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12 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

So, after watching this morning's news, will there now be a police investigation into the virus spread in a particular nursing home?

I'm very surprised it took so long for the authorities to take action as it's been obvious for a while that there was something wrong with sanitation procedures for it to spread so quickly. Or were the staff so overworked and overwhelmed that standards could not be maintained. I'm guessing management may have some explaining to do.

 

There should be. Apparently the first worker who had it turned up to work there knowing she had a mild fever and mild symptoms. She was then praised by police and the politicians for being honest and said nothing further would be done as it was not her fault and she did not know she had the virus.

 

Honestly in this time even mild symptoms should have triggered suspicion. If that is the case as was reported in the media then the first worker who had the virus should be charged and held criminally responsible if they did turn up to work in an aged care facility with mild symptoms. They shouldn't even be doing it in the best of times as it risks the elderly there.

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The commonwealrh brought in a contractor, Aspen Medical, to.manage infection control in that place weeks ago.  That there are new cases is a very real concern with 24 staff and 37 patients testing positive, plus 14 deaths now.

 

Media, Anglicare and/or Govt polies must be wondering how to somehow apportion blame on the cruise industry.

Edited by banzaii
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46 minutes ago, banzaii said:

The commonwealrh brought in a contractor, Aspen Medical, to.manage infection control in that place weeks ago.  That there are new cases is a very real concern with 24 staff and 37 patients testing positive, plus 14 deaths now.

 

Media, Anglicare and/or Govt polies must be wondering how to somehow apportion blame on the cruise industry.


Did they? First I've read of that. 

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@Pushka

This is the only public reference I can find: https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/may/02/why-is-it-spreading-sydneys-newmarch-house-aged-care-home-becomes-epicentre-of-covid-19-fight

 

Despite efforts to isolate every resident and the federal government’s introduction of surge workers from a private company, Aspen Medical, to help contain the outbreak, infections have risen steadily.

 

And the obligatory mention of Ruby:

The Covid-19 outbreak at Newmarch House, which has so far claimed the lives of 13 residents and threatens to overtake the Ruby Princess as Australia’s deadliest wave of the virus, began when a part-time carer worked six shifts while symptomatic and infectious.

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And quite tragically, one of the parients mentioned in the article, Ann Fahey, passed away yesterday according to Sunrise.

 

May she rest in peace.

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2 hours ago, Porky55 said:

Doing some research on Ruby and Wikipedia has a very concise breakdown of cruise ships and Coronavirus - Pushka you will 💕💕 this.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_on_cruise_ships#Ruby_Princess

 

 


Thanks. This bit seems quite interesting as to why Ruby returned to Sydney early. I'd heard it was because Princess wanted all the ships back to port pronto but this suggests they returned early because of the flu/possible Covid outbreak. 
 

From 15 March 2020, Australia banned cruise ships arriving from foreign ports. However, exemptions were granted to allow four ships, already en route to Australia, to dock and disembark their passengers. On 19 March 2020, Ruby Princess, which was one of the four ships given the exemption, docked at the Overseas Passenger Terminal in Sydney, Australia, after a cruise to New Zealand. The cruise ship was forced to return to Sydney early after some passengers reported respiratory problems, but when disembarking passengers were not told that anyone on board presented any symptoms during the voyage

 

I love cruises. My absolute favourite holiday. But the way most cruiselines have managed Covid, then the process of cancellation and refund, has totally put me off going large scale cruising again. With any company. Likely will consider Viking at most. 

Edited by Pushka
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52 minutes ago, Pushka said:


Thanks. This bit seems quite interesting as to why Ruby returned to Sydney early. I'd heard it was because Princess wanted all the ships back to port pronto but this suggests they returned early because of the flu/possible Covid outbreak. 
 

