Do you REALLY think we'll be cruising this year?

[Oceangoer2]

On 4/30/2020 at 2:50 PM, mayleeman said:

@MamaFej  I will wave back!

 

I loved playing for years down here, but about 7 years ago I had to stop because of a "frozen" shoulder (also known as shoulder impingement).

 

After recovering around a year later, I realized that for years I also had had a major skill problem... so alas, I have not played since. My wife retired last year, and we were all set to give it a shot this spring.

 

I usually know major world-wide events are not about me, but I think the virus may save the planet from me randomly hacking away and polluting lakes with compressed rubber shards. 

haha!  I've had a frozen shoulder and found the way to 'fix it'....requested a modified swing from the pro..wasn't so disciplined and couldn't restrain myself...so I just gave it a 'few' full swings and surprised myself....it didn't hurt and became mobile.  Now, that didn't improve my golf any, but it was good I could play and not lose out on all those golf fees.

Edited May 1, 2020 by oceangoer2

[hcat]

1 hour ago, oceangoer2 said:

 

We have many garden flowers but these are waaaaay beyond anything I could do.  Looks like straw or grass baskets with plantings inside.  Lovely.

Many beautiful live flowers and plants on EDGE..They should have a tour similar to the Curated  Art Tour..the last pic is a mural that changes...very unique

[Pushka]

10 hours ago, yorky said:

Personally I would prefer our lockdown to stay in place for another two months but even just now on the news airlines are saying if we don’t open up again they will never recover. How on earth do you even start trying to work out that balance between losing more lives and destroying your economy ? My wife has just received  the death certificate for her mum which states possible Covid 19?. Both her sister who lives next door and her brother  have all the symptoms and are getting tested.  Only my wife is not showing symptoms from her side of the family. I think the numbers here are way higher than the official stats.

That is sad indeed and I expect there will be many more people with your exact story to tell. 
We have our own business. It is a fine line between basically killing off our economy for too many years versus releasing the lid off restrictions. 
 

In Australia we have little community infection. Our hot spots are in 2 different states, one in a Nursing Home in NSW and another a community hospital in Tasmania. The Australian response will be to release, TEST TEST TEST, isolate, and trace.  Then release a little more. We have to get the balance right. Health versus Economy. 
 

In our State of South Australia, the schools never closed. We did close restaurants but they could do take away. We didn't close our beaches - it was summer after all. We did restrict intrastate travel especially over Easter. We stopped all sport. Golf was allowed in pairs but no club house. We have not had a positive case in 9 days now. 

[Pushka]

8 hours ago, Pinboy said:

People are suffering all over the world , and , with respect , not only in the USA ,  yet here we are contemplating when , if , how WE will be " able " to cruise again.  To me, not that important at this time  .

We had 3 cruises booked for this year and already cancelled two , and , it doesn't bother me one bit. 

Yes, it's nice to " dream " , and yes, it's ONLY my opinion , and yes, it's my choice to cruise again, etc, etc, so not necessary to remind me. 

 

 

 

This is after all, a forum about cruising. Of course we will discuss what our future hopes and dreams are. 

[zitsky]

Delete.

Edited May 1, 2020 by zitsky

[Germancruiser]

I suppose nobody here who posts about there hopes, dreams and wishes to cruise again can be described inconsiderate. We all know and feel sorry for those affected- not only those who get the virus- for me those who fear for their livlyhood- have mortages to pay- suffter too.. !

Where else can we write- talk about cruising- which we all love- other than here on this board.

And for that matter- i have hard time to remember when I had zero cruises planed or booked- as it happens to be now. LOL.

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Germancruiser

[zitsky]

My MD husband (non practicing) just said he won't cruise until there is a vaccine.  I'd guess that is 18 to 24 months away.  So much for our December cruise.

 

Hopefully we can all get along but there is always the Ignore list if you don't enjoy someone's posts or they have a seizure inducing profile pic.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

Returning to the original topic, it begins to look like CCL might be too busy this summer answering for its previous cruises to try starting new ones.

    https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/5/1/21244432/carnival-princess-cruises-congress-investigation-covid-19-coronavirus-outbreak
 

   There's also the Australian criminal inquiry into the Ruby Princess debacle, and more civil plaintiffs coming forward each week. The Legal Affairs team can bank on some long, long weeks ahead.

