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Princess may sue passengers?


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Princess just emailed me information about how they will handle things in the future, including having passengers sign a declaration.  This document can then be used to take legal action.

 

“false responses on pre- boarding documents will result in immediate disembarkation at the next opportunity. Individuals who do not disclose symptoms of illness may also face additional legal consequences.”

 


 Overall I agree with this concept.  however, I can envision a problem with this too.  How would Princess know that a passenger made false responses and/or failed to disclose symptoms.  It is also possible a passenger could become ill soon after boarding.  Passengers may be afraid to go to the infirmary if they fear they will be falsely accused of failing to disclose symptoms and making false responses on their declaration.  How could you ever prove your innocence? How could you prove you became ill after boarding?  Maybe Princess will disembark them and then sue them...or maybe even pursue criminal charges.  Princess would probably rather assume an ill passenger lied and boarded their ship rather than assume that a crew member without any symptoms is actually carrying and spreading the disease.  
 

without knowing details about how this could be implemented, I am very reluctant to sail...well that is not the only reason I’m reluctant to sail.  Like I mentioned, someone without symptoms or a temperature can spread Coronavirus.

 

Also, I wonder what Princess means by denying boarding to those with severe underlying disease.  What about controlled high blood pressure or controlled diabetes

 

 

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I don't see how the process is workable. If someone comes down with covid-19, where are they going to be disembarked? What ports will take them? Once one case appears, where does the ship go? Because ports will be closed to it.

 

We won't be able to cruise until ports are willing to take on covid-19 infected passengers and ships. I don't see that happening until well after there is a working vaccine.

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I also see it as a bluff tactic. Also, forget the idea of criminal charges. If someone didn't declare that they had the flu (for instance) that would not be grounds for a criminal charge. It could be grounds for a civil suit for false declaration, but the cost of that would be ridiculous - as well as the adverse publicity.

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If Princess says they have the right to sure passengers, would we then not have the right to sue Princess if we come down with Norovirus on a ship?

 

This whole business is nuts.  I believe the majority of passengers throughout much of the year are over 60.  Many of those folks have some "underlying" controlled condition.  Not all, don't flame me you lucky folks who do not.  If they scare us away, where does that leave them - with lots of partly empty ships.

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It is.  I can go from slight runny nose, to a sinus infection to bad bronchial cough in a matter of days.  Boarding a ship 3 days earlier, I would have said, yes, I'm healthy.  How do they control this?

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With all the bad publicity they have so far from their actions with COVID 19 do you really think they want such a law suit to hit the international news.  I kind of think not.

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To answer the OP's remark about underlying condition.  Princess asks for you to call them if you have chronic conditions.  I assume their medical personnel will look at what your chronic condition is and make a decision to allow you to sail, or to bring a doctors note stating why you can sail.  I think they are trying to keep some person from showing up at the port and being denied boarding.   Think about flying  to overseas port; then told they can't board.  Princess is trying to minimize any passenger let down.  

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It's called Lawyer Speak.  Princess is going to use such language, not because they truly expect to sue any passengers, but to protect themselves from sick persons boarding and causing others to get sick.  It helps them not be responsible for other's insincerity or bad luck...whenever someone gets sick...because it will happen.  In the same vain, if the wording prevents even 1 sick person from risking getting on board, it's worth it. 

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4 hours ago, Pushka said:

Sounds like a bluff tactic and one Princess might try to use to avoid responsibility. Not going to work. 

Avoid responsibility?? Hey folks, we as passengers, have the duty to be truthful about our health when we board.  Unless cruising is shut down until a vaccine is available, I believe COVID on cruise ships will occur again. I agree, it would be difficult to prove that the passenger knew they were ill when they boarded. But, I’m confident there will be those who, to avoid losing booking fee or being denied boarding, will be less than candid at the terminal. I’m totally fine with some sort of serious policies if it will help the rest of us sail with some degree of confidence that no one on board is infected.

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IIRC, Princess has always had that disclaimer.  All cruise lines have disembarked PAX who violate rules and risk the health and safety of themselves and other PAX.  I think this is boilerplate wording to encourage PAX to be truthful. 

 

On the other hand, what do you do with somebody like the couple who got off the Grand by lying and saying they were tested and were negative when in actuality, their test results had not come back yet?  They both ended up with symptoms on the flight home.  (I don't remember if they were flying home or to a military base for a 14 day quarantine.)

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3 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I also see it as a bluff tactic. Also, forget the idea of criminal charges. If someone didn't declare that they had the flu (for instance) that would not be grounds for a criminal charge.

