Suggestions RCL needs to do to get people cruising again

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, lovescats5 said:

What generation is the 70's crowd?  Boomers, correct.  If you look, all us boomers were born after a world war.  If you look at how many boomers are alive there are so many more than any other age group.  If you just look at numbers, it would make sense that there would be more deaths in that age group.  Which still does not mean they should be banned from cruising.  A 70 year old taking medication to control blood pressure, diabetes, etc is more healthy than a 40 year old who has a condition but is not taking anything for it.  I think the way to settle this is to let us 70+ people do all the cruising and they should ban anyone under 70.  How would that make all you people who want to get rid of the older cruisers feel.  Probably like you make us feel.

 

That's not true. 71% of the population is under the age of 55:

 

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-age/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by time4u2go

[adidas5676]

1 hour ago, lovescats5 said:

What generation is the 70's crowd?  Boomers, correct.  If you look, all us boomers were born after a world war.  If you look at how many boomers are alive there are so many more than any other age group.  If you just look at numbers, it would make sense that there would be more deaths in that age group.  Which still does not mean they should be banned from cruising.  A 70 year old taking medication to control blood pressure, diabetes, etc is more healthy than a 40 year old who has a condition but is not taking anything for it.  I think the way to settle this is to let us 70+ people do all the cruising and they should ban anyone under 70.  How would that make all you people who want to get rid of the older cruisers feel.  Probably like you make us feel.

What happens if there is an outbreak on your cruise and you run out of your life-dependent medication because of being stuck off shore for weeks?  What do they do?  Have to helicopter you out with the coast guard.  That's why pre-existing aren't allowed to sail.  That, plus the susceptibility of people with pre-existing conditions or lowered immunity due to age is the reason.  They aren't targeting you just because they feel like it. It's based on data and what happened during previous outbreaks.  I wasn't allowed to cruise after 6 months of pregnancy, and babies under a certain age aren't allowed to sail.  Maybe you shouldn't be so defensive about absolutely nothing, and realize this is all to protect people (and themselves from lawsuits).

Edited April 21, 2020 by adidas5676

[DaniDanielle]

Wish I would be around when these young ones become seniors.  I am sure they will complain the most about being discriminated against.  Every Senior was young once and felt the same way about older people, but as time marches on, opinions change.

[lovescats5]

They not only lose the 70+ crowd but the family possibly.  We are a family of 4 and if I could not go neither would my son or granddaughter.  And how many other people need medication that are under 70.  Do you eliminate them from the ship also.  So only you who are so healthy can cruise.  How many is that?  Good luck to all you who turn 70.  And those of you who are 60+, you are next on the chopping block.

[adidas5676]

2 minutes ago, DaniDanielle said:

Wish I would be around when these young ones become seniors.  I am sure they will complain the most about being discriminated against.  Every Senior was young once and felt the same way about older people, but as time marches on, opinions change.

I already am discriminated against for not being a senior.  I won't get any Social Security because the seniors are using up the last of it even though I paid into it just as much as anyone else.  I am not allowed to purchase a home in a 55+ community, I am not given senior deals on anything-which is something almost every business offers. 

 

Not to mention that, as a woman, I was not allowed to cruise after 6 months of pregnancy.  That's discrimination, right?  I wasn't allowed to bring my new child on a cruise. That's discrimination, right?  I didn't get special college grants because of my ethnicity, that's discrimination, right?

 

Some people and their pity parties.  Everyone is discriminated against in one way or another.  The difference is that I'm not making a huge deal out of it because I accept that reality.

[DaniDanielle]

Seems you are making a big deal about it.  We all faced the same things you are going through.  We all complained about Social Security until we were eligible.  Nobody wanted discounts until they found out they could get them.  I agree with you about your baby though.  Infants are so much less trouble to bring on a cruise then an active toddler.  

[adidas5676]

2 minutes ago, DaniDanielle said:

Seems you are making a big deal about it.  We all faced the same things you are going through.  We all complained about Social Security until we were eligible.  Nobody wanted discounts until they found out they could get them.  I agree with you about your baby though.  Infants are so much less trouble to bring on a cruise then an active toddler.  

