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Over 70 requirements?


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7 hours ago, LDVinNC said:

 

I do too. I also get a nasty cough with some colds. Only good thing is that I get fewer colds now that I am older.

 

Even without a cold, I often get a bad cough after four or five days on a cruise ship. Usually takes several weeks to go away once at home.

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On 4/22/2020 at 5:55 AM, Ride-The-Waves said:

Exactly.

 

Cruise lines are businesses.  They will make it "safe" for them before they do that for paying passengers.  If anyone believes that the recent experiences with at least ten ships involved in various ways with coronavirus hasn't changed the way they will embark passengers again, please think again.  The CLIA/CDC guidance is just a start.  Cruise lines will do what they need to protect themselves from litigation to include requiring health certifications and establishing age requirements.  Ports will do the same.  It will be the "new normal."  

 

Like you, I have been "cruising" since age 5.  The old Cunard Queens, SS America and United States, Independence, and the last 20 years RCI, X, Princess, Azamara and river cruising.  Have set foot on all 7 continents, experienced the fascination of the Galapagos and African safaris.  I am very comfortable, having lived in Europe as a teen and later lived in eastern Europe, to independently travel anywhere in the world.  Spouse mumbling that she wants to see Mongolia (!) and cruising won't get us there.  In the process of battling our TA and Uniworld over a fully paid for cruise originally scheduled for this June and pushed, via FCC, into 2021.  However, CLIA and CDC guidance suggests we will not qualify (both of us north of 75).  Wakeup call to look elsewhere.  Likely, cruising as we have known it, is over.

I think the biggest challenge cruise lines have is how to keep their staff and crew safe from exposure given tight living conditions on board for employees.  On our last cruise, to Mexico on Grand, 2 passengers came down with virus after we got off.  On the next cruise, about 20 crew members came down with the virus, more crew then passengers, all were quarantined after returning to California from Hawaii.   These two cruises were in mid February before a lot was known.  

 

My dh is from France, he lived in north Africa and the Middle East, speaks many languages so like you we have travel on our own overseas comfortably in addition to cruising. 

 

What we do in the future will depend on how this virus plays out around the world.  We had a flight booked to go to Israel mid May which we re booked for September.  The recovery from the impacts of the virus in usa and Israel will decide what we do, in the short run.  Our flight is a non stop from San Francisco to Tel aviv, so don't need to go through Europe.  

 

At 73 and 85, we lucky we are so healthy but who does not have some sort of underlying conditions at these ages, even if well managed.   Feel blessed we started traveling early in our work career lives and have continued to do so well in to retirement.  May be time to hang up our traveling shoes and enjoy our memories. 

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On 4/22/2020 at 7:10 AM, muggo11 said:

Yes. The definition and enforcement will be interesting. Diabetes? Cancer?  But what if meds successfully manage it?  I imagine it will be easy find a doctor—for a price—that will happily sign a medical certificate.  If this is a CYA move, doubt if there will be much scrutiny beyond collection of paperwork. 

It would be easier just to forge it yourself than actually try and bribe someone. It would be impossible to check upon due to data protection and doc/patient confidentiality.

 

With regards to enforcement they will start searching bags and luggage very thoroughly for medications and google what they are when they find them? There are ways around that too. Hiding your pills in an orbit chewing gum box or a plastic zip lock bag which you carry on your person in your pocket after taking the pills out of the packaging. And if you are not wearing anything metal you won't set the metal detector of so you would be not hand searched. But is it really worth doing that?

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On 4/22/2020 at 7:44 PM, Hlitner said:

So, it sounds like Princess is already backing away from the CLIA proposal to require physicians notes for those over 70.  Health forms are nothing new and folks routinely just quickly check "No"  to any question.  Prior to COVID-19 we had noticed that several cruise lines had stopped using pre-cruise health forms since they realized that most passengers lied.  But a new form makes sense as it will be seen as a reasonable step that gives the cruise line a legal defense if needed.  I do think that temperature checks are going to become very routine at cruise ships and airports.  Pity the poor person who simply has a common cold with a relatively benign 100f fever.  

