Credit card dispute worked

[bitemyfly]

I put every purchase possible on a credit card. It doesn’t matter if it’s 1.00 or 10,000.00 .. I love the points/ perk .. 

if I purchased something from a provider, they stated they couldn’t deliver  but would need 90days  to refund ..I would not hesitate to contact the card company. I also understand when I use my card .. that all refunds will go back to the card knowing that I would then have a credit with card issuer.  The 90 days are not dues to a technical issues from the merchant banks , processor  or provider ( CCL) . Card reversals is one click, And for large merchants it would be done in bulk. 
The 90 days “to process “ is from ccl.. they are not in a rush to refund that much in one click.. 

if it was me , I rather have a credit on a visa .. rather than a cruise company 

[Knights on the Beach]

4 hours ago, Shynook11 said:

I was still getting “ get ready for your cruise” emails until last week For our 3/14 sail date.  

 

You were getting emails for your upcoming cruise - 3 weeks past the sail date?  That doesn't make any sense.  I got those emails up until the (canceled) sail date of 4/10 but not afterwards.

[Shynook11]

5 minutes ago, cruisemom2 said:

 

You were getting emails for your upcoming cruise - 3 weeks past the sail date?  That doesn't make any sense.  I got those emails up until the (canceled) sail date of 4/10 but not afterwards.

Yep I was.  Obviously a computer glitch. 

[TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail]

21 minutes ago, bitemyfly said:

 

I put every purchase possible on a credit card

 

I’m starting to think the gift cards I have been buying pre-virus were a mistake.  Obviously 20/20 (lol year 2020) hindsight.  

[resistk]

Here's the rub, usually you only have 60 days from the date of the credit card statement to file a dispute.  The cruise lines are now saying 90 days or more for refunds.  If you wait past that 60 days you lose your only recourse to get your money if the cruise line run out of money or delays even further.  The problem is entirely self inflicted by Carnival and other lines by stalling on the refunds.

Edited April 19, 2020 by resistk

[ano]

43 minutes ago, resistk said:

Here's the rub, usually you only have 60 days from the date of the credit card statement to file a dispute.  The cruise lines are now saying 90 days or more for refunds.  If you wait past that 60 days you lose your only recourse to get your money if the cruise line run out of money or delays even further.  The problem is entirely self inflicted by Carnival and other lines by stalling on the refunds.

Generally credit card companies give you until 60 days AFTER the original services were to be provided. If your cruise was to run from May 1 to May 14th, then you would have until 60 days from May 14th.

 

Also, reversing charges with a credit card company should be a last resort. You are the real "customer" to credit card companies, so they will likely be on your side, all things being equal. BUT reversing charges is a very strong matter to the merchant.  They likely will no do business with you in the future, and they still have the ability to send your account to collections. 

[glrounds]

18 hours ago, Luv2cruz1000 said:

I will likely be attacked for a response to this. I would have never considered going through a credit card dispute until now! There is no answers as to when to get a refund and when out thousands of dollars....its a thought. Carnival does not give any straight answers as to when. I know the telephone attendants do not know, but Carnival knows and could communicate what the hold up is.

 

 

It's obvious to me. Carnival is in a huge CASH BIND right now. And the longer they can hang on to your money before the credit card companies DEMAND refund or the government calls them on it, they will do it. Operating under the "squeaky wheels gets the most grease" principle, I would be bugging them constantly, always insisting to speak to a supervisor, etc., sending them copies of complaints I'm filing with the CLIA and the local newspaper, making my name on their list become a royal pain. I would let them know that after 34 cruises, if they don't want my business after this is all over, you can bet their competition certainly does.

Edited April 19, 2020 by glrounds

[Joebucks]

11 hours ago, TooManyWakeUpsTilWeSail said:

I’m starting to think the gift cards I have been buying pre-virus were a mistake.  Obviously 20/20 (lol year 2020) hindsight.  