I am absolutely not making a huge deal of it.  I only bring it up because you seem to think you are being singled out for your age, and I'm sharing the perspective that you haven't considered which is that everyone is discriminated against for one thing or another.  I accept this, because I have to.  And there is no reason to be upset over something that cannot be changed.  The current restrictions will likely be changed the time cruising resumes I would imagine, but to what we have no idea.  I don't even think the cruise lines know yet.

 

Trust me, if I was eligible for a discount I would happily take it.  The reality is that Social Security will be dried up well before I'm eligible for retirement and even though I paid into it my entire working adult life I will get nothing out of it.  You, however, get to enjoy the benefits of something you paid into and get something out of.  I don't get that luxury, so enjoy it.

[DaniDanielle]

I hope Social Security is around when it is your turn.  We worried also because they have been saying it will be gone from when my parents were working.  Yes, we have been lucky enough to be around to collect but our family went through hell and back to get here.  My husband has not worked for years because he had a virus attack his heart and Social Security was our only income for a long time.  He received a heart transplant 17 years ago and is now healthier than all of us so this age thing does become annoying. 

Cruising is one of his biggest enjoyments so that is allI have to say.......

[adidas5676]

22 minutes ago, DaniDanielle said:

I hope Social Security is around when it is your turn.  We worried also because they have been saying it will be gone from when my parents were working.  Yes, we have been lucky enough to be around to collect but our family went through hell and back to get here.  My husband has not worked for years because he had a virus attack his heart and Social Security was our only income for a long time.  He received a heart transplant 17 years ago and is now healthier than all of us so this age thing does become annoying. 

Cruising is one of his biggest enjoyments so that is allI have to say.......

Sorry to hear that about your husband and trust me these restrictions are tough for everyone right now.  I am hopeful things will return to some sort of normalcy once things are better under control in terms of Covid19, but there may be a "new normal" we will all have to adjust to.  Let's all cross our fingers for something we can all partake in in some fashion.  Take care.

[lovescats5]

Been thinking about this thread and what I have said and yes, I guess I am defensive and also discouraged.  Although we are 70 we do not get any social security either.  My husband worked for 20 yrs. and then became a teacher and has a retirement plan thru them so social security said "too bad" we will not pay you anything after 20 yrs. of paying us.  Just a side note because someone mentioned that.  I was a stay at home mom so there is no SS for me.  We found something we love to do as a family and now there is a chance we will not be able to do that anymore.  I would like to know how many people on CC are so healthy they take no medication of any kind.  Some one said any pre-existing condition should eliminate that person from sailing.  So, like I asked, how many people would that be that should not sail.  And all you younger people, how would you feel if all of a sudden you were told your age group could not sail without a Dr. note or because you might get sick and infect all 4000 people on a ship.  The interesting thing is that everyone will eventually be exposed to Corona and you will...show no symptoms, get sick, get really sick or die.  And although I hope the vaccine arrives sooner rather than later I do not think that will change the outcome for some people.

[DaniDanielle]

26 minutes ago, adidas5676 said:

Sorry to hear that about your husband and trust me these restrictions are tough for everyone right now.  I am hopeful things will return to some sort of normalcy once things are better under control in terms of Covid19, but there may be a "new normal" we will all have to adjust to.  Let's all cross our fingers for something we can all partake in in some fashion.  Take care.

Thanks but we have been really blessed.  We got through the tough times and you will too.  We all need to come together and help out when we can.  Thanks for a healthy discussion, all sides need to be heard from and we can meet on middle ground.  Stay safe.

[Hoopster95]

10 minutes ago, lovescats5 said:

The interesting thing is that everyone will eventually be exposed to Corona and you will...show no symptoms, get sick, get really sick or die.  And although I hope the vaccine arrives sooner rather than later I do not think that will change the outcome for some people.

 

Not quite everyone... scientists so far believe that if the Virus were to be allowed to run rampant, it's about a 50% infection rate.

