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Just dispute the charge already!


Waquoit
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15 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

My experience has varied by Credit Card provider. With my VISA MBNA card (owned now by Lloyds) I was recently told I needed to write to the company and give them 14 days to pay, a kind of "letter before action", once I could document I have done this they would start the chargeback.

That's what happened in my previous dispute. That's what I was expecting. But that's not what happened. And I'm sure it wasn't because AMEX thinks I'm special. 

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I suppose you feel you are more important than the other 100,000+( this number is probably way low) refund request per month NCL is working on. Keep in mind all the lines are now saying 90 days just because of the shear numbers.  No it isin't a single click like everyone would like to believe. How long when you take something back does it take the clerk to process your refund, 5 minutes? OK so that is 12 refunds per hour per person time 8 hours per day is 96 refunds...let's make it 100. You continue with the math there is a lot of time involved.

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1 minute ago, phillyguy31 said:

I suppose you feel you are more important than the other 100,000+( this number is probably way low) refund request per month NCL is working on. Keep in mind all the lines are now saying 90 days just because of the shear numbers.  No it isin't a single click like everyone would like to believe. How long when you take something back does it take the clerk to process your refund, 5 minutes? OK so that is 12 refunds per hour per person time 8 hours per day is 96 refunds...let's make it 100. You continue with the math there is a lot of time involved.

 

Aw, crap...no one said there was a math test this morning.  I need more coffee first.

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15 minutes ago, phillyguy31 said:

suppose you feel you are more important than the other 100,000+

The argument is for everyone not for just 1 person. Most feel the process is too long. Are you saying you work for NCL and no there programming to know without any doubt it’s not just a click of the button?

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1 hour ago, BirdTravels said:

Bottom line is considered a frivolous chargeback. A chargeback accuses the merchant (NCL) of a fraudulent charge. You are, in fact, committing fraud because NCL has, in writing at time of refund request, promised to repay you in a specified timeframe. 

 

NCL can and has blacklisted people for frivolous chargebacks. You may say "that's o.k., I never want to sail on NCL again"... but forever is a long time to be blacklisted.

 

Your bank is now taking time and expense to investigate the claim. Your bank, finding out that it is a frivolous chargeback, may consider you a risk. And may consider terminating or downgrading your account. Forever is a long time. 

 

It is NOT a free roll. The roll could come with consequences just to get your refund a few weeks earlier. 

 

It's not a 'frivolous chargeback'.  It's a valid chargeback for services paid for and not provided.  Nothing about that is 'frivolous'.  It's also NOT accusing the merchant of 'fraud'.  It's saying 'Hey, I paid for a service and the Merchant has told me they cannot provide the service and will refund my money, but they are going to hold on to it for a while before they do'.  That's not fraud, it's just not reasonable to some people, and if their card company agrees, then they get their money back.

 

I've got a cruise upcoming on NCL that I fully expect to be cancelled.  I'll file a chargeback with AMEX as well if I don't get refunded fairly quickly (within 30 days of the date of the cruise).  If NCL blacklists me, I'm ok with that.  This would have been my first cruise with them, and I am out nothing if they don't let me cruise with them again.

 

And AMEX is its own bank.  They don't partner with other banks.  It's not a 'frivolous chargeback', and if you have a credit card that considers your asking for your money back for a service you did not receive grounds to terminate or downgrade your account, then you might reconsider YOUR relationship with that bank.  There are plenty of them out there.

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Waquoit, thank you for your post.

I don't understand the reluctance of some to dispute the charge via their credit card.

You have given them the information.  

 

BTW we did the same with Celebrity and a BOA.  Got the refund credited the next day.  

With the words ....in BIG letters......RESOLVED.

Another person on Celebrity had several cruises and hence a lot of money to be refunded.  They asked for a check, which they just received.  😀

 

Our refund request was done over the phone.  We explained everything, including the fact that Celebrity cancelled the cruise, they were supposed to issue a confirming email of our request for refund and that they didn't, that they told us a refund would be coming in 30 days and that we were approaching that time but also approaching the time limit from BOA to dispute the charge.