 

Agreed. I often grab a few for onboard spending, but never to pay for a full fare. My Chase card gives me 4.5% back towards travel and travel insurance, which is often already more than a 10% savings.

 

While charging back is an absolutely last resort for me, I would much rather have those protections (amongst others) than a few percent cash back.

[jimbo5544]

9 hours ago, resistk said:

Here's the rub, usually you only have 60 days from the date of the credit card statement to file a dispute.  The cruise lines are now saying 90 days or more for refunds.  If you wait past that 60 days you lose your only recourse to get your money if the cruise line run out of money or delays even further. 

Are you sure on your comment, may want to double check that.  I called my cc on something else and asked the very same question, they disagreed with your take.  But what do they know, it is only their business.  

Edited April 19, 2020 by jimbo5544

[resistk]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Are you sure on your comment, may want to double check that.  I called my cc on something else and asked the very same question, they disagreed with your take.  But what do they know, it is only their business.  

 

Which part?  The 60- days after the statement?  BOA won't let you go back more than 60 days usually.  I think it is up to the card issuer.  I have some deposits over a year old, I would like dispute, but BOA said too old. 

[resistk]

10 hours ago, ano said:

Generally credit card companies give you until 60 days AFTER the original services were to be provided. If your cruise was to run from May 1 to May 14th, then you would have until 60 days from May 14th.

 

Also, reversing charges with a credit card company should be a last resort. You are the real "customer" to credit card companies, so they will likely be on your side, all things being equal. BUT reversing charges is a very strong matter to the merchant.  They likely will no do business with you in the future, and they still have the ability to send your account to collections. 

 

Thanks, I will try again the with that info, I have some substantial deposits I was writing off.  Who cares?  Another cruise line will gladly take my cash if they ever can cruise safely again.

Edited April 19, 2020 by resistk

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, resistk said:

 

Which part?  The 60- days after the statement?  BOA won't let you go back more than 60 days usually.  I think it is up to the card issuer.  I have some deposits over a year old, I would like dispute, but BOA said too old. 

I would call again.  

[ptrician]

12 hours ago, ano said:

Generally credit card companies give you until 60 days AFTER the original services were to be provided. If your cruise was to run from May 1 to May 14th, then you would have until 60 days from May 14th.

 

Also, reversing charges with a credit card company should be a last resort. You are the real "customer" to credit card companies, so they will likely be on your side, all things being equal. BUT reversing charges is a very strong matter to the merchant.  They likely will no do business with you in the future, and they still have the ability to send your account to collections. 

This is the information I also received from BOA. And if they gave us the credit and Cunard or Carnival ( which we are waiting on refunds from both). Ever does refund us then they will reverse the credit even if it is 90 days from now. So I would be careful how you spend that credit.

Edited April 19, 2020 by ptrician

[resistk]

1 hour ago, ptrician said:

This is the information I also received from BOA. And if they gave us the credit and Cunard or Carnival ( which we are waiting on refunds from both). Ever does refund us then they will reverse the credit even if it is 90 days from now. So I would be careful how you spend that credit.

 

I just want to make sure I don't lose the dispute option in case things go south fast for the cruise lines.  I have read there are a ton of lawsuits in the works and that may cause issues.  Bloomberg Business Week also savaged CCL and that has got to hurt. And another waive of COVID or some more bad news would wreck further havoc on the industry.  Best not to be too optimistic.

[Shynook11]

18 hours ago, resistk said:

Here's the rub, usually you only have 60 days from the date of the credit card statement to file a dispute.  The cruise lines are now saying 90 days or more for refunds.  If you wait past that 60 days you lose your only recourse to get your money if the cruise line run out of money or delays even further.  The problem is entirely self inflicted by Carnival and other lines by stalling on the refunds.

Actually we paid out cruise in full past the 60 day window and our bank  honored the services not received dispute without hesitation.  I was worried about that.

[resistk]

1 hour ago, Shynook11 said:

Actually we paid out cruise in full past the 60 day window and our bank  honored the services not received dispute without hesitation.  I was worried about that.

