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2 hours ago, Coral said:

Sort of off topic......

 

I wish Princess would not have expanded as quickly as they did. They tried to be everything for everyone and reduced space ratio quite a bit from the original ships they used to sail. Of course this caused for more crowded ships. I am amazed when people go on some of the older ships such as Coral Princess or Grand class make a comment that they never fell crowded. Well, there is a reason for that - the space ratio is much better. I am not a fan of the newer ships because they seem crowded everywhere. Wait times in dining rooms, crowded theaters, atrium, etc.... It has been a turnoff for me.

 

I think when they start, it will only be a portion of the ships. Unfortunately it will be the newer ships because they make more money (fit more people on a ship).

 

I would like a return of smaller ships (I am not talking really small but around or less than 100,000 tonns), better space ratio, designed for very few crowds and outdoor space. The new ships force people inside more which is not desirable for spread of viruses, etc...

 

I hope the cruise lines re-think the concept of cruising.

I also liked the smaller ships, unfortunately pricing was much better on the larger ships.  They just went too far with it, especially when you start approaching 5000+ passengers.  Maybe this crisis will reduce that trend in the future.

 

 

 

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For what its worth with potential changes I do not think this will be the death of cruising and travel. At some point the world will need to return to normal and keep going on as usual. It may be tough but you have to keep living life and going on. Sure there are people dying all around the world but the world will overcome this virus. People need meaning in their life, they need to be motivated. To shut down the entire travel industry would put countless people out of work and cause all sorts of civil unrest to the point of rebellion or riots against the authorities if the world were in a prolonged shutdown like this. Experts are saying that more people will die from the treatment rather than the cure. There will be suicides, mental health issues, domestic violence if this sort of prolonged shut down were to continue. You will never be able to contain the population. Soon enough there will be underground restaurants and cinemas opening if such places were to remain forced closed by the government.

 

I can see a 3 to 6 month period of restrictions easier to deal with than longer. People have cancelled weddings, funerals, birthdays all because of this. It cannot go on like it forever. I think at some point society will have reached a peak of deaths that we realise its not worth going on like this and start opening up and travelling again. Immunity will build and eventually either cures or vaccines will be found.

 

To shut down the cruise industry would put too many people out of work. No one can live a life sitting at home all the time and doing nothing. Eventually things will pick up with changes first. The world will be changed but it cannot go on like this forever.

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2 hours ago, Coral said:

Sort of off topic......

 

I wish Princess would not have expanded as quickly as they did. They tried to be everything for everyone and reduced space ratio quite a bit from the original ships they used to sail. Of course this caused for more crowded ships. I am amazed when people go on some of the older ships such as Coral Princess or Grand class make a comment that they never fell crowded. Well, there is a reason for that - the space ratio is much better. I am not a fan of the newer ships because they seem crowded everywhere. Wait times in dining rooms, crowded theaters, atrium, etc.... It has been a turnoff for me.

 

I think when they start, it will only be a portion of the ships. Unfortunately it will be the newer ships because they make more money (fit more people on a ship).

 

I would like a return of smaller ships (I am not talking really small but around or less than 100,000 tonns), better space ratio, designed for very few crowds and outdoor space. The new ships force people inside more which is not desirable for spread of viruses, etc...

 

I hope the cruise lines re-think the concept of cruising.

 I agree with you, I think the ships are getting too big with 4,000 plus passengers, I prefer the 100,000 size ships, they have inside pools as well as all the features required.  The big ships do have some spectacular shows, however, I would rather a smaller size ship with not so many passengers more intimate feel.  

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16 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

For what its worth with potential changes I do not think this will be the death of cruising and travel. At some point the world will need to return to normal and keep going on as usual. It may be tough but you have to keep living life and going on. Sure there are people dying all around the world but the world will overcome this virus. People need meaning in their life, they need to be motivated. To shut down the entire travel industry would put countless people out of work and cause all sorts of civil unrest to the point of rebellion or riots against the authorities if the world were in a prolonged shutdown like this. Experts are saying that more people will die from the treatment rather than the cure. There will be suicides, mental health issues, domestic violence if this sort of prolonged shut down were to continue. You will never be able to contain the population. Soon enough there will be underground restaurants and cinemas opening if such places were to remain forced closed by the government.

