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CDC 100 Day No Sail Order


PhillyFan33579
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4 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I think it is safe to say the chances of this virus spreading are significantly higher when people spend days to weeks together on a cruise ship, as opposed to spending minutes to hours together on other means of transportation. 

 

I'm not sure I agree (keep in mind I'm a layman, I have no background in medicine/epidemiology so I'm probably underthinking this).  Take patient X, he goes on a cruise unknowingly sick.  Throughout the course of 7 days he crosses paths with many people, no doubt, but the number of people he comes in contact with is limited to however many are on the ship....let's say 4,000 plus a few in ports.  But they also see many of these people many times over....from all reports (I've not yet cruised....someday, maybe, if we're ever allowed to leave our houses) room stewards, bar staff, and dining room servers all recognize cruisers.  These people could be key in saying "Mr. Smith, you seem to be coughing a lot more today than yesterday, why don't you visit the clinic just in case".

 

Patient Y, also unknowingly sick, decides to take a week long land trip.  He flies from LA to Orlando/Disney World with a 3 hour layover in Chicago.  Between his flights, buses, multiple theme parks, hotels, restaurants, etc I'd venture to say he has crossed paths with FAR more than 4-5,000 people.  Also keep in mind that all those various places have a variety of cleaning standards (while cruises have 1 level of standards, which in theory should be quite high).  Also, most of the people patient Y comes in contact with are for short visits, they wouldn't necessarily notice if he was coughing a lot or looked ill and if they did notice would they/could they do anything?

 

Now the difference is that when patient Y gets sicker the hospital is accessible whereas patient X is stuck in the middle of the ocean.  That is the part that should be the focus IMO.  How to effectively quarantine these people and, if necessary, get them off the ship to get the care they need.

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Is this 100-day stoppage retroactive back to April 9th or starting the day this 100-day extension was announced? What is the last day of this 100-day extension?

 

My niece and her family are sailing on the Horizon on June 27th and I was wondering if her cruise is safe (for now)? My wife and I sail on the Horizon on October 3rd and we're both thinking it, too, will be cancelled.

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This is CCL's statement regarding the CDC's 100 day ban on cruises issued on Thursday:

 

We are aware of the CDC notice published on Thursday. We are evaluating those recommendations and continuing our discussions with industry and government officials. Our existing pause in operations remains in effect through May 11, 2020.

Should our plans change, we will notify guests and travel agents and share information on Carnival.com. We appreciate your patience and remain committed to the health and safety of our guests, crew and communities we serve.”

This statement makes it seem as if it's just a casual suggestion that the government is making. Kind of like, "We suggest that chocolate melting cake be served on every sailing..."  It's not a suggestion, as far as I can see!

 
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The order is not an absolute 100 days it is an OR situation

From the order
"This Order shall continue in operation until the earliest of three situations. First, the expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency.  Second, the CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations.  Or third, 100 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register."

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0409-modifications-extension-no-sail-ships.html

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1 hour ago, jordanaire said:

Is this 100-day stoppage retroactive back to April 9th or starting the day this 100-day extension was announced? What is the last day of this 100-day extension?

 

My niece and her family are sailing on the Horizon on June 27th and I was wondering if her cruise is safe (for now)? My wife and I sail on the Horizon on October 3rd and we're both thinking it, too, will be cancelled.

I believe around July 19, 2020.

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3 hours ago, eileen2664 said:

 

I'm not sure I agree (keep in mind I'm a layman, I have no background in medicine/epidemiology so I'm probably underthinking this).  Take patient X, he goes on a cruise unknowingly sick.  Throughout the course of 7 days he crosses paths with many people, no doubt, but the number of people he comes in contact with is limited to however many are on the ship....let's say 4,000 plus a few in ports.  But they also see many of these people many times over....from all reports (I've not yet cruised....someday, maybe, if we're ever allowed to leave our houses) room stewards, bar staff, and dining room servers all recognize cruisers.  These people could be key in saying "Mr. Smith, you seem to be coughing a lot more today than yesterday, why don't you visit the clinic just in case".