 

I am glad I posted, I had written off my initial deposit.

[Doggielover68]

20 hours ago, resistk said:

Here's the rub, usually you only have 60 days from the date of the credit card statement to file a dispute.  The cruise lines are now saying 90 days or more for refunds.  If you wait past that 60 days you lose your only recourse to get your money if the cruise line run out of money or delays even further.  The problem is entirely self inflicted by Carnival and other lines by stalling on the refunds.

My guess is that they simply don't have the funds to give. After taking out a massive loan, refunds are starting to be processed. You have to remember that they still have bills to pay and they are losing a ton on lost on board revenue. 

 

I still think all of the money will be returned, just not as soon as people want it. 

 

I used to work for an investment company that handled 401k accounts. When people wanted money, there was a process to getting distributed. Large corporations don't just keep all of their money in the bank. It's tied up in investments, overhead, assets, etc. 

[hdmaninmb]

9 hours ago, Doggielover68 said:

...I used to work for an investment company that handled 401k accounts. When people wanted money, there was a process to getting distributed. Large corporations don't just keep all of their money in the bank. It's tied up in investments, overhead, assets, etc....

...You have to remember that they still have bills to pay and they are losing a ton on lost on board revenue. Right, and I am one of their "bills"/creditors, i.e., my dollars are on their books as "unearned revenue", and I would prefer to be paid just like their other "bills".  Whether they are losing revenue is no concern to me- I am owed money.  

 

Right, but this is totally different.  First, I'm sure your investment company that handled 401(k) accounts wasn't facing an imminent bankruptcy.  Second, Carnival just acquired huge amounts of cash (Billions, with a "B") by offering more stock shares, issuing bonds, etc.  That isn't even counting the $1.353B in "Cash and Short-Term Investments" they had at the end of the last quarter (11/30/19-02/29/20). They have PLENTY of cash on hand, don't be fooled.  I get it that processing refunds might take more time because of the sheer volume of requests, but it certainly isn't because of a shortage of cash.  Probably more like how they choose to prioritize their cash. 

 

There is a lot of misinformed guidance being posted in here, along the lines of "just wait until they give you your money back". That is a fools errand when you consider the financial position that Carnival is currently in. 

 

Depending on who you ask, or which analyst you believe, Carnival has about 12+/- months of liquidity to stay afloat, with all the boats parked.  What if that number is actually 3 months, 6 months, 9 months?  Do you know what happens when they can't fund their debts?  Bankruptcy, restructuring, etc.  What if they use the nuclear option well before they run out of liquidity? In my cursory research, companies are filing for bankruptcy BEFORE they are actually out of cash (just as Frontier recently did).  I'm no bankruptcy attorney, but in my research, once the bk trigger is pulled, no one is getting paid until the court says who gets what.

 

Do you know who is last in line to get paid if they do file bk?  I don't know, but it is probably either you and me, or the shareholders... but I'm sure the bond holders and other creditors get paid first.  At any rate, once they use the nuclear option, good luck seeing one dollar out of them.  

 

Carnival cancelled our (fully paid for) cruise, and consequently, our fully paid for wedding ceremony.  I'm not mad.  I understand they were essentially forced to cancel cruises (i.e. CDC "no sail order"), and I understand the circumstances of the world right now demand it.  We chose a full refund (not yet received) rather than future credits, e.g. re-read paragraphs 1-4 above.

 

I have yet to initiate a dispute with my CC company, but I plan to call them in the next day or so to inquire about the process, and most likely initiate a dispute.  This is called risk mitigation, not fraud.  It might be tricky for me, because I use my cc's for most of my expenses, and pay them off monthly.  As I see it, I have two options:
 

1)  "Trust" and "Hope" that Carnival will refund our money, despite their financial ruin, because they said they would;
 

2)   Mitigate my risk of loss by getting my money back now, else I'll have no recourse if they file for bankruptcy (unless I hire a lawyer to go after Carnival? Not likely a winning proposition).