If they felt this was a "frivolous" complaint, wouldn't we have been told then?

 

 

Edited by mafig
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Post from another thread from an actual programmer.

pokerpro5   

I am a former systems programmer.

 

I can tell you that the refunds could all be completed in days, rather than weeks or months, if NCL wanted them to be.  It is extremely trivial to modify the system to do this (if the capability isn't already there, which it likely is!)

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The system is there if it is a ship wide refund, it isn't everyone got FCC then to get your refund you submit the request by form. That means the refund must be done manually per reservation number and possibly by person if they paid separately.  A person needs to verify the info and probably due to the amount it may need a supervisor to approve it. I highly doubt that a system was in place to handle this kind of disaster, every cruise and every ship. Would anyone even consider this a possibility? No I don't work for NCL and yes I will have a refund coming to me as well, but I tend to look at things the way they are and not what I think they should be to suit me.

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"No, because they already credited his account. He's got his money."  He doesn't REALLY have his money now. He won't know until 6/24 if the money he got is his to keep or if they will be taking it back.  So it's the same 90 day wait as the rest of us.

 

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3 hours ago, MechE31 said:

The issue with this for a lot of people is the deposits. My deposit was paid in 2018. For those that make incremental payments, some may be outside the dispute window.

 

service is for future date so you can dispute.. I have on my AMEX too.

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36 minutes ago, NittanyCruise said:

No, because AMEX expressly stated that they could claw back the money. Until OP is free and clear he doesn't have anything. 

 

True, I have not yet moved any money from my Amex account into my into my personal account as of yet. AMEX has a few hoops they make you jump through, they are a business, too. But please tell me with what justification will this "claw back" will ever happen? Amex knows all about NCL's existing refund policy and they charged back my $4K in two days anyway. They clearly have new standard policy established. The onus is now on NCL, what will be the basis of their protest? That they want to hold on my money even longer because they said so? If NCL's 90-day policy carried any water with AMEX, I highly doubt they would have moved on my dispute so quickly. It makes no sense for them to credit me (and thousands of others), just to turn around and "claw back " the money later when no facts will change. I bought 2 cruises, cruises cancelled, case closed. Pay me.

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1 hour ago, phillyguy31 said:

The system is there if it is a ship wide refund, it isn't everyone got FCC then to get your refund you submit the request by form. That means the refund must be done manually per reservation number and possibly by person if they paid separately.  A person needs to verify the info and probably due to the amount it may need a supervisor to approve it. I highly doubt that a system was in place to handle this kind of disaster, every cruise and every ship. Would anyone even consider this a possibility? No I don't work for NCL and yes I will have a refund coming to me as well, but I tend to look at things the way they are and not what I think they should be to suit me.

 

That's how it SHOULD be - it should be 'Hey everyone, sorry we had to cancel your cruise.  We are going to refund 100% of your fee/deposit/pre-purchases to date.  However, if you prefer cruise credit, we are offering 125% cruise credit with a 20% booking discount for passengers on canceled cruises.  Please contact your Vacation Planner or Travel Agent within 48 hours to begin that process, otherwise your refund will be processed back to your original form of payment automatically'

 

Rather than 'hey, we're going to give you 125% cruise credit and 20% booking discount, but if you'd rather have your money back, fill out this form we will make available to you in 2 weeks and you have 2 weeks from the time it's available to fill it out and then sometime after 90 days we'll process your refund'

 

Then they can just batch refunds and handle those who want FCC as the exception, rather than FCC is the rule and refunds are the exception.

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3 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Bottom line is considered a frivolous chargeback. A chargeback accuses the merchant (NCL) of a fraudulent charge. You are, in fact, committing fraud because NCL has, in writing at time of refund request, promised to repay you in a specified timeframe. 

 

NCL can and has blacklisted people for frivolous chargebacks. You may say "that's o.k., I never want to sail on NCL again"... but forever is a long time to be blacklisted.