 

Patient Y, also unknowingly sick, decides to take a week long land trip.  He flies from LA to Orlando/Disney World with a 3 hour layover in Chicago.  Between his flights, buses, multiple theme parks, hotels, restaurants, etc I'd venture to say he has crossed paths with FAR more than 4-5,000 people.  Also keep in mind that all those various places have a variety of cleaning standards (while cruises have 1 level of standards, which in theory should be quite high).  Also, most of the people patient Y comes in contact with are for short visits, they wouldn't necessarily notice if he was coughing a lot or looked ill and if they did notice would they/could they do anything?

 

Now the difference is that when patient Y gets sicker the hospital is accessible whereas patient X is stuck in the middle of the ocean.  That is the part that should be the focus IMO.  How to effectively quarantine these people and, if necessary, get them off the ship to get the care they need.

Interesting analysis, I doubt there are any epidemiologists or infectious disease specialist here (but one never knows), but at any rate, your opinion counts as much as any other.  Before we get into the knitty gritty, let me first say, when the time is right for (and the rest of the world) try cruising, it has hooked most here, and in a big way.  The only comment I would make in reference to your post is, there are no absolutes and there are always risks involved in anything and most definitely here.  As part of the mitigation pan (assuming this here, as we have not seen it) will be how to take care of and ensure the correct handling of sick cruisers.  If the cruise line is willing, and their plan is accepted by the CDC, and the cruiser understands these risks, then it all works.  

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Carnival and the other cruise lines will cancel cruise for the next few months but this will have a devastating impact on the cruise industry. Carnival's Princess Brand who had the most inflections maybe shut down and the ships docked, renamed, or sold for pennies on the dollar. Older ships may off be docked or sold off. Once cruises are allowed to start there will be some good prices to try to fill some ships but in the long run cheap and abundant cruises are gone.

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2 minutes ago, Purvis1231 said:

Carnival and the other cruise lines will cancel cruise for the next few months but this will have a devastating impact on the cruise industry. Carnival's Princess Brand who had the most inflections maybe shut down and the ships docked, renamed, or sold for pennies on the dollar. Older ships may off be docked or sold off. Once cruises are allowed to start there will be some good prices to try to fill some ships but in the long run cheap and abundant cruises are gone.

Nope.  The Splendor fire and Triumph issues resulted in neither.  

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5 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Nope.  The Splendor fire and Triumph issues resulted in neither.  

I hope cruising comes back like before but I do not remember anyone perishing during the Splendor nor the Triumph's fire. Unfortunately, people have died on cruise ships and other once returning to port. 

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6 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:


Personally I wouldn’t fly on an airplane or cruise on a ship right now. However, the reason the cruise industry is being singled out in my opinion is because there have been several ships that have had COVID-19 breakouts to include multiple deaths. On the other hand I have not heard of one person dying from this virus while physically on an airplane, train, bus, subway, etc.  I think it is safe to say the chances of this virus spreading are significantly higher when people spend days to weeks together on a cruise ship, as opposed to spending minutes to hours together on other means of transportation. 

As we surpass 20,000 deaths from this horrid beast (just in this country), it seems to me the only deaths singles out are on cruise ships.  I think you are implying that the cruise lines are at fault.  We know the world turned away from cruisers who were deathly ill because they were on 4 ships (to the best of my ability to check) and to be honest it started there.  The rest of the cases, some at least 18,000 plus came from somewhere else.   Most certainly as we look back across the country and the world, exponentially more came from sick people on aircraft from Wuhan to many places and dominos from Europe to New York.  There is your link.  

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In the minds of many cruise ships are getting blamed for this outbreak never mind the tens of thousands of people who flew out of Wuhan in December and January. Remember certain people have been trying to stop cruising for years and this is a convenient to aid in this.  

 

Personally, since I am in a high risk group as a cancer survivor I will want to wait after a few cruise sail before I go back.

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typo
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57 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

...We know the world turned away from cruisers who were deathly ill because they were on 4 ships (to the best of my ability to check) and to be honest it started there...

 

I don't disagree with your other comments but there have been far more than 4 ships affected by COVID.  Here is a list from the CDC only counting US ports, not others like the Diamond, Coral, or Ruby Princess which were international.

 

Cruise Ships Affected by COVID-19
These are cruise ships that had voyages with US ports, which are under US CDC jurisdiction. International voyages without US ports of call are not under CDC jurisdiction and not included.