 

I can see a 3 to 6 month period of restrictions easier to deal with than longer. People have cancelled weddings, funerals, birthdays all because of this. It cannot go on like it forever. I think at some point society will have reached a peak of deaths that we realise its not worth going on like this and start opening up and travelling again. Immunity will build and eventually either cures or vaccines will be found.

 

To shut down the cruise industry would put too many people out of work. No one can live a life sitting at home all the time and doing nothing. Eventually things will pick up with changes first. The world will be changed but it cannot go on like this forever.

I agree with you, I can't see the cruise industry closing down there are too many of us that enjoy the cruising experience.  

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55 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

For what its worth with potential changes I do not think this will be the death of cruising and travel. At some point the world will need to return to normal and keep going on as usual. It may be tough but you have to keep living life and going on. Sure there are people dying all around the world but the world will overcome this virus. People need meaning in their life, they need to be motivated. To shut down the entire travel industry would put countless people out of work and cause all sorts of civil unrest to the point of rebellion or riots against the authorities if the world were in a prolonged shutdown like this. Experts are saying that more people will die from the treatment rather than the cure. There will be suicides, mental health issues, domestic violence if this sort of prolonged shut down were to continue. You will never be able to contain the population. Soon enough there will be underground restaurants and cinemas opening if such places were to remain forced closed by the government.

 

I can see a 3 to 6 month period of restrictions easier to deal with than longer. People have cancelled weddings, funerals, birthdays all because of this. It cannot go on like it forever. I think at some point society will have reached a peak of deaths that we realise its not worth going on like this and start opening up and travelling again. Immunity will build and eventually either cures or vaccines will be found.

 

To shut down the cruise industry would put too many people out of work. No one can live a life sitting at home all the time and doing nothing. Eventually things will pick up with changes first. The world will be changed but it cannot go on like this forever.

Well said, let's hope all of us can return to cruising again soon 🙂

 

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12 hours ago, Hlitner said:

But we are thinking instead of some future cruise we might simply fly to our destination and rent an apartment for a few days or weeks.  This is particularly true for Europe where we are very comfortable just flying-in and going off on our own be it with trains, a leased car, etc.  While we love using a cruise as a means to get to and from many parts of the world that may now change....especially if the cruise lines impose various additional measures that we would view as a hassle.  For example, there is no way DW and I are going to go to our physician, pay hundreds of dollars, and ask him/her to fill out health forms for a cruise.

 

I suspect that once there is an immunization available for SARS-CoV-2 that you will need a certificate to prove that you have one to enter a country and that it will be tied to your passport identifier.

Edited by brisalta
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23 hours ago, DiamondFour said:

The thought of that was in the back of my mind. 

 

An overnight turnaround where the ship arrives some time in the day for a leisurely all day disembarkation before a massive overnight cleaning on board, carpets, walls, railings, essential maintenance and then an early check in the next morning running for most of the day.

 

It might also need a change to the way crew quarters are allocated so those that are on day shift are in a different location from those on night shift so the crew quarters could be fumigated at an appropriate time when they are not sleeping.

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Change is coming. The entire travel industry will take the CDC directive and make changes to how they do business.  This may take them six months to get everything up to speed; but they will adapt to the new normal; and we citizens will also adjust to the new normal.  It's all good.  Don't sweat the small things you have no control over.  We will get to take another vacation; but it may be later than sooner; and we will embrace the new changes.  Have fun out there.  

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I would like to see cruise lines offer more non-buffet options for meals other than dinner. Go back to having the dining room open for lunch every day, not just sea days. Increase capacity for full service meals at breakfast and lunch. Open specialty restaurants for creative breakfasts and lunches. Stop trying to funnel the masses into what amounts to (in my opinion) a cafeteria.