Edited May 2, 2020 by EscapeFromConnecticut

[Pushka]

47 minutes ago, zitsky said:

My MD husband (non practicing) just said he won't cruise until there is a vaccine.  I'd guess that is 18 to 24 months away.  So much for our December cruise.

 

Hopefully we can all get along but there is always the Ignore list if you don't enjoy someone's posts or they have a seizure inducing profile pic.

Certainly on a big ship that's pretty much the same for us too. 

[zitsky]

2 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Certainly on a big ship that's pretty much the same for us too. 

 

I'm going to look at other cruises and other companies for something in early to mid 2022 or even 2023 if I can find it.  Maybe plan a traditional trip on our own.

Edited May 2, 2020 by zitsky

[Pushka]

Just now, zitsky said:

 

I'm going to look at other cruises and other companies for something in early to mid 2022 or even 2023 if I can find it.

Viking is starting to appeal to me again. 😂

[zitsky]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

Viking is starting to appeal to me again. 😂

 

Same here.

[Big_G]

2 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

Returning to the original topic, it begins to look like CCL might be too busy this summer answering for its previous cruises to try starting new ones.

    https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/5/1/21244432/carnival-princess-cruises-congress-investigation-covid-19-coronavirus-outbreak
 

   There's also the Australian criminal inquiry into the Ruby Princess debacle, and more civil plaintiffs coming forward each week. The Legal Affairs team can bank on some long, long weeks ahead.

 

The cruise lines are an easy target but here in little Rhode Island where we have 279 deaths, 80 percent are in nursing homes or other congregate living facilities. I don't know how other states rank in that respect but if it's a nationwide trend maybe Congress should be looking there instead.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

11 minutes ago, Big_G said:

 

The cruise lines are an easy target but here in little Rhode Island where we have 279 deaths, 80 percent are in nursing homes or other congregate living facilities. I don't know how other states rank in that respect but if it's a nationwide trend maybe Congress should be looking there instead.

 
  Oh, I'm sure there are going to be investigations there. But that's no reason for Congress not to look into the greed-fueled, catastrophic decisions of CCL and others.

  A few key differences, of course:
   --  The nursing home population is almost exclusively medically compromised, ultra-vulnerable people;
   --  Nursing homes exist for medical and societal reason. Cruising is absolutely unnecessary; it's one of life's frills;
   --  Perhaps there's an argument that some nursing homes used poor preventive procedures; however, it's not as if they could have told patients "Sorry, get out. We can't let you stay." Cruise ships, on the other hand, had no need to leave their departure ports from mid-February on. There's just no excuse for those February and March sailings.

[Pushka]

36 minutes ago, Big_G said:

 

The cruise lines are an easy target but here in little Rhode Island where we have 279 deaths, 80 percent are in nursing homes or other congregate living facilities. I don't know how other states rank in that respect but if it's a nationwide trend maybe Congress should be looking there instead.

I guess two things. Nursing homes are a necessity. Cruises aren't. Second, in Australia we are experiencing similar issues in NSW. Seems like a staff member had symptoms but kept working for over a week. We now have I think, 12 deaths and over 50 infections from that one worker. I think in such cases that infection control needs a thorough investigation. 

[Big_G]

27 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 
  Oh, I'm sure there are going to be investigations there. But that's no reason for Congress not to look into the greed-fueled, catastrophic decisions of CCL and others.

  A few key differences, of course:
   --  The nursing home population is almost exclusively medically compromised, ultra-vulnerable people;
   --  Nursing homes exist for medical and societal reason. Cruising is absolutely unnecessary; it's one of life's frills;
   --  Perhaps there's an argument that some nursing homes used poor preventive procedures; however, it's not as if they could have told patients "Sorry, get out. We can't let you stay." Cruise ships, on the other hand, had no need to leave their departure ports from mid-February on. There's just no excuse for those February and March sailings.

 

I'm not saying Carnival shouldn't be investigated but I would think the deaths of captive victims would take precedent over people who had choices plus I'm guessing there were a lot more nursing home deaths than cruise line deaths. I mean it's not like we didn't know who the most vulnerable were and yet we failed them miserably.

