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CDC April 9 Order for Cruise Ships


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13 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Yes, I agree.  I can understand the need under our current circumstances but it seems like a monumental task for the industry.  Would not be surprised if many/most ships simply move away from US waters...  but where will the go ???

 

Yes, where would they go??  I don't think anybody wants them to pull into their port for quite some time.  

Yet, even after this order, I don't see any announcements from any of the cruise lines.  They must be scrambling to find a solution ... not really sure if there is one, though.  The one thing they should do is pull all of those sailings that they know need to be canceled.  I don't think anyone would book one at this time but it is deceptive at best.    

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11 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

A good idea for the future.... end turn around day... it stays over night, no passengers

 

then it gives the crew time to clean, restock and possibly a good nights sleep...

 

before re boarding.... yes it would end 2b2 and short cruises under 7 nights....

 

Just a thought Don

In the 1960s when Matson Lines ran South Pacific cruises with Mariposa and Monterey (US flagged), the end point of each cruise was San Francisco. Passengers who had boarded in Australia for the full cruise disembarked and stayed in a hotel in San Francisco for two nights, allowing a full day to clean and restock the ship. I think something like that model will be adopted. A full day will be given over to cleaning. Back-to-back passengers would stay ashore in a hotel.  

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What is the business model for profit? How much did this cost Princess so far? How much do they have to pay for all the new builds recently and all their vendors and workers without any revenue. They still have expenses and they have no revenue. The new regulations for prevention will be extremely expensive in cleaning products procured and man hours using those products that were never part of the business model man hours required. The Cruise lines will have to take on a huge expense for implementing this new way. The restriction to operate now is going to make the dates for crusing to open again how far away? Another 100 days will bring us to August.  How long can a company pay expenses for bank notes, payroll, operating idle ships daily? How many of the crew will need to find new employment in their home countries while this goes on? How many trained and ready crew will be able to come back and perform? The idle time will increase alcohol intake and emotional stress where a person no longer want sot come back to working on a cruise ship? I have so many questions  and so many variables. Would you want your husband or wife to go back to the cruise line industry for work with children at home? 

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11 hours ago, npcl said:

One other note apparently this was published in the Federal Register on 3/24.  So that is the start of the 100 day period.

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/03/24/2020-06166/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation

 

If you read the PDF in the FR document you linked above you can see that it is the original order.  The revised order contains different language and has not been published as of today.  The clock has not started yet.

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5 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

If you read the PDF in the FR document you linked above you can see that it is the original order.  The revised order contains different language and has not been published as of today.  The clock has not started yet.

Actually, the new PDF was published on FR but withdrawn.  The new pdf is on the CDC site.https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/index.html

 

 

Edited by cltnccruisers
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3 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

And, the same pdf is still linked on the page you referenced.

 

3 hours ago, cltnccruisers said:

A little light reading.  Thank you.  Still have to wonder why it was withdrawn from the Federal Register.

 

I don't know the reason why it was withdrawn but the 4/9 PDF contained typos, for instance "Celebrity Coral Princess", so it may be in editing.  The CDC website still shows the verbiage below, which they could have withdrawn as well but did not, so the CDC still stands by that.  IMO a slightly modified PDF will be issued in the near future.

 

"On April 9, 2020, CDC renewed the No Sail Order and Other Measures Related to Operations Order signed by the CDC Director on March 14, 2020—subject to the modifications and additional stipulated conditions as set forth in this Order. This Order shall continue in operation until the earliest of (1) the expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency; (2) the CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations; or (3) 100 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register."

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4 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

 

I don't know the reason why it was withdrawn but the 4/9 PDF contained typos, for instance "Celebrity Coral Princess", so it may be in editing.  The CDC website still shows the verbiage below, which they could have withdrawn as well but did not, so the CDC still stands by that.  IMO a slightly modified PDF will be issued in the near future.

 

"On April 9, 2020, CDC renewed the No Sail Order and Other Measures Related to Operations Order signed by the CDC Director on March 14, 2020—subject to the modifications and additional stipulated conditions as set forth in this Order. This Order shall continue in operation until the earliest of (1) the expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency; (2) the CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations; or (3) 100 days from the date of publication in the Federal Register."

That's a reasonable explanation.   After all, who among us hasn't hit <enter> followed quickly by "Oops!" ?