 

Your last sentence is ominous, especially with the supposed "reopening" in Georgia and the protests to get back to normal in various parts of the USA. Maybe that's the answer.... rip off the band-aid right now everywhere and go back to normal. Those that should die will die anyways, regardless of flattening the curve... we're just prolonging their life by destroying the economy... that's what you're saying, right?

 

If 50% of USA gets infected, that's 180,000,000 people. It was proven  by Italy, Spain,etc that mortality rates when nothing is done to slow down the spread is around 8%-10%. How many USA citizens is that out of 180,000,000? Let's say that the Italy & Spain figures are wrong, Italy was an aged population, yada yada yada.... Let's say USA ends up with only a 1% mortality rate, one of the best in the world. What is 1% people dead out of 180 million? 

 

[CruisingAlong4Now]

Well, maybe the people under 40 should be banned from cruising.  They spread the disease even more than the over 60 group because they are generally asymptomatic and don't know they are spreading it.  Think "Typhoid Mary". Mary Mallon was born in 1869 in Ireland and emigrated to the US in 1884. She had worked in a variety of domestic positions for wealthy families prior to settling into her career as a cook. As a healthy carrier of Salmonella typhi her nickname of “Typhoid Mary” had become synonymous with the spread of disease, as many were infected due to her denial of being ill. 

[John&LaLa]

4 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Not quite everyone... scientists so far believe that if the Virus were to be allowed to run rampant, it's about a 50% infection rate.

 

Your last sentence is ominous, especially with the supposed "reopening" in Georgia and the protests to get back to normal in various parts of the USA. Maybe that's the answer.... rip off the band-aid right now everywhere and go back to normal. Those that should die will die anyways, regardless of flattening the curve... we're just prolonging their life by destroying the economy... that's what you're saying, right?

 

If 50% of USA gets infected, that's 180,000,000 people. It was proven  by Italy, Spain,etc that mortality rates when nothing is done to slow down the spread is around 8%-10%. How many USA citizens is that out of 180,000,000? Let's say that the Italy & Spain figures are wrong, Italy was an aged population, yada yada yada.... Let's say USA ends up with only a 1% mortality rate, one of the best in the world. What is 1% people dead out of 180 million? 

 

 

Just under 2 million

[Sunshine3601]

1 hour ago, DaniDanielle said:

I hope Social Security is around when it is your turn.  We worried also because they have been saying it will be gone from when my parents were working.  Yes, we have been lucky enough to be around to collect but our family went through hell and back to get here.  My husband has not worked for years because he had a virus attack his heart and Social Security was our only income for a long time.  He received a heart transplant 17 years ago and is now healthier than all of us so this age thing does become annoying. 

Cruising is one of his biggest enjoyments so that is allI have to say.......

That is great to hear he is doing very well 17 yrs after his heart transplant.  My Dh just had his 3 yr transplant anniversary the end of february and is doing great too!

We both love cruising too and after going thru everything he did before the transplant our goal is to enjoy life to the fullest and not let others dictate everything.

Unfortunately right now he is not allowed to cruise according to rules set in march because of being immune compromised while on anti rejection meds the ships don't want him onboard and he is only 62.  So not only an age restriction but restriction for cruisers with pre-existing health issues too.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Sunshine3601

[Hoopster95]

12 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

What is 1% people dead out of 180 million? 

 

8 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

Just under 2 million

 

Yep.... am I full of b.s.? Just coming up with random numbers for the hell of it?

April 5th

https://www.ccn.com/trumps-chilling-message-nearly-1-million-americans-could-die-from-coronavirus/

[adidas5676]

3 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

 

Yep.... am I full of b.s.? Just coming up with random numbers for the hell of it?

April 5th

https://www.ccn.com/trumps-chilling-message-nearly-1-million-americans-could-die-from-coronavirus/

I don't necessarily condone taking information for educational purposes from any politically motivated sources, but it's not the first source that has said we'd be looking at possibly over a million dead in the U.S. if we let the virus chart it's course unabated.  People said "herd immunity" would help control it, and herd immunity would mean over a million U.S. citizens would die to achieve herd immunity based on the virus' current data.

