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3 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

For whatever it means , whether true or not,  a few days ago a Celebrity Rep told me : 

" Your refund has been " processed ", however , Mr XXX it will take a few weeks to be " disbursed " . Kindly be patient and you should see it on you credit card shortly "

I did not ask her to further explain " A few weeks,  shortly , etc " .

I can only imagine some of the irate calls these front line Reps get--- absolutely not fair to them .

 

 

 

Not fair to them -agreed.  They are just doing their scripted job.  But at least they still have one!

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19 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Rainy Day fund - yes.  Rainy Month fund- perhaps.  Six Month Typhoon fund- not likely.  Meteor Striking Earth fund- extinction.

So you think most individuals or companies or governments had enough foresight and saved resources to plan for this unexpected and very rapid global crisis?  Patently obvious? Incompetent? 

Of course the the poster does, that is 'likely' they are biting at the bit to get their money back, right now or else!

 

Or else.

 

Or else.

 

Or else - keep posting about it here... it is no doubt that everyone who wants a refund needs to get it, IF it is to be under the T&C's of their booking...

 

Now that many of us have lots and lots and lots of time on our hands, we can be on the phone with X, posting on CC about our calls or lack thereof from X and etc...

 

I can wait to read the next crop of 'issues' to arise once this goes away, to a great degree.. well, maybe not.. LOL

 

bon voyage

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9 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

For whatever it means , whether true or not,  a few days ago a Celebrity Rep told me : 

" Your refund has been " processed ", however , Mr XXX it will take a few weeks to be " disbursed " . Kindly be patient and you should see it on you credit card shortly "

I did not ask her to further explain " A few weeks,  shortly , etc " .

I can only imagine some of the irate calls these front line Reps get--- absolutely not fair to them .

Just think of what we would be reading were the Reps not there to pick up the phone, abuse or not?.... LOL

 

Let us not count the threads, because they may be immeasurable!

 

bon voyage

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13 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

 

"I Got You Babe."

First off, I hope TeeRick is referencing another classic Sonny & Cher song and not hitting on me. I mean, it's flattering but I am very happily married.

 

Obviously, there will always be a certain few, from a certain corps. A representation of just a few more, who continue to roar. No matter the circumstances and the difficulties, things are just not right. I may not know it all, and for those of you that do, I guess you are fortunate. I do know one thing, my Celebrity account will eventually be square. Although you are not, I'm confident yours will be too.    

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3 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

First off, I hope TeeRick is referencing another classic Sonny & Cher song and not hitting on me. I mean, it's flattering but I am very happily married.

 

Obviously, there will always be a certain few, from a certain corps. A representation of just a few more, who continue to roar. No matter the circumstances and the difficulties, things are just not right. I may not know it all, and for those of you that do, I guess you are fortunate. I do know one thing, my Celebrity account will eventually be square. Although you are not, I'm confident yours will be too.    

Spif-

LOL! 😄 I think I was suggesting more like  "I got your back" in agreement with you but feel free to be flattered any way you want!   Maybe to avoid confusion I should have used "United We Stand"?  See now you put Sonny & Cher songs in my head too!  Thanks a lot!

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1 hour ago, ECCruise said:

That is the very definition of a cash flow problem.

They are literally waiting for additional people to pay deposits/final payments in order to refund your money, for which you have received nothing.  Everyone is not asking for their money back at the same time, only those who have received nothing for the funds they have given the cruise line.  Many, many people who are on cruises later in 2020, in 2021 and in 2022 are not asking for refunds. 

Maybe I was a horrible business owner for 20+ years.  When someone paid me for a service, I tendered that service to them.  If they did not receive that service, their money was returned to them.  I did NOT have to wait for someone else to pay for the service to refund to the first person.  That, I think, is basically a Ponzi scheme.

 

In real estate and  many other businesses, deposits are held in ecrow til the deal closes. 

 

  Seems this not even a consideration in the foreign flagged Cruise Line business where they freely spend  the deposits  way before the ship sails! 

 

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38 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Not fair to them -agreed.  They are just doing their scripted job.  But at least they still have one!

I doubt they are thinking  " Oh well, I still have a job " when listening to some of " types " that continuously pick a fight as noted on almost every thread on CC.