 

But here is the big problem with temperature checks.  Consider a couple who spends thousands of dollars on airfare to get to a place like Tokyo or Singapore where they are to embark on a long cruise.  They get a cold or some other mild illness and happen to be running a fever on embarkation day.  Will they be denied boarding?  Given that scenario how many folks are going to fly long distances to take a cruise?  And will the various insurance providers be willing to insure against such an event and reimburse the lost money?   DW and I typically fly Business Class to our more distant cruises and have thousands of dollars invested in Business Class air (usually booked through the cruise line).  I am not so sure we would be willing to gamble that kind of money on a "temperature check."  We would likely avoid future expensive cruises and simply increase our independent land travel to foreign lands.  And how about a crew member who has just be flown (at Princess expense) half way round the world to start a new contract on a ship.  When they get to the vessel they have a fever.  Will Princess deny them boarding, invalidate their contract, etc?  Or will they house them in a local hotel until the fever is gone and then transport them to another port where they can join the ship?

 

Hank

Princess might even have you deported and sent back to your own country. It happen once on the QM2  the staff were telling us. The ship was setting off for an eastbound ta someone got something onboard went to medical centre refused to be locked in the cabin and said we will get the off the ship so the captain turned around the statue of liberty and docked again and these 2 left the ship.  They were english and with no return flight they got deported by U.S immigration with a ten year ban from returning to my understanding of the law.

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I think if you are over 70 and have no chronic deseases - you are good to go. For the rest of illneses it doesnt matter how old you are. Young people sometimes are way sicker than elderly people. Also, all people are different and some can be more or less affected by a certain illness or condition. So its a hard question, but again, if there is no chronic deseas - anyone should be fine to go

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3 hours ago, Roger88 said:

I think if you are over 70 and have no chronic deseases - you are good to go. For the rest of illneses it doesnt matter how old you are. Young people sometimes are way sicker than elderly people. Also, all people are different and some can be more or less affected by a certain illness or condition. So its a hard question, but again, if there is no chronic deseas - anyone should be fine to go

My DH has type 2 diabetes. It's well managed, & we've taken 21 cruises w/o a problem. But we may not be good to go. 😪

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52 minutes ago, 1965 said:

My DH has type 2 diabetes. It's well managed, & we've taken 21 cruises w/o a problem. But we may not be good to go. 😪

My wife is the same. Over 30 cruises, never used medical centre or claimed on insurance. Will just have to see what happens down the line. We will not holiday again until a viaccine is available.

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51 minutes ago, 1965 said:

My DH has type 2 diabetes. It's well managed, & we've taken 21 cruises w/o a problem. But we may not be good to go. 😪

About 10% of the North American population has diabetes, about 50% have hypertension and, 40% have obesity,  These are three underlying conditions that seem to have big problems with COVID-19.  Do you think the cruise industry is willing to write off more then 50% of their potential customers?   And for lines like Celebrity and HAL, that attract a higher proportion of older folks those percentages are even higher.

 

And I do think that cruisers need to make some demands of the cruise industry.  I am tired of them telling me how they are going to work hard to keep their ships clean.  Cruise ships have always been kept clean so implementing a permanent Code Orange or Code Red cleaning policy is no big deal.  But they should also retrofit all their vessels with HEPA air filters rather then recirculating any viruses that might be in the air.  Some other posters have mentioned often getting "cabin cough" which can be a very nasty problem.  DW has had multiple bouts of "cabin cough" which has been diagnosed as a severe URI caused by an unknown virus.  Those bouts have taken weeks to clear-up after we returned home and in some cases needed the help of steroids.   We have been on many cruises where these URI's spread like wildfire and they are spread through the air.  Perhaps this is the same reason that so many on the Diamond Princess caught COVID-19...even after being restricted to their cabin.  HEPA filters will stop most viruses and bacteria, but the cheap filters used by cruise ships will NOT!  So if the cruise lines want assurances that passengers are healthy we should ask for assurances that the ships have a healthy environment.

 

Hank

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I agree HEPA filters should be standard on all cruise ships as well as all airlines.  I replaced my furnace filters with a electronic whole house cleaner years ago.  Most people change their filters once or twice a year, I have to clean my whole house cleaner usually every three months.  We use an active charcoal post filter and we still get "white dust".  It's made a huge difference in my seasonal  allergies and colds during the winter.  

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4 hours ago, 1965 said:

My DH has type 2 diabetes. It's well managed, & we've taken 21 cruises w/o a problem. But we may not be good to go. 😪

There is a huge range of severity with diabetes so if they lump everyone in the same pot, (diabetes) I'll bet there is a huge amount of people who fall in that category and many many people who remain very healthy after having diabetes for many years.  The same with blood pressure issues.  Many people have both and with medication are totally controlled.  Calling diabetes a "severe chronic illness" sounds to me like over kill.

 

Judy from SW Florida

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In the current Princess Health Advisory I no longer see the provision about severe, chronic conditions. It lists only two conditions for denial of boarding 1) contact with someone who has or is suspected of having Covid-19 and  2) evidence on boarding of flue-like symptoms or temperature. 