 

Your bank is now taking time and expense to investigate the claim. Your bank, finding out that it is a frivolous chargeback, may consider you a risk. And may consider terminating or downgrading your account. Forever is a long time. 

 

It is NOT a free roll. The roll could come with consequences just to get your refund a few weeks earlier. 

Bottom line, ITS YOUR MONEY. You didn’t cancel, the merchant didn’t provide the goods...Full stop

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I would agree however any company not just the cruise lines would prefer to give you credit rather than refund you payment so they make it easier and give you additional incentive to take the credit. If memory serves me they refunded the money if they had to cancel a cruise and offered a OBC as well. As we all have heard that it is a different world right now and for anyone to have the same expectation as before this all began is fooling themselves.

 

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1 minute ago, Trousersandrie said:

Bottom line, ITS YOUR MONEY. You didn’t cancel, the merchant didn’t provide the goods...Full stop

 No one is saying it isn't your money and you absolutely deserve it. What IS being said is who determines what is a reasonable amount of time to wait. I would agree with you that 30 days seems to be fair in normal situations, but nothing is normal about this. The other question I have is how long did you wait until you asked for the charge back?  Did you wait for the 30 days or just because they said 90 days you didn't even wait a day.

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1 hour ago, phillyguy31 said:

The system is there if it is a ship wide refund, it isn't everyone got FCC then to get your refund you submit the request by form. That means the refund must be done manually per reservation number and possibly by person if they paid separately.  A person needs to verify the info and probably due to the amount it may need a supervisor to approve it. I highly doubt that a system was in place to handle this kind of disaster, every cruise and every ship. Would anyone even consider this a possibility? No I don't work for NCL and yes I will have a refund coming to me as well, but I tend to look at things the way they are and not what I think they should be to suit me.

 

Then why aren't we hearing of a few people getting refunds.  Some last week?  A few more this week?

 

It's been weeks and we're hearing nothing.

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I always try to resolve any cancellations before change back, if a company ignores my calls in my view I have no choice, just today some major virus protection co. Tried to remove funds from a CC, immediately I informed the CC co, they took a record of my call, and said if it not resolved by 01/05 we will act on your behalf, it’s easy.

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Your rights under Section 75

Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the credit card company is jointly and severally liable for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the retailer or trader.

This means it is just as responsible as the retailer or trader for the goods or service supplied, allowing you to also put your claim to the credit card company.

You don't have to reach a stalemate with the retailer or trader before you can contact your credit card provider - you can make a claim to both the retailer and credit card provider simultaneously, although you can't recover your losses from both.

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4 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Bottom line is considered a frivolous chargeback. A chargeback accuses the merchant (NCL) of a fraudulent charge. You are, in fact, committing fraud because NCL has, in writing at time of refund request, promised to repay you in a specified timeframe. 

 

What a load of crap.  I told my bank exactly what happened, including NCL's 90 day refund intention and words similar to "I don't want to wait 90 days".  I never accused NCL of fraud and I never said anything wrong or committed any fraud.    You have a hell of a lot of nerve accusing people who are doing perfectly legal things of fraud just because you don't like what they did.

 

2 hours ago, NittanyCruise said:

No, because AMEX expressly stated that they could claw back the money. Until OP is free and clear he doesn't have anything. 

When my card bill is due later this month, I will pay my bank some amount less than what I would if I didn't do the charge back.  I'll take that difference and move it to my savings.  At that point I have the money.  I may have to eventually pay it back, but I have it.  That fact is indisputable. (for the record, my bank ha already closed my case)  

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4 hours ago, NittanyCruise said:

If this works, I would expect NCL to add you to the "Do Not Sail" list and not allow you to sail with them again. It's happened before... https://www.elliott.org/blog/do-not-sail-list-banned-from-cruising/

 

Not saying that you're already planning on doing that, but I figured someone should say it just in case someone does this inadvertently and plans to use NCL in the future. 

I'm prepared to be added to the do not sail list, then. NCLs loss is Princess, Carnival,  Royal, and MSCs gain. 

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