From 15 March 2020, Australia banned cruise ships arriving from foreign ports. However, exemptions were granted to allow four ships, already en route to Australia, to dock and disembark their passengers. On 19 March 2020, Ruby Princess, which was one of the four ships given the exemption, docked at the Overseas Passenger Terminal in Sydney, Australia, after a cruise to New Zealand. The cruise ship was forced to return to Sydney early after some passengers reported respiratory problems, but when disembarking passengers were not told that anyone on board presented any symptoms during the voyage

 

I love cruises. My absolute favourite holiday. But the way most cruiselines have managed Covid, then the process of cancellation and refund, has totally put me off going large scale cruising again. With any company. Likely will consider Viking at most. 

There's a reason Wikipedia is frowned upon as a source of information. The use of the word "forced" to return to Sydney linked to "reported respiratory problems" leads to unwarranted assumptions. Who hasn't been on a cruise with reported respiratory problems?

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Wikipedia is not a totally reliable source of information. As I understand it Princess tried to complete the itinerary but it became clear when the ship reach Napier that they would not be able to so they returned to Sydney. The illnesses onboard may not have affected that decision one way or the other. They needed to get back to Sydney to disembark the passengers, pure and simple. At that point in time they had no confirmed cases of the virus. Tests that were processed in Wellington were negative. There are usually a fair number of people with respiratory illnesses on most cruises anyway as I have seen for myself on a number of cruises.

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Agree with the wiki stuff which is why I asked which was true? Does anyone know or is it an assumption - either way. 

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1 hour ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Wikipedia is not a totally reliable source of information. As I understand it Princess tried to complete the itinerary but it became clear when the ship reach Napier that they would not be able to so they returned to Sydney. The illnesses onboard may not have affected that decision one way or the other. They needed to get back to Sydney to disembark the passengers, pure and simple. At that point in time they had no confirmed cases of the virus. Tests that were processed in Wellington were negative. There are usually a fair number of people with respiratory illnesses on most cruises anyway as I have seen for myself on a number of cruises.

So true. The Ruby Princess returned early because Princess announced that cruise that would extend beyond the 17th March would end early at a time and place that was convenient for operational reasons and that was convenient for passengers. To return to the port where the cruise was planned to end, made sense. I have never heard that the cruise was cut short because passengers had respiratory illnesses. There is nearly always some respiratory illness on board.

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On the 60 Minutes show last night, they mentioned that the COVID-19 virus mutates as it moves through the population. This allows researchers to identify who someone caught the virus from and also to identify clusters. Wow!! This means that researchers would be able to identify where the virus on the Ruby Princess cluster came from: one or more source and also where it came from (USA, UK or Asia). This has not been announced publicly, but presumably it will come out at the hearings. Of course, we may not hear the full story if it doesn't fit into the ridiculous narrative put out by the Police Commissioner, i.e. a sneezing waiter.

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28 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

On the 60 Minutes show last night, they mentioned that the COVID-19 virus mutates as it moves through the population. This allows researchers to identify who someone caught the virus from and also to identify clusters. Wow!! This means that researchers would be able to identify where the virus on the Ruby Princess cluster came from: one or more source and also where it came from (USA, UK or Asia). This has not been announced publicly, but presumably it will come out at the hearings. Of course, we may not hear the full story if it doesn't fit into the ridiculous narrative put out by the Police Commissioner, i.e. a sneezing waiter.

What do you expect to happen when our state government did the tests and have the results. If it does not suit them they can suppress that information. It would not do much as the lawyers for Princess would get hold of that information fairly quickly.

 

This attachment is from the ABC news website. Does Ruby Princess really matter that much at all when over 90% of other cases all around the country cannot be attributed to the ship.