[mayleeman]

Many of the early cases in mursing homes will likely have been spread by workers who were asymptomatic or had some symptoms but either tried to hide them because they had little sick leave or thought they had something minor. Many have reported their jobs were threatened if they took time off. Same with nurses and meatpacking plant employees. Many were not given protective equipment and disciplined if they tried to use their own. (Talking US)

 

One thing I hope comes out of this is something highlighted by a hugely ironic, maybe hypococritical, condition the CDC is trying to impose on cruise ships: they are being forced to guarantee better medical care, treatment, and transportation for pax and crew than practically any employer on land.  

 

It is time to recognize that sick employees should stay home and not lose their jobs as a consequence of protecting coworkers and customers (or patients). Paid sick leave should be mandatory. OSHA needs to be resurrected after the years of budget cuts so unhealthy conditions like we have seen in the US, where thousands of service and low-paid workers caught the virus, can be identified and corrected.

 

No excuse for a country wallowing in massive corporate wealth to have its entire health care system taken down by a predictable event such as a pandemic.

Edited May 2, 2020 by mayleeman

[npcl]

1 hour ago, Big_G said:

 

I'm not saying Carnival shouldn't be investigated but I would think the deaths of captive victims would take precedent over people who had choices plus I'm guessing there were a lot more nursing home deaths than cruise line deaths. I mean it's not like we didn't know who the most vulnerable were and yet we failed them miserably.

Of course there are a lot more nursing homes and people in them, and they did not cease operation.  So not surprising more deaths.

[npcl]

49 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

Many of the early cases in mursing homes will likely have been spread by workers who were asymptomatic or had some symptoms but either tried to hide them because they had little sick leave or thought they had something minor. Many have reported their jobs were threatened if they took time off. Same with nurses and meatpacking plant employees. Many were not given protective equipment and disciplined if they tried to use their own. (Talking US)

 

One thing I hope comes out of this is something highlighted by a hugely ironic, maybe hypococritical, condition the CDC is trying to impose on cruise ships: they are being forced to guarantee better medical care, treatment, and transportation for pax and crew than practically any employer on land.  

 

It is time to recognize that sick employees should stay home and not lose their jobs as a consequence of protecting coworkers and customers (or patients). Paid sick leave should be mandatory. OSHA needs to be resurrected after the years of budget cuts so unhealthy conditions like we have seen in the US, where thousands of service and low-paid workers caught the virus, can be identified and corrected.

 

No excuse for a country wallowing in massive corporate wealth to have its entire health care system taken down by a predictable event such as a pandemic.

What is being forced on cruise ships is if they intend to sail out of US ports, they need to be able to deal with the problems that come up related to COVID-19 without depending upon the US to bail them out.

 

Can't dock anywhere else, including the countries the companies are incorporated in or the ones the ships are registered in then just sail to the US.  Sitting off shore with sick crew off load them at US ports.

 

As much as anything the CDC is telling the cruise lines that they are not US companies and they are not US ships, so if they want to sail from US ports they need to be prepared to handle their own problems.

 

Prior to the Coral, it was come into a US port and get the passengers off.  Once off the ship it is not their cost and not their problem.  With the Coral they had to take responsibility of getting passengers home via private transportation.

 

There are now a couple of cases of the Coast Guard considering launching investigations because the cruise lines did not give them complete medical information prior to off loading.

 

A business on land inside the US pays taxes, that help pay for local government and the services it provides (hospital, emergency services, etc.).  So they can expect support from those services.  The cruise lines not so much.

Edited May 2, 2020 by npcl

[Pushka]

1 hour ago, mayleeman said:

 

One thing I hope comes out of this is something highlighted by a hugely ironic, maybe hypococritical, condition the CDC is trying to impose on cruise ships: they are being forced to guarantee better medical care, treatment, and transportation for pax and crew than practically any employer on land.  