" Treat people the way THEY deserve to be treated " 

 

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1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Rainy Day fund - yes.  Rainy Month fund- perhaps.  Six Month Typhoon fund- not likely.  Meteor Striking Earth fund- extinction.

So you think most individuals or companies or governments had enough foresight and saved resources to plan for this unexpected and very rapid global crisis?  Patently obvious? Incompetent? 

The cruise companies have none of the above.  They never thought the party would end.  They took your money and mine and spent it on ship building, refurbishment while having virtually no cash reserves.  Huge executive paydays.  And when the profits rolled in, spent a big chunk of them on stock buybacks.  And to compound the issue, were loaded with debt.

 

Let's see how my particular situation fits.

RCCL corporate has $14,000 of my money, give or take.  This is for 11 cruises, 1 cancelled and 10 booked with deposits.  I only want $4000 of my money:  $3200 refund from a cancelled cruise that was supposed to sail next week and $800 in airline change fees from Azamara.

I have no desire to take the other $10,000 back for 10 deposits at this time.  How many tens of thousands of people have millions and millions of dollars in their coffers in exactly the same situation.  Not asking for the dough back, willing to leave it with the cruise line.  Yet no more than a handful of people have received refunds, if any.  And lots of variation in what people say they are being told.  30 days. 45 days.  60 days. 2 billing cycles (that old game).

And virtually zero transparency.  That is the issue that so many are having a problem with.

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8 hours ago, RICCruisers said:

We just cancelled a B2B for September.  It was before final payment.  I received an email confirming both cancellations.  Here is what the email said:

 

Dear Celebrity Guest,

There has been a change to your cruise reservation or guest status. When cruise reservations are cancelled, activity or services under the cruise reservation are also cancelled. All reservations cancelled are listed below.

The credit card to which the order was charged will be credited within two billing cycles.
You may want to print this page for your records.  

 

I am happy with this result and will patiently await my refund on the deposits.

 

 

 

I would be happy with such an e-mail.  However, for all of the five cruises that have been cancelled by Celebrity (3) or the two I have cancelled, I have received no such e-mail.  Celebrity is sitting on a LOT of my money.

Edited by Happy Cruiser 6143
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2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Spif-

LOL! 😄 I think I was suggesting more like  "I got your back" in agreement with you but feel free to be flattered any way you want!   Maybe to avoid confusion I should have used "United We Stand"?  See now you put Sonny & Cher songs in my head too!  Thanks a lot!

Knew exactly what you meant. Thanks. Had to have a little fun with that.

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2 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

 I do know one thing, my Celebrity account will eventually be square. Although you are not, I'm confident yours will be too.    

Not sure what the basis of your extreme confidence in Celebrity/RRCL is but have you ever taken a look at the RRCL Balance Sheet, the ratio of liabilities to assets, the enormous debt that they are carrying? While I certainly hope that everyone is made whole by this fiasco, the RRCL financial statements, pre-pandemic,  suggests a different outcome and if you can't see that, I have to praise your blind confidence. Maybe someday you'll even get a chance to see their tax returns, once they're done being audited that is.

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When I canceled our B2B cruise on 13 March I was advised "at least 30 days" for the refunds to show up on my credit card at that time. OK. Then to find out my useless TA dropped the ball and her boss (after I called on 30 March to get an update and then find out the useless TA didn't forwarded my requests to Celebrity yet!) forwarded (while I was on the phone with her) my requests for refunds to Celebrity on 30 March. Later that day I spoke with Celebrity and they did receive both requests. 👍 At that time Celebrity advised me it would take approximately 4 to 6 weeks for the payments to show up on my credit card. I'm giving it the 6 weeks before I see anything. If it's sooner, score! 😎

Edited by davekathy
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16 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Finally, yes I am confident. Not in the sense of my tongue-in cheek comments as underlined by treehugr. 

@Spif Barwunkel - My apologies, I actually got a good chuckle out of your comment and found it refreshing in contrast to much has been posted of late. Please accept my apology, I wasn't aware no humor was intended. 

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2 hours ago, richard1s said:

Not sure what the basis of your extreme confidence in Celebrity/RRCL is but have you ever taken a look at the RRCL Balance Sheet, the ratio of liabilities to assets, the enormous debt that they are carrying? While I certainly hope that everyone is made whole by this fiasco, the RRCL financial statements, pre-pandemic,  suggests a different outcome and if you can't see that, I have to praise your blind confidence. Maybe someday you'll even get a chance to see their tax returns, once they're done being audited that is.