Cruise Ships Affected by COVID-19
Ship name    Voyage Start Date    Voyage End Date
Carnival Imagination    5-Mar    8-Mar
Carnival Valor    29-Feb    5-Mar
Carnival Valor    5-Mar    9-Mar
Carnival Valor    9-Mar    14-Mar
Carnival Vista    15-Feb    22-Feb
Carnival Vista    29-Feb    7-Mar
Celebrity Infinity    5-Mar    9-Mar
Celebrity Eclipse*    2-Mar    30-Mar
Celebrity Reflection    13-Mar    17-Mar
Celebrity Summit    29-Feb    7-Mar
Crown Princess    6-Mar    16-Mar
Disney Wonder    28-Feb    2-Mar
Disney Wonder*    6-Mar    20-Mar
Grand Princess    11-Feb    21-Feb
Grand Princess*    21-Feb    7-Mar
MSC Meraviglia    1-Mar    8-Mar
Norwegian Bliss*    1-Mar    8-Mar
Norwegian Bliss    8-Mar    15-Mar
Norwegian Breakaway    29-Feb    7-Mar
Norwegian Breakaway*    7-Mar    14-Mar
Norwegian Pride of America*    29-Feb    7-Mar
Oceania Riviera*    26-Feb    11-Mar
RCCL Explorer of Seas    8-Mar    15-Mar
RCCL Liberty of the Seas*    15-Mar    29-Mar
RCCL Majesty of the Seas*    29-Feb    7-Mar
RCCL Oasis of the Seas*    8-Mar    15-Mar
RCCL Symphony of the Seas*    7-Mar    14-Mar

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/what-cdc-is-doing.html

 

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36 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

I don't disagree with your other comments but there have been far more than 4 ships affected by COVID.  Here is a list from the CDC only counting US ports, not others like the Diamond, Coral, or Ruby Princess which were international.

 

Cruise Ships Affected by COVID-19
These are cruise ships that had voyages with US ports, which are under US CDC jurisdiction. International voyages without US ports of call are not under CDC jurisdiction and not included.

Cruise Ships Affected by COVID-19
Ship name    Voyage Start Date    Voyage End Date
Carnival Imagination    5-Mar    8-Mar
Carnival Valor    29-Feb    5-Mar
Carnival Valor    5-Mar    9-Mar
Carnival Valor    9-Mar    14-Mar
Carnival Vista    15-Feb    22-Feb
Carnival Vista    29-Feb    7-Mar
Celebrity Infinity    5-Mar    9-Mar
Celebrity Eclipse*    2-Mar    30-Mar
Celebrity Reflection    13-Mar    17-Mar
Celebrity Summit    29-Feb    7-Mar
Crown Princess    6-Mar    16-Mar
Disney Wonder    28-Feb    2-Mar
Disney Wonder*    6-Mar    20-Mar
Grand Princess    11-Feb    21-Feb
Grand Princess*    21-Feb    7-Mar
MSC Meraviglia    1-Mar    8-Mar
Norwegian Bliss*    1-Mar    8-Mar
Norwegian Bliss    8-Mar    15-Mar
Norwegian Breakaway    29-Feb    7-Mar
Norwegian Breakaway*    7-Mar    14-Mar
Norwegian Pride of America*    29-Feb    7-Mar
Oceania Riviera*    26-Feb    11-Mar
RCCL Explorer of Seas    8-Mar    15-Mar
RCCL Liberty of the Seas*    15-Mar    29-Mar
RCCL Majesty of the Seas*    29-Feb    7-Mar
RCCL Oasis of the Seas*    8-Mar    15-Mar
RCCL Symphony of the Seas*    7-Mar    14-Mar

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/cruise-ship/what-cdc-is-doing.html

 

Fair point, There is no denying that the virus knows no boundaries.  Are all the ships listed 100% conclusive the virus started with them, or that someone on the ship ended up sick?

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Infected people had to have brought the virus on the cruise ships since the virus couldn't have started on the ships.  It spread because of international travel. I read that the first cases in California were from international travel from China and the cases in New York were from international travel from Europe.

"The new coronavirus began spreading in New York weeks before the first confirmed case and came to the area via travelers from Europe, not China, new research suggests.

