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Are we the only one who hasn't received refund?


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On 4/15/2020 at 9:16 AM, jknc said:

60 days for a refund is asinine.


I hope y’all remember that next time you consider booking a cruise.


It could be worse. Some of us booked with NCL and we have to wait 90 days! Talk about asinine!  
 

There is a new thread on the Norwegian board from someone who did a credit card dispute and won.  He did not have to wait long at all before his bank credited his money back.

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56 minutes ago, jennmaybe said:


It could be worse. Some of us booked with NCL and we have to wait 90 days! Talk about asinine!  
 

There is a new thread on the Norwegian board from someone who did a credit card dispute and won.  He did not have to wait long at all before his bank credited his money back.

The banks most of the time will credit his dispute back right away so interest stops accruing, while it is being investigated however if it turns out it was a valid charge they will put it back on his card and charge the interest he should have been charging. The merchant in this case RCCL/NCL has 30 days to prove that it was a valid charge. Now will NCL/RCCL just say this money was supposed to be refunded and just not fight the fight not sure. 

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10 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

Can you  explain what you mean about backlogging the system? One shouldn't have to do with the other. How will it affect someone who is just waiting and not filing a dispute?  I can see it holding up the person who submitted the dispute but not the person who is just waiting.

So let's just say for example RCCL has maybe 10 people doing refunds/accounting (hence why its taking so long), not sure just making up numbers. If a person files a credit card dispute then why that person from RCCL is investigating the dispute (RCCL only has 30 days to argue its case), you now only have 9 people doing refunds. Say it takes an hour to do both (investigate validity of charge and/or process a refund), so now every person that does a dispute is taking a spot away from someones refund getting processed. So say everyone that is waiting for a refund does this, then there is a possibility where there are days that refunds are getting processed, hence the system is getting backlogged even further. 

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1 minute ago, figment7 said:

So let's just say for example RCCL has maybe 10 people doing refunds/accounting (hence why its taking so long), not sure just making up numbers. If a person files a credit card dispute then why that person from RCCL is investigating the dispute (RCCL only has 30 days to argue its case), you now only have 9 people doing refunds. Say it takes an hour to do both (investigate validity of charge and/or process a refund), so now every person that does a dispute is taking a spot away from someones refund getting processed. So say everyone that is waiting for a refund does this, then there is a possibility where there are days that refunds are getting processed, hence the system is getting backlogged even further. 

I like your optimism.  This example assumes RCCL is actually processing refunds, which they are not.  The only refunds received have been computer generated from excursions, drink packages, etc.  Refunds for cruise cancellations have not and I fear will not ever be received.

 

Moreover, if these refunds were actually processed they would be credited to the original card used.  So if RCCL is actually planning on refunding these cruises they would simply not dispute the charge back.  Theoretically less work for them, check that one off the list and keep going.

 

The fact that Celebrity cruisers and RCCL cruisers are all having the same experience with these refunds however makes me worry that refunds are not coming.  I hope I am wrong!

 

 

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1 minute ago, kajunkel225 said:

I like your optimism.  This example assumes RCCL is actually processing refunds, which they are not.  The only refunds received have been computer generated from excursions, drink packages, etc.  Refunds for cruise cancellations have not and I fear will not ever be received.

 

Moreover, if these refunds were actually processed they would be credited to the original card used.  So if RCCL is actually planning on refunding these cruises they would simply not dispute the charge back.  Theoretically less work for them, check that one off the list and keep going.

 

The fact that Celebrity cruisers and RCCL cruisers are all having the same experience with these refunds however makes me worry that refunds are not coming.  I hope I am wrong!

 

 

I think refunds are coming I think RCCL is just trying to hang on to the money as long as possible (I get it from their side, I get it from the consumer side), hoping they dont go bankrupt since I own stock and also awaiting refund. I understand people need the money now due to changing circumstance (job loss, hours cut etc), however I spent that money already in my head so when it comes back then cool. 

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So Royal cancelled 5 cruises of ours and we decided to do the future cruise credit for the cruise fare at 125% (DOn't think we will ever be able to use them but that is another story)

...but the real reason for this post is:

  we are supposed to get back actual refund credits TO  the credit card for

1. The port fees (I know smallish dollars but all the same)No $ came back here 

2. The Air2Sea bigger $ for the Air purchased through Royal. They have cancelled the flight but no $ have come back. 

 

We have seen neither of these. We booked a L O N G time ago so past the dispute period on the CC.

 

Anyone else in this configuration of cancels?? 

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Deposits account for over double RCCL's assets.  Even if they liquidate their assets it will not cover the funds needed if only half of the deposits require refunds.  The majority of those deposits represent those payments closest to sailing and those currently seeking refunds.

 

My loss on this will be $10,000.  A $10,000 loss with nothing to show for it hurts no matter what one's economic circumstance is.

 

rcl stock.jpg

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I completely agree with you @kajunkel225

 

The situation at the cruise lines is no doubt grave.

 

I would think that the amount of total deposits that are due refunds from either cancellations by the company or requests under the cruise with confidence program is less than half those numbers however.