 

I have no problems with Carnival, have had a lot of fun on previous cruises, and created lots of good memories.  I am sure Carnival has all intentions of refunding everyone's money ("unearned revenue") who is entitled to it, however, they simply might not be able to do it.  This is a business decision.  Just like if/when Carnival files for bankruptcy, and stiffs a whole lot of people out of money, they aren't doing that as a personal gesture...it is a business decision. 

 

I do hope that this pandemic passes very soon, and we can return to some kind of normalcy, and I do hope that Carnival is able to stay afloat, one way or the other.  

 

It isn't fair to judge anyone who is opting to take the "money now" approach, rather than putting all their chips on the "trust" and "hope" board; especially those people who might be in a financial bind as it is.  Full disclosure, I have no significant financial problems currently, however, potentially losing several thousands of dollars on a bad bet ("trusting" and "believing" that Carnival will give me all my money back, like they said they would) is not a position that I want to be in. 

 

Good luck everyone, but don't judge. 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by hdmaninmb
added info

[Roger88]

On 4/18/2020 at 8:49 PM, Joebucks said:

 

While I'm not advocating for a 90 day refund, it's not them just deciding to screw everyone. Many of these companies literally don't have enough cash flow on hand to just hand out millions of dollars instantly.

 

If you can't feed your family because of a cruise you already agreed to, that's not Carnival's fault.

I agree with you on it entirely. But they have to pay in 90 days no matter what. I mean these companies also have some of their own obligations to cover up, pay the salaries, taxes, ship maintance and etc. It takes time and money and they simply dont have so much cash on it at the moment to distribute them quickly. At the same time, I am more than sure that in 90 days everyone will get their refunds. I would suggest staying patient

[jimbo5544]

17 hours ago, resistk said:

 

I just want to make sure I don't lose the dispute option in case things go south fast for the cruise lines.  I have read there are a ton of lawsuits in the works and that may cause issues.  Bloomberg Business Week also savaged CCL and that has got to hurt. And another waive of COVID or some more bad news would wreck further havoc on the industry.  Best not to be too optimistic.

Unless Bloomberg news is a player in the financial process, the point is moot.  It was a vicious article, any very subjective from many views.  Carnival is not going away.

[Luv2cruz1000]

2 hours ago, hdmaninmb said:

 

Right, but this is totally different.  First, I'm sure your investment company that handled 401(k) accounts wasn't facing an imminent bankruptcy.  Second, Carnival just acquired huge amounts of cash (Billions, with a "B") by offering more stock shares, issuing bonds, etc.  That isn't even counting the $1.353B in "Cash and Short-Term Investments" they had at the end of the last quarter (11/30/19-02/29/20). They have PLENTY of cash on hand, don't be fooled.  I get it that processing refunds might take more time because of the sheer volume of requests, but it certainly isn't because of a shortage of cash.  Probably more like how they choose to prioritize their cash. 

 

There is a lot of misinformed guidance being posted in here, along the lines of "just wait until they give you your money back". That is a fools errand when you consider the financial position that Carnival is currently in. 

 

Depending on who you ask, or which analyst you believe, Carnival has about 12+/- months of liquidity to stay afloat, with all the boats parked.  What if that number is actually 3 months, 6 months, 9 months?  Do you know what happens when they can't fund their debts?  Bankruptcy, restructuring, etc.  What if they use the nuclear option well before they run out of liquidity? In my cursory research, companies are filing for bankruptcy BEFORE they are actually out of cash (just as Frontier recently did).  I'm no bankruptcy attorney, but in my research, once the bk trigger is pulled, no one is getting paid until the court says who gets what.

 

Do you know who is last in line to get paid if they do file bk?  I don't know, but it is probably either you and me, or the shareholders... but I'm sure the bond holders and other creditors get paid first.  At any rate, once they use the nuclear option, good luck seeing one dollar out of them.  