 

We avoid the buffet whenever possible...it’s just not our thing. Most of our recent cruises have been very port intensive, and we always eat meals ashore when the itinerary allows. On our Oasis cruise we never even entered the buffet...it became a challenge to get through the week without, and we were successful![emoji23]

 

 

 

I personally do think something needs to change in the cancellation policy.  Hopefully the bean counters have kept track of the aggregate costs of all of these evacuations and will weigh this against the cost of allowing a small number of day of sailing cancellation refunds?  Perhaps such refunds could be cash if a passengers provided substantiation from a doctor and as FCC if no doctor is involved to keep folks honest? 

 

 

I’ve thought for a long time that some of the problems with spread of illness on cruise ships as well as other travel and vacation providers could be reduced with a different cancellation policy or maybe mandatory cancellation protection. As it is now, people who have tried to cut costs by not getting insurance board planes and ships when they KNOW they’re ill, because they are trying to salvage several thousand dollars.

 

The cruise lines were very slow to modify their policies to reflect growing evidence that Covid-19 was spreading and becoming a major problem worldwide. How many people boarded ships in the last couple weeks before the modified policies and then the stoppage happened? How many of those would have made a different decision if they knew they could get at least a Future Cruise Credit equal to the amount they had spent?

 

There are lessons to be learned here from cruise lines and cruisers.

 

 

 

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Cincy,  change is coming.  The entire travel industry will have to adapt to a new normal.  Right now we on cruise critic can not try to guess how things will shake out.  One thing for sure is; don't sweat what we can't control.  The Airlines, hotels, amusement parks, cruise lines; etc;  will be in overtime working out options to how to get back into the game.  Once they figure out how they can comply with CDC rules and US Coast Guard oversight;  they will adjust to the changes.  I speak of the Coast Guard primarily for the cruse lines;  they have no effect on hotels, airlines, or amusement parks.  But the change will be good.  It will make it better for everyone.  Now some people will complain about the new changes, but we will all have to adapt.  Not a big deal in the scheme of things.  Have a nice day.  

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Lots of speculation without facts.  COVID-19 is easily spread by person to person contact, sneezing, coughing, transference, etc.  While changing or eliminating buffets can mitigate some spread it does nothing about the coughing, sneezing, and transference from furniture, tables,  etc.  There is nothing cruise lines can do when it comes to "social distancing" since modern mega ships are designed to cram as many folks as possible into the tightest spaces.  Consider that cruise lines have been trying to mitigate the spread of Norovirus, for decades, with only limited success.  And Noro is not nearly as contagious as COVID-19.  

 

We think others have it right when they suggest that the only viable solution to COVID-19 is an effective vaccine.  But that vaccine, if it is ever developed, could well be years away from widespread use.  Consider that the fastest any vaccine has been developed and brought to market was about 3 years.  And that was for mumps, which used a well trodden method of developing vaccines.  COVID-19 is the 7th known Coronavirus and so-far, scientists have not been able to develop a single vaccine to treat any of them!   Talk is cheap in the pharmaceutical industry as any PR release can serve to increase stocks, investments, etc.  When you hear talk about bringing a vaccine to market in a few months or a year that flies in the face of even basic testing in humans.  Consider that it takes several years to do simple testing for pregnant women and newborns.  If you cut short this kind of testing the long term ramifications are unknown, but could be a lot worse then the actual virus.  

 

Where does this leave the cruise industry?  We think they are in a very bad place with no short-term solution.  Despite all the rhetoric here on CC, who among us wants to be on a cruise ship where even a single case of a respiratory virus will cause involuntary imprisonment in one's cabin for an indeterminate period of time.  We love to cruise and have been doing it 10 - 15 weeks a year.  But now, I cannot even imagine when it will be OK to go back on a ship until there is a safe and effective vaccine.  I can also envision a time when travelers will have to carry "shot records" which list all their vaccinations and related shots.  This is what we used to have in the military and I can see a time when one will carry such a document along with their Passport.  But this will be several years away.

 

Hank

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I foresee changes, but not nearly as drastic as most of you.  We do have to reclaim our "new normal" lives soon.  You can't force people to get a flu vaccine.   And, yes, I did get a flu vaccine last fall, after never having a flu vaccine in my life.    I see heightened awareness of handwashing and face touching, etc., but I don't think people will need health certificates to cruise.   They would really be useless, as someone could get infected on the way to the ship or in the days between their doctor visit and the cruise.  It's not realistic.    I want (and do) take health precautions, but I don't want to live my life wrapped in bubble wrap to keep germs off of me.  I wore a mask to the store last week and I felt horribly claustrophobic and anxious, and I'm not an anxious person at all.    I just think things will somewhat revert back as more and more people develop immunity to it.