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34 minutes ago, MGAfhc said:

In the current Princess Health Advisory I no longer see the provision about severe, chronic conditions. It lists only two conditions for denial of boarding 1) contact with someone who has or is suspected of having Covid-19 and  2) evidence on boarding of flue-like symptoms or temperature. 

It has definitely left the main web-page. But ... it still exists in their detailed information:

https://www.princess.com/downloads/pdf/plan/Health-Advisory-and-Travel-Safety-Procedures.pdf

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1 minute ago, d9704011 said:

The provided link works well enough for me but I am aware that others are getting a different result.  Here is a copy of the pdf document, which I downloaded from the Princess site:

 

 

Health-Advisory-and-Travel-Safety-Procedures.pdf 322.53 kB · 0 downloads

 

I downloaded your PDF using a Mac and it does not show Item III for me any longer; the severe chronic conditions.  Can you download the attached PDF and check that version (not the one currently stored on your computer)? 

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1 minute ago, bluesea321 said:

 

I downloaded your PDF using a Mac and it does not show Item III for me any longer; the severe chronic conditions.  Can you download the attached PDF and check that version (not the one currently stored on your computer)? 

Sorry, I don’t understand what you want me to download and check.  The pdf I posted is the most current document on the Princess website (I believe) and the item III regarding chronic illness has been removed.  Now, whether that is really the message Princess wants to convey to its prospective passengers, I don’t know.

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2 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Sorry, I don’t understand what you want me to download and check.  The pdf I posted is the most current document on the Princess website (I believe) and the item III regarding chronic illness has been removed.  Now, whether that is really the message Princess wants to convey to its prospective passengers, I don’t know.

 

No need to download now, you just confirmed that Item III has been removed.  beg3yrs had mentioned that it was still there but like you I cannot see it any longer.  Not that this makes any difference, we are a long ways from cruising again and the forms and requirements will change.

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3 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Sorry, I don’t understand what you want me to download and check.  The pdf I posted is the most current document on the Princess website (I believe) and the item III regarding chronic illness has been removed.  Now, whether that is really the message Princess wants to convey to its prospective passengers, I don’t know.

There is a link further down and it takes you to restrictions and severe chronic conditions is still there. Changes happening all the time and many computer , tech issues rep told me. They may remove it or it could come back. No one is cruising yet. 

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1 minute ago, bluesea321 said:

Not that this makes any difference, we are a long ways from cruising again and the forms and requirements will change.

Yes.  Definitely a work in progress although this newer version (if you choose to trust it) does seem to indicate a move away from shutting out passengers with chronic illnesses and focuses more on those with signs of flu or COVID-19 and/or relatively recent potential exposure to the coronavirus

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7 minutes ago, dog said:

There is a link further down and it takes you to restrictions and severe chronic conditions is still there. Changes happening all the time and many computer , tech issues rep told me. They may remove it or it could come back. No one is cruising yet. 

 

I do see a link further down but it does not take me to "severe chronic conditions", the subsequent links show the edited (no Item III) pdf.  No big deal to me as I am not cruising any time soon.

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1 minute ago, bluesea321 said:

 

I do see a link further down but it does not take me to "severe chronic conditions", the subsequent links show the edited (no Item III) pdf.  No big deal to me as I am not cruising any time soon.

It still shows on my screen but as you say no big deal. They are revising this situation continually   More people should be calling customer relations to discuss heir personal case. Too soon no one is cruising yet

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40 minutes ago, dog said:

There is a link further down and it takes you to restrictions and severe chronic conditions is still there. Changes happening all the time and many computer , tech issues rep told me. They may remove it or it could come back. No one is cruising yet. 

Ok, I checked link again and iii. Is gone from there too. 

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It is NOT gonna happen. Cruise Lines would go bankrupt if they required medical assurance that chronic illnesses were 'under control'. Because NO DOCTOR would ever sign such a statement. Liability would be absurd. So, since cruising is dominated by retired people, a HUGE % of whom have 'pre-existing conditions', they will NEVER agree to it. US might [though I doubt it for economic reasons] enforce it at US ports, but cruise lines will not hesitate to skip US to survive. 

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If you guys click the link on post#60, the CEO addresses some of your issues about what may or may not happen with cruising. He talks about what the CDC is saying; and how they change things day to day.  It is an excellent video.  He also mentions how Carnival and all their sublines have enough money to last thru December; and fully expects to be up and running prior to December.  Cheers

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