 

Carnival cancelled our (fully paid for) cruise, and consequently, our fully paid for wedding ceremony.  I'm not mad.  I understand they were essentially forced to cancel cruises (i.e. CDC "no sail order"), and I understand the circumstances of the world right now demand it.  We chose a full refund (not yet received) rather than future credits, e.g. re-read paragraphs 1-4 above.

 

I have yet to initiate a dispute with my CC company, but I plan to call them in the next day or so to inquire about the process, and most likely initiate a dispute.  This is called risk mitigation, not fraud.  It might be tricky for me, because I use my cc's for most of my expenses, and pay them off monthly.  As I see it, I have two options:
 

1)  "Trust" and "Hope" that Carnival will refund our money, despite their financial ruin, because they said they would;
 

2)   Mitigate my risk of loss by getting my money back now, else I'll have no recourse if they file for bankruptcy (unless I hire a lawyer to go after Carnival? Not likely a winning proposition).

 

I have no problems with Carnival, have had a lot of fun on previous cruises, and created lots of good memories.  I am sure Carnival has all intentions of refunding everyone's money ("unearned revenue") who is entitled to it, however, they simply might not be able to do it.  This is a business decision.  Just like if/when Carnival files for bankruptcy, and stiffs a whole lot of people out of money, they aren't doing that as a personal gesture...it is a business decision. 

 

I do hope that this pandemic passes very soon, and we can return to some kind of normalcy, and I do hope that Carnival is able to stay afloat, one way or the other.  

 

It isn't fair to judge anyone who is opting to take the "money now" approach, rather than putting all their chips on the "trust" and "hope" board; especially those people who might be in a financial bind as it is.  Full disclosure, I have no significant financial problems currently, however, potentially losing several thousands of dollars on a bad bet ("trusting" and "believing" that Carnival will give me all my money back, like they said they would) is not a position that I want to be in. 

 

Good luck everyone, but don't judge. 

 

 

Well said! We are all in different positions and different experiences.

Sorry that your wedding was affected...We all have had different losses and experiences during this. I just lost a vacation! 

I have just filed with a credit card dispute and not sure how this will turn out but am skeptical on 90 days as it's been 30 and there seems to be very few saying they got their money.

Good luck everyone,no judgement, here we are in different storms.

[quattrohead]

4 hours ago, hdmaninmb said:

Carnival cancelled our (fully paid for) cruise, and consequently, our fully paid for wedding ceremony.  I'm not mad.  I understand they were essentially forced to cancel cruises (i.e. CDC "no sail order"), and I understand the circumstances of the world right now demand it.  We chose a full refund (not yet received) rather than future credits, e.g. re-read paragraphs 1-4 above.

 

We were in the exact same situation for next week, my girlfriend paid for a wedding cruise for her daughter . She is $4000 down if the dodo hit's the fan so I am pushing her hard to find out where her refund is.

We are very disappointed that the cruise and wedding were cancelled but will sail again when it is safe.

[Shynook11]

On 4/18/2020 at 2:35 PM, PhillyFan33579 said:

I find the timing almost unbelievable. Even if things played out exactly the way   the OP stated, I would not do something like that. However, what I am learning pretty fast on this site is a lot of people booked cruises when they really weren’t in a position to afford the cruise financially. 

I started the topic after I got refund and case was resolved.  Chase bank is great

[evandbob]

WSJ today reported that short sellers (those who hope stocks go lower) have drastically increased their position against Carnival, Royal and some hotels. Could this push stock prices down near junk status, making bankruptcy a greater possibility?  Their stock has already taken a vicious beating.  Refunds become non existant if that happens.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/bets-against-the-stock-market-rise-to-highest-level-in-years/ar-BB12RYPy?li=BBnbfcN

Edited April 20, 2020 by evandbob

[Shynook11]

Here ya go... non believers.  I’m  very aware of the difference between a temporary credit settled dispute.  It’s pretty easy to read the difference as I have  3 still in temporary credit limbo. Majority money in 3rd party vendor excursions out of the US.  You all do you... but I’m happy not to be in limbo 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Shynook11
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