 

Also not reflected in the numbers is all the cash CCL just raised in the bond and equity markets. If any company survives it will be CCL (and it hurts for me to say that because I am loyal to royal - but maybe less so after this nightmare). 

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1 hour ago, figment7 said:

The banks most of the time will credit his dispute back right away so interest stops accruing, while it is being investigated however if it turns out it was a valid charge they will put it back on his card and charge the interest he should have been charging. The merchant in this case RCCL/NCL has 30 days to prove that it was a valid charge. Now will NCL/RCCL just say this money was supposed to be refunded and just not fight the fight not sure. 

 

Not the impression I got it all. It sounds like his card has been paid in full, so he is not accruing any interest on it. He even included the response he got from the credit card company.

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I don't see how the delayed refund strategy is going to be sustainable much longer. More folks will open up credit card disputes. Card companies can revoke merchant accounts to those businesses with high chargeback rates. Going to get to the point where you have to use cash to book a cruise. I don't think many would be comfortable with that. 

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as an update to my post yesterday.    

1) got generic email back from executive order saying sorry -- we are busy but refund is coming.  asked more questions for details and info in writing but got nothing back.

 

2) called 800 # service this morning and asked agent to tell me what he sees on each reservation - he explained that April 6th date on my cxld Freedom cruise is just the date my refund was given to Accounting Dept as approved to be refunded...... this has nothing to do with processing my credit back to my credit card.  And my Empress deposit refund ( cxld 3/24)  was showing April 13th as approved to be refunded to Accounting dept

 

3) called Capital One and asked a lot of questions -- he explained that refunds are posted within 24 hours so there is no way Royal processed anything to them on April 6th as it would have shown within a day.  ( see pt 2 above - the refund was not processed yet to the credit card company just processed internally within Royal )  Then I spoke with disputes and they explained it is not worth doing as it takes them 90 days to seek resolution back from Royal before they finalize things -- yes they would credit me immediately but it creates more chaos as already discussed on this board.

 

4) I asked my TA to get me something in writing with my reservation #'s, amounts and dates of return for my 4 reservation #'s  - 2 Freedom March 2020 and 2 Empress May 2021 and she said they won't put anything in writing but they assured her they would return my Empress deposit in another week or so and my Freedom money by May.

 

I think they would have been better off telling everyone 90 days and surprising us with 60 days on the refunds.

It is better to over deliver then over promise.

 

For now the entire way they are handling it has disgusted me.   After 23 cruises, my time with RCCL is over.

 

 I just emailed my TA again to please cancel my Oasis refundable deposit for Oct 2020.  It is only $400 for 3 cabins and it will probably take til July to get that money back but mentally I am done. 

 

 I just can't do business with a company that treats me poorly.  I need honest communication even if it is bad news.. not sorry we can tell you stuff on the phone but we won't put it in writing. .....to me that is shady.

 

Ironically enough -- my plumber over charged me last week -- I emailed them on Sat - they checked the bill, confirmed the overpayment (sales tax calculation error )  and said they would process a refund -- it came yesterday.. 3 business days

 

 

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34 minutes ago, coaster said:

I don't see how the delayed refund strategy is going to be sustainable much longer. More folks will open up credit card disputes. Card companies can revoke merchant accounts to those businesses with high chargeback rates. Going to get to the point where you have to use cash to book a cruise. I don't think many would be comfortable with that. 

"Card companies can revoke merchant accounts to those businesses with high chargeback rates". This may? be difficult since Royal has it's own VISA signature cc.

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6 hours ago, BP99 said:

"Card companies can revoke merchant accounts to those businesses with high chargeback rates". This may? be difficult since Royal has it's own VISA signature cc.

 

The card you speak of is issued by Bank of America. Royal needs to be honest and proactive in communication to limit disputes. Videos being released just for travel agents to put a human perspective on this from the corporate office is not enough.  A video from corporate that addresses refund delays to those of us with recently cancelled cruises would be a main priority if I was an executive with Royal in Miami.

Edited by coaster
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I called RC to check on my refund just for the heck of it so I could contribute something productive to these threads. Below is what I was told. 
 

I cancelled my cruise before final payment, on March 24th. I was told my refund would come as 2 separate payments and would take 7-10 days. Having read these boards, I knew to expect a wait of up to 90 days. 
 

After speaking with RC today, I am now being told that my refund will come in SIX separate payments, not 2. The first 2 payments were “processed” on March 24th (the day I cancelled), and the other 4 were processed on April 13th (20 days after I cancelled, and 10 days after their original estimate of when I’d actually receive the money). 
 

When I asked how many days it would take to actually receive the money, he sheepishly said he didn’t know, but to expect “probably 30 days from when the refunds were processed.” He was apologetic and sounded kind of embarrassed, and I told him I understood and not to worry because I wasn’t calling to be upset, I was simply curious.