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No more self serve buffet

Dining rooms - paper menus or use smartphone, more small tables, less tables in general to spread out guests, disposable cutlery (short term only I hope),

Healthchecks and assessments on embarkation day for all passengers

"OK to sail" enforcement for elderly passengers or in lieu of that proof of travel/health insurance for all elderly passengers

An ever-changing black list of countries from which no passengers will be accepted

Lots of cruises to nowhere initially to ease concerns that people may pick up or spread disease to or from other countries

Lots of great deals - low low prices with great perks to entice people on board

Ships sailing at well below capacity

Enforced staggered embarkation on day one - ships leaving later as a result. 

Smoking will be curtailed - only outside in designated areas. Casinos become smoke free short term.

Maybe cruise lines look at sailing out of more ports in NA as people shy away from flying as well and as a way to drum up business.

 

Longer term

Lots of ships temporarily mothballed

Some smaller lines will go out of business, some larger ones may merge - Maybe Princess/Costa become one line? Costa serves Mediterranean, Princess serves NA? Something like that.

New builds halted

Lots of great deals - low low prices but without great perks to entice people on board and then squeeze them

If/when a vaccine is found - all passengers/crew must have proof of vaccination. Ships begin to stop in more ports.

Casinos return to business as usual

Less Asian cruises as people shy away - not saying this is ok, just thinking about realities 

Buffets begin to return to normal as a vaccine eases concerns

 

A must short and long term: Cruise lines can no longer wing it when it comes to health/breakouts on their ships. They are all going to have to have a  plan in place detailing how such things are going to be handled, how they will isolate teat patients, how they will be transferred if needed, where the ship will go if there is a large outbreak of any virus, what port they will be able to get into and so on. They are going to need some plan in place that I, as a passenger, can look at and feel safe that I wont be stranded at sea for weeks on end as ports play hot potato. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, brisalta said:

 

It might also need a change to the way crew quarters are allocated so those that are on day shift are in a different location from those on night shift so the crew quarters could be fumigated at an appropriate time when they are not sleeping.

You raise a very good point. Crews are jammed into places like sardines in a sardine can. They'll need to think about how they fix this.

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Not just cruise lines have this problem.  Look at the recent issue with the Navy's aircraft carriers.  They have around 5,000 on board; and no way of changing the crew bunks.  They are packed too

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1 hour ago, wrongwaywatson said:

I foresee changes, but not nearly as drastic as most of you.  We do have to reclaim our "new normal" lives soon.  You can't force people to get a flu vaccine.   And, yes, I did get a flu vaccine last fall, after never having a flu vaccine in my life.    I see heightened awareness of handwashing and face touching, etc., but I don't think people will need health certificates to cruise.   They would really be useless, as someone could get infected on the way to the ship or in the days between their doctor visit and the cruise.  It's not realistic.    I want (and do) take health precautions, but I don't want to live my life wrapped in bubble wrap to keep germs off of me.  I wore a mask to the store last week and I felt horribly claustrophobic and anxious, and I'm not an anxious person at all.    I just think things will somewhat revert back as more and more people develop immunity to it.

 

I'm with you on this.  By the looks of it, people may not realize that they are exposed to pathogens, and yes, CoVid-19 included, most every time they leave their house (and maybe even when they stay in their house).  Sure, this is an infectious little bugger for sure.  I believe testing for antibodies is key as we've all heard that a vaccine could be a year or more in the future.  The nation will know what it is dealing with at that point in time.  
I do see the longer itineraries being canceled, though ... at least in the short term if not for a quite some time.  This isn't, nor will it be, the last virus to hit us hard.  The only thing the cruiselines are guilty of (if you even could call it that) is to be the place where passengers start exhibiting their symptoms.  The passengers (or crew) that originally brought it onboard after picking it up elsewhere ... in the course of their daily activities.  Since we all still have to partake in those daily activities (grocery shopping or even deliveries now, school, going to the doctor / dentist, any entertainment venue or event, work ...yes, even those essential service staff carry this bug, any public and even private transportation, staying at a hotel, etc etc).  