 

Depends on the fact pattern and I'm sure it would likely never get tested but in America, if someone knew they had COVID-19 and carelessly infected others (especially declaring that they didn't), and one of those others died, I couldn't see legally why they couldn't be prosecuted for "criminally negligent homicide".  I'm not saying it would be an easy case to make as proving it would be very difficult.  But it is analogous to someone who has HIV (especially prior to maintenance medications) and knowingly having unprotected sex with others. 

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1 hour ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

 

Depends on the fact pattern and I'm sure it would likely never get tested but in America, if someone knew they had COVID-19 and carelessly infected others (especially declaring that they didn't), and one of those others died, I couldn't see legally why they couldn't be prosecuted for "criminally negligent homicide".  I'm not saying it would be an easy case to make as proving it would be very difficult.  But it is analogous to someone who has HIV (especially prior to maintenance medications) and knowingly having unprotected sex with others. 

I'm sure if there were an outbreak on one of the ships, Princess would be checking everyone's medical background to see if they've recently had a test for the Coronavirus

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24 minutes ago, MissP22 said:

I'm sure if there were an outbreak on one of the ships, Princess would be checking everyone's medical background to see if they've recently had a test for the Coronavirus

 

Nobody ever said that any of that would happen.

 

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27 minutes ago, MissP22 said:

I'm sure if there were an outbreak on one of the ships, Princess would be checking everyone's medical background to see if they've recently had a test for the Coronavirus

 

I don't see how Princess could check everyone's medical background.  Where would they get the details, it would be a violation of HIPAA laws.

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I think, unfortunately, that Princess is in panic mode!  Lets consider that they have to deal with an ongoing murder investigation in Australia linked to the Rudy Princess fiasco.  The Diamond Princess mess was badly handled, caused worldwide bad publicity, and will likely result in numerous lawsuits filed by passengers and some crew who were on that ill-fated voyage.  The Grand Princess turned into another fiasco and will also generate numerous lawsuits with many claiming that Princess was not only negligent, but grossly negligent.   And now Princess thinks a good approach is to threaten future customers as well as adding additional hassles for cruisers?  And then we also have the current Princess mess with how they are handling refunds and cancellations where folks are waiting for months to get refunds, FCCs, etc.  In our case, we cancelled a cruise more then a week ago (this was done through an excellent cruise agency) but Princess has yet to update our online account to reflect the cancellation.  This kind of thing would normally be done within minutes.

 

So yes, Princess's scare tactics have been effective.  Last week we cancelled an August Princess cruise (weeks before final pmt) because we no longer trust Princess to handle a last minute cancellation and do not want to give the line any more of our money.  And we are now giving lots of consideration to cancelling an October Princess cruise because we are concerned about possibly having to cancel this cruise near final payment (whenever that is) and having Princess botch-up the cancellation.  So yes, Princess is certainly doing an excellent job scaring us away from both current and future bookings.   There are many other places we can put our future travel dollars without having to deal with extra hassles regarding forms, medical exams, botched cancellations, inability to access ports, etc.

 

Instead of Princess giving us more and more reasons to avoid doing business with the company they need to be giving us assurances that they are a company worthy of our continuing business.

 

Hank

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1 hour ago, DrivesLikeMario said:

Princess would need PROOF that you had symptoms.  How do they prove that?  Did they observe your body aches on their security video?  Did they observe you coughing because of Covid-19 or because you have allergies?

I don't believe the medical disclaimer and warning about passenger liability is only about COVID-19.  I could have copied several other posts and not picking on you at all.

 

Medical people are not dumb.  If someone presents with whatever issues on board after cruise has begun, they got by medical screening in some way or other.  If head MD on board is suspicious the passenger may have boarded against medical advice or knew they had some condition or other, Princess could check into the situation and if the passenger found to be deliberately attempting to bypass guidelines, they may use the litigation step as a last resort.  Otherwise, they would look to send the passenger home.  I think the more aggressive cases would be to recover any costs for disembarking and getting them home or into a medical facility.  It gives them an out, but like I said - I see it for cases where the passenger appears to have deliberately flouted the rules and is putting other lives in danger.  If only themselves in danger (say a heart condition), well the damages are less severe. 

 

Outside of that, of course no one can fault a passenger boarding who is asymptomatic and later develops something like COVID-19 unexpectedly. 

 

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7 hours ago, BigGuy25 said:

Avoid responsibility?? Hey folks, we as passengers, have the duty to be truthful about our health when we board.  Unless cruising is shut down until a vaccine is available, I believe COVID on cruise ships will occur again. I agree, it would be difficult to prove that the passenger knew they were ill when they boarded. But, I’m confident there will be those who, to avoid losing booking fee or being denied boarding, will be less than candid at the terminal. I’m totally fine with some sort of serious policies if it will help the rest of us sail with some degree of confidence that no one on board is infected.


Of course it is. 
 

And totally unenforceable. 

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