Two separate teams of scientists studying the genetics of the SARS-CoV-2 virus in the region came to similar conclusions: People were spreading the virus in New York as early as late January, before more widespread testing began, and it came mostly from Europe, not Asia.
We know with certainty that these were coming from European strains," Adriana Heguy, director of the Genome Technology Center at NYU Langone Health, told USA TODAY."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/09/new-york-coronavirus-cases-spread-months-came-europe-study/5120590002/

 

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3 hours ago, Purvis1231 said:

I hope cruising comes back like before but I do not remember anyone perishing during the Splendor nor the Triumph's fire. Unfortunately, people have died on cruise ships and other once returning to port. 

People die on cruise ships every week, usually more than one person on 30 plus days cruise.  I think it the idea of being stuck at sea that concerns people and that is what happened on both the Splendor and Triumph.  

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35 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Fair point, There is no denying that the virus knows no boundaries.  Are all the ships listed 100% conclusive the virus started with them, or that someone on the ship ended up sick?

There is growing evidence that the virus was on the west coast in January thus cruisers passing thru would have been exposed.  

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30 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Fair point, There is no denying that the virus knows no boundaries.  Are all the ships listed 100% conclusive the virus started with them, or that someone on the ship ended up sick?

The ones with the star had passengers with Covoid that had symptoms during the cruise. All the others had passengers who developed Covoid within 14 days after debarkation. They note that they could have contracted the virus during or after the cruise, wonder why they didn’t note the ones with symptoms could have been infected before the cruise?

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2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

As we surpass 20,000 deaths from this horrid beast (just in this country), it seems to me the only deaths singles out are on cruise ships.  I think you are implying that the cruise lines are at fault.  We know the world turned away from cruisers who were deathly ill because they were on 4 ships (to the best of my ability to check) and to be honest it started there.  The rest of the cases, some at least 18,000 plus came from somewhere else.   Most certainly as we look back across the country and the world, exponentially more came from sick people on aircraft from Wuhan to many places and dominos from Europe to New York.  There is your link.  


I don’t believe the cruise lines are to blame at all. I just think they have become a convenient target for both the media and the CDC. I don’t think anyone will disagree that international travel was how this virus spread around the world.  

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55 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

Infected people had to have brought the virus on the cruise ships since the virus couldn't have started on the ships.  It spread because of international travel. I read that the first cases in California were from international travel from China and the cases in New York were from international travel from Europe.

"The new coronavirus began spreading in New York weeks before the first confirmed case and came to the area via travelers from Europe, not China, new research suggests.

Two separate teams of scientists studying the genetics of the SARS-CoV-2 virus in the region came to similar conclusions: People were spreading the virus in New York as early as late January, before more widespread testing began, and it came mostly from Europe, not Asia.
We know with certainty that these were coming from European strains," Adriana Heguy, director of the Genome Technology Center at NYU Langone Health, told USA TODAY."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/09/new-york-coronavirus-cases-spread-months-came-europe-study/5120590002/

 

So, did you see any airlines being scrutinized?  Listen I get that cruise ships are a good place to multiply.  I also understand that everyone is trying to control and mitigate.  Cruise lines are fighting two wars here.  

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30 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:


I don’t believe the cruise lines are to blame at all. I just think they have become a convenient target for both the media and the CDC. I don’t think anyone will disagree that international travel was how this virus spread around the world.  

Fair enough

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52 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

There is growing evidence that the virus was on the west coast in January thus cruisers passing thru would have been exposed.  

There is a ton more evidence that air travel from Wuhan to US until stopped, then italy, and Spain and Iran and then thru these. To the US.  If exposure was cruisers to the west coast, it would have been contained or mitigated.  

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11 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

So, did you see any airlines being scrutinized?  Listen I get that cruise ships are a good place to multiply.  I also understand that everyone is trying to control and mitigate.  Cruise lines are fighting two wars here.  


While I was on my cruise in March, I read about a TSA agent at the Orlando airport testing positive.  I was a bit nervous about that because I had to fly home through that airport.  Then I found out an employee at the Atlanta airport had tested positive and that was the airport that I went through on the way to my cruise.  When I got home, I self-quarantined for 14 days just so I wouldn't accidentally spread anything had I picked up the virus.  All was well, thankfully.  Anyway, the airports were hot spots.

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