Wow, pounced on. Deservedly so I guess. After all, I did say in a previous post "I may not know it  all." By not gorging on balance sheets, debt ratios, financial statements etc., I did not realize that therein lies the whole story. Past, present and future. 

 

Therefore, thanks to richard1s I am changing my way of thinking and how I look at things. My extreme confidence will be severely narrowed to "kinda sorta." Therefore, when I receive my refund check from X, the fact that r1s and similar thinkers did not receive theirs (if they were eligible of course) will validate the modified confidence factor. Of course they too will be bolstered in that they knew they were right all along. Winners all around. And that blind confidence thing, thank you for that. Seems an optometrist visit is in the offing.

 

Good post r1s.

Edited by Spif Barwunkel
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12 minutes ago, treehugr said:

@Spif Barwunkel - My apologies, I actually got a good chuckle out of your comment and found it refreshing in contrast to much has been posted of late. Please accept my apology, I wasn't aware no humor was intended. 

Please, no apology necessary. Like I did with TeeRick, I knew exactly where you were coming from. Levity and tongue-in-cheek are necessary, even in the most serious of discussions.

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4 hours ago, hcat said:

 

In real estate and  many other businesses, deposits are held in ecrow til the deal closes. 

 

  Seems this not even a consideration in the foreign flagged Cruise Line business where they freely spend  the deposits  way before the ship sails! 

 

 

Same goes for airlines, hotels, insurance companies, etc. etc. etc. both domestic and international. These companies rely on cash flow and manipulating debt. Just like hundreds of thousands of businesses small and large that rely on lines of credit to offset AR's. 

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15 hours ago, JonnyCT81 said:

 

 

1. Refunds are taking between 45-60 days to process if you choose to take them. This is not because they are hoarding your money, it's because they have to mitigate their cash flow. If everyone tried to get their money back at the same time, they (or any other service/banking related industry) would go bust - they do not have everyone's deposits and fares sitting around in the bank just waiting to go to your folio's on the ship.

 

 

Sorry, but this doesn't pass the smell test.  In normal times I would agree, however RCL just drew down a multibillion $ line of credit which will supposedly sustain them into 2021. At the moment they should be swimming in cash.

 

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23 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

 

Sorry, but this doesn't pass the smell test.  In normal times I would agree, however RCL just drew down a multibillion $ line of credit which will supposedly sustain them into 2021. At the moment they should be swimming in cash.

 

 

 

The OP was trying to make this thread about something being positive - clearly relating to their love of cruising, but it's morphing into a debate about how modern day businesses conduct their finances.

 

Firstly to my comment about cash flow.   Just like in the great depression, there were the "runs on the banks".   If we all went to our bank and demanded all of our cash back, the banks wouldn't be able to give it to us, not because they don't have the cash, but because when you make a deposit in a bank, that cash is used for other things for the bank like loans, mortgages, LOC, etc.  They don't have all the cash on hand just sitting in a vault waiting for you to come get it.     This same principle is used in business - if celebrity is like any other service business, they probably pay their vendors on NET 30/60/90 day payments - meaning they still have to pay people who gave them the food, booze, fuel and other items from cruises that have long since ended.  This allows for cash flow to be mitigated and business to keep running.  Deposits and fares are only one cog in a vast financial machine of the company; however this is how business is done in all large corporations from chain restaurants, to cruise ships. 

 

Yes they secured additional funding, but they have fixed assets that require maintenance, fuel, and they still have to pay their staff.   They just furloughed 25% of their staff, due in part that they need to stop the bleeding and keep cash running - the day you can't make payroll is the day you file for bankruptcy.  No one was planning for this to happen and IMHO they are doing the right thing by cancelling cruises until June, and I expect this to be pushed out again.

 

You WILL get your money back, and this WILL pass - I get that no one likes waiting for their money to come back, but they are doing what is financially right for the company by staggering refunds and offering a 25% bonus to take FCC.  Again, your patience is the best thing that you can do for both your TA and X.  I am doing my part to support not only X but my sanity and have booked vacations with them through 2022.  I'm planning on getting back out on the open sea with an Aperol Spritz in my hand as soon as this is all over. 

