is not anything new, expedition ships have used medical screening questionnaires for years.  It’s not discriminatory either if it is done for passenger and crew safety.  I can tell you on the world cruise there were dozens of people completely unable to take care of themselves.  One man wore his pajamas all day, some others were on oxygen and at least one lady could not feed herself.  It’s great that they wanted to see the world but in an emergency they would not even make it to the life boat on their own.

[npcl]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Even using heat recovery (or in this case, "cold" recovery) technology, this will increase fuel costs dramatically.

Drive the cost up and probably not have that good of results. Better to add filters but keep the fuel efficiency.

 

Unfortunately it does nothing to help the close contact transfer (most of it) on a cruise ship.  Would rather see the money spent on spreading out the crew quarters.  Maybe convert some inside cabin space for crew