 

rp.JPG

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It was interesting to hear from the man who was evacuated off Ruby Princess. Two things that struck me, the on board medical team perhaps was a little too confident about their assessment that there was no COVID19. From what he said it did seem they would not even entertain the idea he might have COVID19. Second if the ambulance personnel who took him were so worried to dress in full PPE gear how could the passengers have been allowed to disembark without further testing or quarantine? Hopefully we learn from this and come up with better procedures on and off the ship because it doed seem as if no one was really prepared for COVID19🤔

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7 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

It was interesting to hear from the man who was evacuated off Ruby Princess. Two things that struck me, the on board medical team perhaps was a little too confident about their assessment that there was no COVID19. From what he said it did seem they would not even entertain the idea he might have COVID19. Second if the ambulance personnel who took him were so worried to dress in full PPE gear how could the passengers have been allowed to disembark without further testing or quarantine? Hopefully we learn from this and come up with better procedures on and off the ship because it doed seem as if no one was really prepared for COVID19🤔

I think it would have been a responsible action on behalf of the ship's personnel not to tell a passenger he might have COVID. The ship could not do the tests so they could not be sure. There would be no point in causing panic by confirming that the passenger MIGHT have COVID.

 

The medical centre on the ship alerted NSW Health that there was a possibility of COVID on board. The doctor requested that the paramedics dress in full PPE because there was a chance that the passengers being evacuated with heart issues, could have COVID.

 

We have to ask, how could the NSW Health Dept clear the passengers to disembark with just a written notice to self-quarantine when they get home.

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59 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

On the 60 Minutes show last night, they mentioned that the COVID-19 virus mutates as it moves through the population. This allows researchers to identify who someone caught the virus from and also to identify clusters. Wow!! This means that researchers would be able to identify where the virus on the Ruby Princess cluster came from: one or more source and also where it came from (USA, UK or Asia). This has not been announced publicly, but presumably it will come out at the hearings. Of course, we may not hear the full story if it doesn't fit into the ridiculous narrative put out by the Police Commissioner, i.e. a sneezing waiter.

Yes that’s the technology they are using in SA to identify linkages in cases here. And certainly the genetics of the virus in Australia has been determined to be very much similar to the same strain in US UK and Europe and not from Asia. 

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31 minutes ago, DiamondFour said:

What do you expect to happen when our state government did the tests and have the results. If it does not suit them they can suppress that information. It would not do much as the lawyers for Princess would get hold of that information fairly quickly.

 

This attachment is from the ABC news website. Does Ruby Princess really matter that much at all when over 90% of other cases all around the country cannot be attributed to the ship.

 

rp.JPG

20 % is a substantial whack for SA and just from one ship! As well as a high death rate here.
 

Grasping at straws to say 10% Australia wide is inconsequential. 

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9 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

The medical centre on the ship alerted NSW Health that there was a possibility of COVID on board.

Did they? I thought they just said respiratory. 

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6 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Did they? I thought they just said respiratory. 

Even if they hadn't mentioned COVID surely one would have expected NSW Health to suspect that a respiratory condition, with influenza tested for and ruled out, meant that COVID was a risk. In Singapore when I disembarked from the Pacific Explorer a full month earlier, every passenger was tested for a fever.

Edited by nnps
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3 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Wikipedia is not a totally reliable source of information.

Gosh, really pleased I don’t donate to them then, though they have pleaded a few times while browsing 🤔 

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1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

On the 60 Minutes show last night, they mentioned that the COVID-19 virus mutates as it moves through the population. This allows researchers to identify who someone caught the virus from and also to identify clusters. Wow!! This means that researchers would be able to identify where the virus on the Ruby Princess cluster came from: one or more source and also where it came from (USA, UK or Asia). This has not been announced publicly, but presumably it will come out at the hearings. Of course, we may not hear the full story if it doesn't fit into the ridiculous narrative put out by the Police Commissioner, i.e. a sneezing waiter.

 

“ This allows researchers to identify who someone caught the virus from and also to identify clusters. Wow!!“


Agree, this sure does sound like 💩 to me. 60 Minutes making the narrative suit the story .....

 

Anyway - will be interesting to see what, if anything comes out of the Public Hearings tomorrow 🤔

Edited by Porky55
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31 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Yes that’s the technology they are using in SA to identify linkages in cases here. And certainly the genetics of the virus in Australia has been determined to be very much similar to the same strain in US UK and Europe and not from Asia. 

If the strain of COVID from the Ruby infections isn't the same strain that is in Asia, that lets the 'sneezing waiter' off the hook.😁 Of course, there never was a sneezing waiter.

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