 

I’m personally in no rush to get my money back. It was only for our deposit and 2 drink packages. It was spent money and I don’t need it anytime soon. Preferably I’ll get it before they go bankrupt, but other than that, I’m just chillin’. I understand though, that others have a lot more money they are risking losing, and have different financial circumstances that leave them in more of a bind, so, take that info for what it’s worth, as refunds sound like they are taking almost 30 days just to be processed, and another to actually be sent. That’s 60 days.
 

I’ll report back when I actually see some money pop up on my credit card as a follow up in case people who cancelled after I did are wondering how long it took. 
 

 

Edited by ARandomTraveler
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When I asked how many days it would take to actually receive the money, he sheepishly said he didn’t know, but to expect “probably 30 days from when the refunds were processed.” 

 

Sad....   Has to be a nightmare for those employees answering the phones at Royal as to why refunds and credits are being delayed.

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31 minutes ago, coaster said:

When I asked how many days it would take to actually receive the money, he sheepishly said he didn’t know, but to expect “probably 30 days from when the refunds were processed.” 

 

Sad....   Has to be a nightmare for those employees answering the phones at Royal as to why refunds and credits are being delayed.

And also for whoever is trying to cross reference payments to refunds. How do you turn 2 payments into 6, and reconcile that on the books later? 

Edited by ARandomTraveler
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10 minutes ago, ARandomTraveler said:

And also for whoever is trying to cross reference payments to refunds. How do you turn 2 payments into 6, and settle that on the books later? 

Honestly after booking a cruise with Royal Caribbean and comparing the invoice to a Celebrity or Princess cruise invoice, Royal Caribbean can really complicate simple mathematics. Sounds like they are taking your total and making monthly payments to you like you are one of their creditors and not a customer.

Edited by Iamcruzin
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Called our TA and they said RC is now saying up to 90 day’s. From what I read yesterday by another poster that at least with Amex you only have 60 day’s after cruise sail date to dispute charges. So I called to dispute charges today with my Amex. They promised 30 days in writing. We did at least get drink package etc back. Not playing around, I will more and likely never cruise them again. Friends that chose FCC are still waiting on port fees back 

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Just now, ARandomTraveler said:

I still can’t believe ANYone is choosing FCC, when given a choice.

Some might just be bailing out before RC cancels their cruise and are forced to take the FCC because of NRD. Anyone who is considering the 125% FCC in lieu of Cash if given the choice needs to read that FCC thread with all of the issues that brings up. I just hope that everyone gets their cash or FCC whichever they chose.

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3 minutes ago, ARandomTraveler said:

I still can’t believe ANYone is choosing FCC, when given a choice.


Guess what... we chose the FCC.

If you have another cruise already booked with deposit paid, but Final payment is not until October, it makes sense to just have the FCC sitting there. If RC goes bust, it doesn't matter if you're waiting on a cash refund or sitting on FCC.... you go on the list of creditors hoping to get some part of your money back. If this silly situation is still going on in October, we put the FCC on our already booked cruise, and our financial situation has not changed.

My concern at the moment is that we have not seen the Port fees, nor have we seen the refunds for Cruise Planner purchases.

 

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36 minutes ago, jillgunter said:

Called our TA and they said RC is now saying up to 90 day’s. From what I read yesterday by another poster that at least with Amex you only have 60 day’s after cruise sail date to dispute charges. So I called to dispute charges today with my Amex. They promised 30 days in writing. We did at least get drink package etc back. Not playing around, I will more and likely never cruise them again. Friends that chose FCC are still waiting on port fees back 

Up to 90 days now for a refund is RC's  response now? How can this phony and deceitful delay in refunds continue?

Edited by coaster
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11 minutes ago, Balsam12 said:


Guess what... we chose the FCC.

If you have another cruise already booked with deposit paid, but Final payment is not until October, it makes sense to just have the FCC sitting there. If RC goes bust, it doesn't matter if you're waiting on a cash refund or sitting on FCC.... you go on the list of creditors hoping to get some part of your money back. If this silly situation is still going on in October, we put the FCC on our already booked cruise, and our financial situation has not changed.

My concern at the moment is that we have not seen the Port fees, nor have we seen the refunds for Cruise Planner purchases.

 

I’d rather sit on the cash than be holding onto an FCC. You could get the cash back, then hold onto it in the event you decide to pay off your October cruise. If October cruise doesn’t happen, you’ll only have to worry about getting cash back (or FCC) for one cruise, instead of being stuck with 2. 
 

If October is cancelled, you can’t turn around and get the cash back for the FCC you’re already holding, and now you’re stuck with a bunch of worthless paper. In my opinion.

 

That being said, I’m glad some people are willing to leave their money on hold because it does help keep the company from falling apart. I’d like to keep cruising in the future and I don’t want RC going under. I just personally wouldn’t take the risk.

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6 minutes ago, coaster said:

Up to 90 days now for a refund is RC's  response now? How can this phony and deceitful delay in refunds continue?


I don’t think there’s any legal rule for how long it takes to give a refund. If there is I didn’t find one with my quick google search. 

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9 hours ago, jennmaybe said:

 

Not the impression I got it all. It sounds like his card has been paid in full, so he is not accruing any interest on it. He even included the response he got from the credit card company.

Could you link to that thread?

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