Well yes, of course they must expect that because the passengers and crew cannot simply walk out the door and get treatment. They might be stuck days away from help! That isn't being hypocritical at all but rather addressing the reality of being on a cruise ship. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Pushka

[hawkesbaynz]

5 hours ago, mayleeman said:

It is time to recognize that sick employees should stay home and not lose their jobs as a consequence of protecting coworkers and customers (or patients). Paid sick leave should be mandatory. OSHA needs to be resurrected after the years of budget cuts so unhealthy conditions like we have seen in the US, where thousands of service and low-paid workers caught the virus, can be identified and corrected.

 

No excuse for a country wallowing in massive corporate wealth to have its entire health care system taken down by a predictable event such as a pandemic.

Agree with these sentiments. Whilst I believe that sick leave is much better in the UK than the US it is still shocking how little sick leave folk in lower skilled work receive. It is no surprise that people in lower socio-economic groups have been affected badly by Covid-19. It has struck poorer areas of the UK and particularly Black and Asian people who arguably have worse health and live in more congested homes. That needs to be addressed too.

 

I have spoken to Care Home staff who do not receive any sick pay. They are poorly paid and are reluctant to take time off working for their private companies. In comparison if you work for the NHS it is six months full pay then reduced rates for the following six months.

 

Our health service has managed heroically with the current crisis. However their political masters were more concerned about Brexit etc thus we probably have one of the worst death rate per head of population in the World.

 

 

5 hours ago, npcl said:

 

 

A business on land inside the US pays taxes, that help pay for local government and the services it provides (hospital, emergency services, etc.).  So they can expect support from those services.  The cruise lines not so much.

 

As for corporate taxation. Large American corporations make massive profits in Europe and pay diddly squat taxes sending money back home. I am awaiting an Amazon parcel today whic is hypocritical but..! POTUS is very protective of those US based companies when the EU talks about acting against them to pay their share towards, healthcare, police, social care etc.... 

 

I should be on the Silhouette in the Bay of Biscay today. Doubt my Norwegian Cruise in August will go ahead..

 

[evandbob]

We've had a 2 week Egyptian land/Nile cruise in March cancelled 2 days before we were flying to Cairo, a partial Panama Canal transit in April scotched,  and a Norwegian fjords cruise from Dover in June vaporized (virusized?) so far.

 

We're hoping a 2 week land tour of Iceland in October will go off safely, and I just booked a Carnival Magic and a Celebrity Edge sailing for November and December at way reduced casino fares.  So I'm hoping, but hedging my bets.

[rimmit]

7 hours ago, mayleeman said:

One thing I hope comes out of this is something highlighted by a hugely ironic, maybe hypococritical, condition the CDC is trying to impose on cruise ships: they are being forced to guarantee better medical care, treatment, and transportation for pax and crew than practically any employer on land.   

For the overwhelming majority of land based employers you basically walk out the door and go to a hospital.  For the vast majority of the US that’s within 10 minutes and for even the most rural parts of America, maybe 2 hour drive at most.  If it’s an absolute emergency the employer can guarantee that 911 is available as we are on land.  You can’t just call 911 at sea and have an ambulance at your door step.  The medical care is subpar at sea.
 

It’s apples and oranges.  No hypocrisy.

[drakes2]

12 hours ago, zitsky said:

 

Same here.

I'll do a Viking cruise out of Europe if Celebrity does not sail there.  More expensive but less passengers. 

[TeeRick]

10 hours ago, Big_G said:

 

The cruise lines are an easy target but here in little Rhode Island where we have 279 deaths, 80 percent are in nursing homes or other congregate living facilities. I don't know how other states rank in that respect but if it's a nationwide trend maybe Congress should be looking there instead.

As of May 1 in my state of PA which has a high rate of infection-

Total cases positive- 46,971

Total cases nursing homes/assisted care (includes HC workers)- 9575  (20.4% of total positive cases)

Total positive cases outside nursing homes - 37,396

 

Total Deaths - 2354 (5% death outcome if positive)

Total Deaths nursing homes/assisted care (includes HC workers) - 1560

-PA has 66.3% of its COVID-19 deaths from these facilities.

 

Total deaths outside nursing homes - 794

PA has a 2.1% death outcome if tested positive but outside of nursing home environment.

PA has a 16.3% death outcome if tested positive in nursing home environment.

 

Hospitalizations show similar trends.

 

I think in your state and most others the numbers and percentages are similar.