[DaniDanielle]

2 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

That is great to hear he is doing very well 17 yrs after his heart transplant.  My Dh just had his 3 yr transplant anniversary the end of february and is doing great too!

We both love cruising too and after going thru everything he did before the transplant our goal is to enjoy life to the fullest and not let others dictate everything.

Would love to meet up someday.  It is great to hear the success stories, which are many more than people think.  He always says we have to do stuff while we can, gets me every time.  Our 24 cruises were mostly his doing, he is so grateful to be here and enjoying life.  As you know, they are in better shape than we are (because we did all the worrying😳). He is on minimal medication and, thankfully, has had no problems.

[DaniDanielle]

43 minutes ago, lovescats5 said:

Been thinking about this thread and what I have said and yes, I guess I am defensive and also discouraged.  Although we are 70 we do not get any social security either.  My husband worked for 20 yrs. and then became a teacher and has a retirement plan thru them so social security said "too bad" we will not pay you anything after 20 yrs. of paying us.  Just a side note because someone mentioned that.  I was a stay at home mom so there is no SS for me.  We found something we love to do as a family and now there is a chance we will not be able to do that anymore.  I would like to know how many people on CC are so healthy they take no medication of any kind.  Some one said any pre-existing condition should eliminate that person from sailing.  So, like I asked, how many people would that be that should not sail.  And all you younger people, how would you feel if all of a sudden you were told your age group could not sail without a Dr. note or because you might get sick and infect all 4000 people on a ship.  The interesting thing is that everyone will eventually be exposed to Corona and you will...show no symptoms, get sick, get really sick or die.  And although I hope the vaccine arrives sooner rather than later I do not think that will change the outcome for some people.

I was wondering, can’t you file for Social Security based on your husband’s 20 year pay in?  I think it stinks he couldn’t get his.

[Sunshine3601]

13 minutes ago, DaniDanielle said:

Would love to meet up someday.  It is great to hear the success stories, which are many more than people think.  He always says we have to do stuff while we can, gets me every time.  Our 24 cruises were mostly his doing, he is so grateful to be here and enjoying life.  As you know, they are in better shape than we are (because we did all the worrying😳). He is on minimal medication and, thankfully, has had no problems.

Hopefully we can meet up on a cruise someday soon! 

Yes you are right about us doing all the worrying.  

My Dh is also on very low does of meds.  His transplant was end of february 2017 and I had planned a shore rental that june for our usual spot at LBI NJ prior to his transplant.  His transplant coordinator told me in march or april that year I better cancel that vacation as it was too soon after transplant for him to be around everyone down the shore.  He said No we are going.  He knows how much I love the beach and knew I needed it too.  He reminded his coordinator the reason he went thru all of this was to enjoy life!   It truly gives you a whole new outlook on life.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Sunshine3601

[Sunshine3601]

7 minutes ago, DaniDanielle said:

I was wondering, can’t you file for Social Security based on your husband’s 20 year pay in?  I think it stinks he couldn’t get his.

No there are alot of jobs that wont allow you to collect ssi even though you paid into it.  Teachers mailman I know are 2 if them because my mom was a school teacher for almost 40 years and my Dad was a mailman for 35 years before he retired.

[DaniDanielle]

My husband received his March, 2003.  We felt the same way about going to Atlantic City( hadn’t found cruising yet).We went after two months and he was careful and had a great time.  I think living a normal life has been healthier than worrying about everything.

When his doctors asked how he was doing, I told them he managed to get his chips on the Roulette table!  All these years later, still hard to believe what we went through.

[Sunshine3601]

30 minutes ago, DaniDanielle said:

My husband received his March, 2003.  We felt the same way about going to Atlantic City( hadn’t found cruising yet).We went after two months and he was careful and had a great time.  I think living a normal life has been healthier than worrying about everything.

When his doctors asked how he was doing, I told them he managed to get his chips on the Roulette table!  All these years later, still hard to believe what we went through.