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On 4/11/2020 at 1:56 PM, portiemom said:

Absolutely looking forward to a vaccine for SARS-CoV-2, but after that there will still be other threats (emerging pathogens) to come along. I don't see basing the future of cruising on the availability of one vaccine. I do hope this is a wake-up call for those who are in the anti-vaccine camp. A reminder of what the world looks like in the midst of a pandemic and why we need these vaccines and can't slack off.

 

 

Nice thought but will never happen. The very fact that this all started with a model and a known shady doctor only means that those who are convinced negatively about vaccines are too far into their commitment to now admit they were had. Anti-vaxxers are anti-vaxxers for life no matter how short that might be. The only way they or their loved one will ever consider vaccinations is when they are turned away from events, like cruises or schools. Even then though I'm sure they'll hire lawyers to fight for their right to get sick and get others sick, to effectively yell fire in a crowded theatre. Like the flat earthers, they deserve all the derision and insults the world can muster.

Edited by nbsjcruiser
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5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Lots of speculation without facts.  COVID-19 is easily spread by person to person contact, sneezing, coughing, transference, etc.  While changing or eliminating buffets can mitigate some spread it does nothing about the coughing, sneezing, and transference from furniture, tables,  etc.  There is nothing cruise lines can do when it comes to "social distancing" since modern mega ships are designed to cram as many folks as possible into the tightest spaces.  Consider that cruise lines have been trying to mitigate the spread of Norovirus, for decades, with only limited success.  And Noro is not nearly as contagious as COVID-19.  

 

We think others have it right when they suggest that the only viable solution to COVID-19 is an effective vaccine.  But that vaccine, if it is ever developed, could well be years away from widespread use.  Consider that the fastest any vaccine has been developed and brought to market was about 3 years.  And that was for mumps, which used a well trodden method of developing vaccines.  COVID-19 is the 7th known Coronavirus and so-far, scientists have not been able to develop a single vaccine to treat any of them!   Talk is cheap in the pharmaceutical industry as any PR release can serve to increase stocks, investments, etc.  When you hear talk about bringing a vaccine to market in a few months or a year that flies in the face of even basic testing in humans.  Consider that it takes several years to do simple testing for pregnant women and newborns.  If you cut short this kind of testing the long term ramifications are unknown, but could be a lot worse then the actual virus.  

 

Where does this leave the cruise industry?  We think they are in a very bad place with no short-term solution.  Despite all the rhetoric here on CC, who among us wants to be on a cruise ship where even a single case of a respiratory virus will cause involuntary imprisonment in one's cabin for an indeterminate period of time.  We love to cruise and have been doing it 10 - 15 weeks a year.  But now, I cannot even imagine when it will be OK to go back on a ship until there is a safe and effective vaccine.  I can also envision a time when travelers will have to carry "shot records" which list all their vaccinations and related shots.  This is what we used to have in the military and I can see a time when one will carry such a document along with their Passport.  But this will be several years away.

 

Hank

Pretty bleak outlook, but a reasonable accurate assessment.

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8 minutes ago, Sunwanabe said:

Pretty bleak outlook, but a reasonable accurate assessment.

Your telling me!  We still have an August booking on the Island Princess which now costs about half what it did when we  booked.  At this point it is such a bargain it is like Princess would pay us to take the cruise.  But we must consider that the Tattoo in Edinburgh has been cancelled, it is likely that the ports in Greenland will be closed, the airline we were using to get from Southampton to Paris, after the cruise, went bankrupt in early March, etc etc.  Since we have yet to make the final payment it is still easy to cancel with little financial loss.  What would you do?

 

Hank

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15 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

Your telling me!  We still have an August booking on the Island Princess which now costs about half what it did when we  booked.  At this point it is such a bargain it is like Princess would pay us to take the cruise.  But we must consider that the Tattoo in Edinburgh has been cancelled, it is likely that the ports in Greenland will be closed, the airline we were using to get from Southampton to Paris, after the cruise, went bankrupt in early March, etc etc.  Since we have yet to make the final payment it is still easy to cancel with little financial loss.  What would you do?