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I know that our host doesn't want to discuss the public safety aspect of these orders, but go to page 6 of the pdf and read the points at the bottom of the page regarding coordination with federal, state and local health authorities. Local preparedness in pot cities is the part of this that is being overlooked, especially the variation of capability levels between ports.

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21 minutes ago, FiredogCruiser said:

I know that our host doesn't want to discuss the public safety aspect of these orders.

 

Is that true?  Why wouldn't the host want to discuss the public safety aspect of cruising?

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1 hour ago, ahl said:

In the 1960s when Matson Lines ran South Pacific cruises with Mariposa and Monterey (US flagged), the end point of each cruise was San Francisco. Passengers who had boarded in Australia for the full cruise disembarked and stayed in a hotel in San Francisco for two nights, allowing a full day to clean and restock the ship. I think something like that model will be adopted. A full day will be given over to cleaning. Back-to-back passengers would stay ashore in a hotel.  

 

The hard surfaces on the ship ... they can sanitize with Virox.

 

I don't think there is any method to sanitize soft goods.

 

That is my reluctance to stay in a hotel in the short term future ... I don't want to

be using a coronavirus teabag (pillow) from the last occupant.

 

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20 minutes ago, Roberto256 said:

 

The hard surfaces on the ship ... they can sanitize with Virox.

 

I don't think there is any method to sanitize soft goods.

 

That is my reluctance to stay in a hotel in the short term future ... I don't want to

be using a coronavirus teabag (pillow) from the last occupant.

 

Virkon, the most commonly used disinfectant used on cruise ships, does equally well on hard or soft surfaces when applied by fogger.

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1 hour ago, Fat Albert said:

What is the business model for profit? How much did this cost Princess so far? How much do they have to pay for all the new builds recently and all their vendors and workers without any revenue. They still have expenses and they have no revenue. The new regulations for prevention will be extremely expensive in cleaning products procured and man hours using those products that were never part of the business model man hours required. The Cruise lines will have to take on a huge expense for implementing this new way. The restriction to operate now is going to make the dates for crusing to open again how far away? Another 100 days will bring us to August.  How long can a company pay expenses for bank notes, payroll, operating idle ships daily? How many of the crew will need to find new employment in their home countries while this goes on? How many trained and ready crew will be able to come back and perform? The idle time will increase alcohol intake and emotional stress where a person no longer want sot come back to working on a cruise ship? I have so many questions  and so many variables. Would you want your husband or wife to go back to the cruise line industry for work with children at home? 

Maybe any new business model will be more focused on the value of life rathwe than on the bottom line 

  

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14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Virkon, the most commonly used disinfectant used on cruise ships, does equally well on hard or soft surfaces when applied by fogger.

how long would that take to do the entire ship … and I mean entire, including crew quarters … between cruises ?

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It appears to me that the cruise lines will eliminate all short cruises, as they will be a lot more expensive to do or they will have to raise the fares that will make much to expensive to cruise.  Even 7 days could in danger, I can for see more 10 - 14 day cruises coming in the future. 

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16 minutes ago, ED49404 said:

It appears to me that the cruise lines will eliminate all short cruises, as they will be a lot more expensive to do or they will have to raise the fares that will make much to expensive to cruise.  Even 7 days could in danger, I can for see more 10 - 14 day cruises coming in the future. 

Not sure I agree with that.  It *might* be true in the short term but not in the longer-term.  Plus, for Alaskan cruises I don't see the cruise lines doing more than a 7-night one-way cruise even in the near-term.  That pattern just fits best with the itinerary, distances involved, etc.

 

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22 minutes ago, pms4104 said:

Maybe any new business model will be more focused on the value of life rathwe than on the bottom line 

  

All well thought out.  At this time it has been noted that as people have been staying home, they are taking a closer look at their own living quarters and many are saying Spring Cleaning Time.  To the Cruise Lines and Air Lines, Train Lines and Bus Lines, perhaps they should follow suite.  In particularly, the Cruise Lines.  When we board, we come to stay for awhile 3-7 days and on many, many cruises much longer. Inviting Guests into a filthy place is equal to an insult, or in this case a trap that can lead to the unthinkable.  As has been proven.  I have received letters from Princess and HAL, promising that they will do their best if I just stay in touch.  I certainly will, I am curious as to what they, as a collective, have seen when they do their Soul Searching look in to a mirror.  As far as what they will do, when and if they pass muster  by Summer's end, it will not be a quick snap back.  Many of their crew members will not return.  So this business of spacing out a day or a half of a day to clean properly starts to look like a very reasonable alternative to what has and continues to occur on those Ships with the Crew Members stuck out in International waters..