His situation was a bit unique as he was selected to be part of a brand new case study at that time.  He had to go thru all these extra tests and meet with several new doctors that were part of the study group.  Initially they said no then I made a suggestion to one of the study doctors and he thought about it and 2 days later called to say he told me that was a great suggestion and they signed him up for the study.  About a week later We had 2 or 3 phone calls to prepare to go to hospital but they didnt work out for various reasons.  Following week the usual call came in and I immediately had a great feeling it was the one.  12 hours later they started the transplant. 

Then came on all the worrying about the study part of the program and whether new process would work with different medicine combo.    I dont think I slept for weeks..by week 6 one of the 10 case studies had died.   More worrying...  To date there have been thousands of successful  transplants done in the US as a result of this case study.

That was very stressful but very rewarding to be part of that.  Brings a tear to my eyes every time I think about it.

[ThirstyCruiser]

1 hour ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Not quite everyone... scientists so far believe that if the Virus were to be allowed to run rampant, it's about a 50% infection rate.

 

Your last sentence is ominous, especially with the supposed "reopening" in Georgia and the protests to get back to normal in various parts of the USA. Maybe that's the answer.... rip off the band-aid right now everywhere and go back to normal. Those that should die will die anyways, regardless of flattening the curve... we're just prolonging their life by destroying the economy... that's what you're saying, right?

 

If 50% of USA gets infected, that's 180,000,000 people. It was proven  by Italy, Spain,etc that mortality rates when nothing is done to slow down the spread is around 8%-10%. How many USA citizens is that out of 180,000,000? Let's say that the Italy & Spain figures are wrong, Italy was an aged population, yada yada yada.... Let's say USA ends up with only a 1% mortality rate, one of the best in the world. What is 1% people dead out of 180 million? 

 

Infection mortality rate and Case mortality rate are hugely different for this.

 

We know the Case mortality rate. Very nearly all of the people that die from COVID19 complications get tested and counted as a Case of COVID-19.

 

Much speculation on the Infection mortality rate because we don't have good data on who's been infected due to lack of adequate testing. All the people that have been infected with mild to zero symptoms that did not die are not being included in the overall mortality rates. Very nearly all of these people are not being counted, and not driving down the overall mortality rate.

 

This is a very interesting and curious disease,  with its wide range of symptoms from none to death.

 

Why do the Cases keep going up at roughly the same rate as the increased testing rates? Because even though testing is increasing, it is still woefully inadequate. Most of the people that are getting tested and counted are the ones NOT with mild to zero symptoms.

 

Counterpoint - for sure there are some people dying from COVID19 that don't get counted. This number is tiny though compared to the people that have or had the virus, had mild to no symptoms and did not get counted.

 

What is adequate testing to get are arms around this lack of information? Truly random testing on a wide scale.

Edited April 22, 2020 by ThirstyCruiser

[ThirstyCruiser]

Google "Does the immune system weaken with age" Read. Think.

 

If a large group of people, say about 4000 to 6000, are exposed to coronavirus, in general, the older ones will have a more severe and adverse reaction to it. I said in general! I know you, dear reader, are the world's healthiest 70+ and can run circles around some soda-chugging, chimney-smoking, potatoe-chip-eating 30 year old slob. Problem is Royal has no way to identify you compared to the average 70 year old (hello Dr's note!)

 

Royal needs some no news, boring, nobody dies (for any reason!) cruises coming out of the gate. And if that is their goal, and it is, the fewer 70+ people you have on board the more likely that is. Its not personal. No one hates you because you are older. Royal just desperately wants no drama on its initial cruises.

 

If COVID 19 had demonstrated a propensity to cause 40 year old fans of Seinfeld with green eyes a more serious problem than other demographics, I would not take it personally. I would understand its business.

 

Trust me, its all about the mighty dollar. RCL is playing the long game, and perhaps fighting for their very survival as a company. If they think it will help this cause to restrict initial cruises to some particular demographic identified scientifically and medically, they will do so for the greater good of cruising in the long term so that they may eventually be able to welcome you with open arms. This will happen later rather than sooner if the first cruises are problematic.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by ThirstyCruiser