 

Hank

Based on how much uncertainty there is from cruises to port calls, flights, I would cancel where possible depending on ones financial loss. Who knows if these cruise companies can weather the financial storm in the many months ahead.

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6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Lots of speculation without facts.  COVID-19 is easily spread by person to person contact, sneezing, coughing, transference, etc.  While changing or eliminating buffets can mitigate some spread it does nothing about the coughing, sneezing, and transference from furniture, tables,  etc.  There is nothing cruise lines can do when it comes to "social distancing" since modern mega ships are designed to cram as many folks as possible into the tightest spaces.  Consider that cruise lines have been trying to mitigate the spread of Norovirus, for decades, with only limited success.  And Noro is not nearly as contagious as COVID-19.  

 

We think others have it right when they suggest that the only viable solution to COVID-19 is an effective vaccine.  But that vaccine, if it is ever developed, could well be years away from widespread use.  Consider that the fastest any vaccine has been developed and brought to market was about 3 years.  And that was for mumps, which used a well trodden method of developing vaccines.  COVID-19 is the 7th known Coronavirus and so-far, scientists have not been able to develop a single vaccine to treat any of them!   Talk is cheap in the pharmaceutical industry as any PR release can serve to increase stocks, investments, etc.  When you hear talk about bringing a vaccine to market in a few months or a year that flies in the face of even basic testing in humans.  Consider that it takes several years to do simple testing for pregnant women and newborns.  If you cut short this kind of testing the long term ramifications are unknown, but could be a lot worse then the actual virus.  

 

Where does this leave the cruise industry?  We think they are in a very bad place with no short-term solution.  Despite all the rhetoric here on CC, who among us wants to be on a cruise ship where even a single case of a respiratory virus will cause involuntary imprisonment in one's cabin for an indeterminate period of time.  We love to cruise and have been doing it 10 - 15 weeks a year.  But now, I cannot even imagine when it will be OK to go back on a ship until there is a safe and effective vaccine.  I can also envision a time when travelers will have to carry "shot records" which list all their vaccinations and related shots.  This is what we used to have in the military and I can see a time when one will carry such a document along with their Passport.  But this will be several years away.

 

Hank

Two of the main reason no vaccines have been brought to market for Corona viruses has been because 1. most are minor  and 2. The really serious ones, SARS and MERS died out before vaccines could be tested. There were candidates for both SARS and MERS, just never tested.

 

This is the first one in the spot of being infectious, with severe enough impact such that a vaccine is worthwhile, yet not so severe that it dies out like MERS and SARS (both of which had shorter incubation times, basically no minor cases, all were serious, no asymptomatic spread)

 

One ironic thing is if we are successful if limiting spread to a more manageable level, the larger the clinical trials will need to be and the longer it will take to test and candidate vaccines. If you have lots of new cases developing in a population it is easier to test the efficacy of a vaccine than if there are relatively few.  By the time the candidates make it to phase two our spread rates should be considerably lower.  It will still be here, but fewer new cases.

 

Edited by npcl
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/10/2020 at 1:43 PM, Cruise Raider said:

Just curious .... what short term (maybe even long term) changes might we expect in the cruising world after this suspension of operations is over?  

 

- Sufficient supplies of test kits and masks onboard for all crew and passengers (test kits would only be good for the current outbreak, though)

 

 

If someone has already asked about this...sorry!  I'm really curious about how face masks will be handled onboard once we are able to cruise.  I think it's a given that it will be either mandatory or 'highly encouraged' to wear face masks when we're out and about doing our thing at home after things have gotten back to 'normal' and before a vaccine is out.  What about during a cruise?  One of the main things we do on cruises is eat.  One can't do both at the same time...wear face masks and eat, that is.  And honestly, the thought of lowering your face mask to your throat and eating is gross if you know anything about cross contamination, etc.  Plus, socializing is done a great deal with your dinner companions while eating a meal...

 

I'm sure I haven't thought everything out to a 't' but wonder how this segment will be handled.  

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