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Actually if the cruise line turned turn around day into turn around 2 day with everyone getting off on day and the new folks boarding on day 2.  You would actually get rid of one of the worst things of cruising the crowded embarkation and disembarkation process.  Imagine if you could get off anytime between 8 and 4 pm when you get into port.  Likewise if you could just show up and board any time between 8am and 4pm on day of departure. Much more relaxed embarkation and disembarkation process.

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41 minutes ago, ED49404 said:

It appears to me that the cruise lines will eliminate all short cruises, as they will be a lot more expensive to do or they will have to raise the fares that will make much to expensive to cruise.  Even 7 days could in danger, I can for see more 10 - 14 day cruises coming in the future. 

then Princess would effectively eliminate all working families … cruisers will be 66-67 and up retired … and will they even be able to get a Fit to Travel notice ...

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49 minutes ago, ED49404 said:

It appears to me that the cruise lines will eliminate all short cruises, as they will be a lot more expensive to do or they will have to raise the fares that will make much to expensive to cruise.  Even 7 days could in danger, I can for see more 10 - 14 day cruises coming in the future. 

I don't think so.  The shorter the cruise, the less chance of someone getting diagnosed with Covid-19.

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11 minutes ago, npcl said:

Actually if the cruise line turned turn around day into turn around 2 day with everyone getting off on day and the new folks boarding on day 2.  You would actually get rid of one of the worst things of cruising the crowded embarkation and disembarkation process.  Imagine if you could get off anytime between 8 and 4 pm when you get into port.  Likewise if you could just show up and board any time between 8am and 4pm on day of departure. Much more relaxed embarkation and disembarkation process.

Granted I've only cruised 12 times but I've never had a long, inefficient embarkation/disembarkation at any port.  The airports when we've flown in and out for cruises are another story altogether - especially Amsterdam's Schiphol.

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1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Virkon, the most commonly used disinfectant used on cruise ships, does equally well on hard or soft surfaces when applied by fogger.

 

Thank you for the reply.

 

I was thinking Virox, as this is what princess specified in their rfp to sanitize diamond princess:

 

“To accomplish this critically important undertaking, Princess will engage a vendor that has experience in significant cleaning and disinfection projects and experience in the use of the disinfectant agent Virox®, which is well-known to be an effective disinfectant. The expert use of personal protective equipment is also a requirement for the chosen service provider.”

 

Edited by Roberto256
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1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Virkon, the most commonly used disinfectant used on cruise ships, does equally well on hard or soft surfaces when applied by fogger.

How does the fogger work?  My parents had to have their home fumigated many years ago and had to be out of the house for 5 days - at least that's how long they stayed with us.  🙂

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23 minutes ago, Roberto256 said:

I was thinking Virox, as this is what princess specified in their rfp to sanitize diamond princess:

 

“To accomplish this critically important undertaking, Princess will engage a vendor that has experience in significant cleaning and disinfection projects and experience in the use of the disinfectant agent Virox®, which is well-known to be an effective disinfectant. The expert use of personal protective equipment is also a requirement for the chosen service provider.”

 

I appears that the Diamond is the only Princess ship to undergo the extensive cleaning described in the RFP; they disposed of all towels, linens, and mattresses.  However other ships, the Grand, Ruby, and Coral, have not had such cleaning.  So will cruisers remember this?

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57 minutes ago, npcl said:

Actually if the cruise line turned turn around day into turn around 2 day with everyone getting off on day and the new folks boarding on day 2.  You would actually get rid of one of the worst things of cruising the crowded embarkation and disembarkation process.  Imagine if you could get off anytime between 8 and 4 pm when you get into port.  Likewise if you could just show up and board any time between 8am and 4pm on day of departure. Much more relaxed embarkation and disembarkation process.

Lovely thought.  Travel, all travel used to be a joy.  Mostly because of the pace of the departure rhythm.  Slower. And what you propose would only delay the departure by less than a day.  The Crew could get a rest over night, short, but a healthy break.  Departure is always more or less towards sun set. Why not high noon?  Or tea time at 4:00 P.M.? Would that change the course of human events? That would fit right in with the Noon hour lunch and/or Tea Time on the Lido Deck.  Passengers would have time to unpack before first night casual dinner.  A slower more enjoyable pace for Most Ages.

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