Edited by JonnyCT81
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1 hour ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Therefore, thanks to richard1s I am changing my way of thinking and how I look at things. My extreme confidence will be severely narrowed to "kinda sorta."

Good post r1s.

Thanks so much; I'm glad I could help you see things differently. And I'm sure you agree that it's always better to make decisions and manage expectations based on actual information and facts rather than the "metrics in your head". And I do admire your confidence, despite some of the truly outrageous and totally irresponsible decisions lately from Celebrity and parent company RRCL. While it doesn't seem like they were looking out for the safety and best interest of customers and crew over the past several months, there is always room for being optimistic that, as they get painted into a smaller and tighter corner, they will finally choose to do the right thing. 

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2 hours ago, JonnyCT81 said:

The OP was trying to make this thread about something being positive - clearly relating to their love of cruising, but it's morphing into a debate about how modern day businesses conduct their finances.

@JonnyCT81

Agreed! Imagine if the OP had left out the 2nd sentence below. The debate, or lack thereof, would probably have taken on an entirely different tone.

 

“I say stop worrying and calling about refunds and put your next sailings on the map, and show these shareholders that we're here and ready to sail after this lockdown.

 

Warranted or not, some took it personal and felt the need to respond, which has now sadly led to personal attacks. Take away that 2nd sentence (go back and look) and this thread takes on an entirely different life. I think we can all agree no harm was intended and we need to move on.

 

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I'm just wondering why it's a business model that relies on me paying around $11,000 in three weeks time, for a cruise that cannot happen (Med, July 2020) simply in order to wait another 45 days to get my cancelled cruise refund when that cancellation won't even come until mid June based on the current monthly cycle of cancellations. Well, I can see sense for Celebrity because Celebrity will get to keep my NRD (not offered to Aussies when we booked) on a cruise they know now won't happen, if I cancel.
 

There is nothing on earth that I want to do to help Celebrity because they are using passengers to fund their current Cash issue. 
 

Edited by Pushka
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I have read a lot of these topics in the last couple of weeks due mostly from staying home and being bored. I find that there are two major reasons for all of the complaints that we are all reading.

a)  Fear

     As more time goes by we fear that there is a small possibility that we may get no money back at all,  that makes people say  things that you normally would not hear from them. The cruise lines were not prepared for this virus,  our countries were not prepared for this, the whole world was not prepared,  period.  So, our place of work, the cruise lines, government, none of this is their fault.

b) Lack of information

     I honestly believe that if Mr. Bayley came out tomorrow and stated that they are trying to get through this the best way possible. That he understands that people are in a hurry to get their money refunded and that while its going to take between  30  -  90 days to process the refunds that he quarantees ALL customers that qualify for a refund will get it during that period.

If that was done I think it would satisfy 95% of customers and make this terrible situation bearable.  ( The other 5% will still complain, they just can't help it)

 

 

Edited by charmed101
mistakes
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2 hours ago, Pushka said:

I'm just wondering why it's a business model that relies on me paying around $11,000 in three weeks time, for a cruise that cannot happen (Med, July 2020) simply in order to wait another 45 days to get my cancelled cruise refund when that cancellation won't even come until mid June based on the current monthly cycle of cancellations. Well, I can see sense for Celebrity because Celebrity will get to keep my NRD (not offered to Aussies when we booked) on a cruise they know now won't happen, if I cancel.
 

There is nothing on earth that I want to do to help Celebrity because they are using passengers to fund their current Cash issue. 
 

You are in essence floating them a no interest loan until they cancel and then process the refund!  

 

I think  most cruisers had no clue  ( or concern) that deposits were used for ongoing operations without a rainy day plan!  The bubble has burst....

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We are booking our first cruise in AquaClass Feb. 2022.  With all of these cancelled vacations I think that there is going to continue to be some demand.  

 

Waiting to book another for next year until the ships start cruising again.

Edited by NMTraveller
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10 hours ago, hcat said:

You are in essence floating them a no interest loan until they cancel and then process the refund!  

 

I think  most cruisers had no clue  ( or concern) that deposits were used for ongoing operations without a rainy day plan!  The bubble has burst....

hcat- In a way this is like a pyramid scheme.  The cash collected by Celebrity from those of us paying deposits now is being used to refund people owed their deposits.  The cycle continues.

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