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Volendam To Brazil November 2020 - Would You Go?

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2 hours ago, Randyk47 said:


The problem is that WHO and CDC aren’t sure if having had Covid-19 makes you immune.  

True. CV appears to be more like a cold than influenza, and you can get a cold more than once a year. But I am willing to take the risk. If we weren't risk takers, we wouldn't be travelers, right? 

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Posted (edited)

Spend 15 or 20 researching the covid issue in Brazil and how their Government is dealing with the issue.

 

It would not surprise if the cruise is cancelled or if the destination is changed.

Edited by iancal

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7 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

True. CV appears to be more like a cold than influenza, and you can get a cold more than once a year. But I am willing to take the risk. If we weren't risk takers, we wouldn't be travelers, right? 


Having had to stand by and support my wife a couple of weeks ago when she lost one of her staff and his spouse 48 hours apart to Covid-19 I find it hard to compare it to a cold.   Somehow we’ve never considered contracting a deathly disease a typical travel risk.  

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     As Gov Cuomo of NY andGov Murphy of NJ are doing, look at the data.

Covid-19 is more than a cold. Yes,it affects people differently,but who knows why ? Some people recover,some people die. I now know three people who have died from the disease. Two neighbors and a good friend’s sister.

People do not die from colds.

     Also, just because you have contracted the virus,does not mean that you can not get it again. Immunity is not a guarantee.

There have been cases of young people -ages 30-40 who have had strokes after recuperating from Covid-19. The after affects of the disease are beginning to surface ,the extent of which is not known at this time.

     i am not certain where you live,JeffElizabeth. You list Fairmont as your location. Perhaps your area has not been greatly affected byCovid-19. We live in a rural community,80 miles east of NYC. The township population is approximately 20:000.

We have had over three hundred reported  cases of Covid-19. It started in March  with one person who was a bartender at a local brewery. By the end of March the cases had escalated to beyond two hundred reported cases.

There may be more infected people in our community who are symptomatic. However, they can carry the virus and give it to others without knowing they are carriers.

      I may suggest that before you take any trip soon that you educate yourself about this insidious virus. I think you will find that it is more than a cold.

 

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8 hours ago, MJSailors said:

     As Gov Cuomo of NY andGov Murphy of NJ are doing, look at the data.

Covid-19 is more than a cold. Yes,it affects people differently,but who knows why ? Some people recover,some people die. I now know three people who have died from the disease. Two neighbors and a good friend’s sister.

People do not die from colds.

     Also, just because you have contracted the virus,does not mean that you can not get it again. Immunity is not a guarantee.

There have been cases of young people -ages 30-40 who have had strokes after recuperating from Covid-19. The after affects of the disease are beginning to surface ,the extent of which is not known at this time.

     i am not certain where you live,JeffElizabeth. You list Fairmont as your location. Perhaps your area has not been greatly affected byCovid-19. We live in a rural community,80 miles east of NYC. The township population is approximately 20:000.

We have had over three hundred reported  cases of Covid-19. It started in March  with one person who was a bartender at a local brewery. By the end of March the cases had escalated to beyond two hundred reported cases.

There may be more infected people in our community who are symptomatic. However, they can carry the virus and give it to others without knowing they are carriers.

      I may suggest that before you take any trip soon that you educate yourself about this insidious virus. I think you will find that it is more than a cold.

 

 

There is a good documentary about Covid-19 on NetFlix.  Narrated by JK Simmons, the Farmers Insurance guy.

 

It explains a lot of the science about why Covid-19 spread so fast when compared to SARS, H1N1, and even ebola.

 

 

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     Thank you for that info, Sargasso Pirate. I realize that you are the OP.

I mentioned about being informed about the virus to JeffElizabeth who seem to convey a cavalier attitude aboutCovid-19, likening the virus to having a cold. The reported case count has increased by fourteen since yesterday.

     The more we know,the better prepared we can be.

An update regarding the virus in our area.

I read in our local paper this AM that a high school basketball coach from a neighboring town has had a stroke as a result of Covid-19. He is a young,fit man.

    The virus is real and the effects can be devastating.

In NY, this is the mantra- Stay  Home,Stay Safe,Save Lives.

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3 minutes ago, MJSailors said:

     Thank you for that info, Sargasso Pirate. I realize that you are the OP.

I mentioned about being informed about the virus to JeffElizabeth who seem to convey a cavalier attitude aboutCovid-19, likening the virus to having a cold. The reported case count has increased by fourteen since yesterday.

     The more we know,the better prepared we can be.

An update regarding the virus in our area.

I read in our local paper this AM that a high school basketball coach from a neighboring town has had a stroke as a result of Covid-19. He is a young,fit man.

    The virus is real and the effects can be devastating.

In NY, this is the mantra- Stay  Home,Stay Safe,Save Lives.

 

Yep, I'm the OP.  My background is in public health and safety, so I have been watching this pandemic with great interest.  The Netflix documentary was excellent.  I hope you can catch it.  

 

Having managed a travel medicine clinic in the past, where we immunzied our agency staff for international travel, I was well versed in what were then ordinary and also emerging outbreaks of various diseases in tropical and remote areas of the globe.  My yellow shot card documents vaccinations for just about everything for which there is a vaccine.  But this is a new virus and the data keeps changing.

 

Consequently, for She Who Must Be Obeyed and me, all international travel, including cruises is now on hold until there is a viable vaccine in use worldwide.

 

International travel/cruises is certainly nothing that we NEED to do.  It's a luxury.

 

Stay safe and wash your hands.

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   I totally understand your position, Sagrasso Pirate. Thank you for your input.

Hoping that an effective vaccine will be available soon. 

We have a Caribbean cruise booked for this November. We plan  to cancel it very soon. 

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Posted (edited)

The cruise lines are waiting as long as possible to cancel cruises.  The object being to collect as much final payment as possible.

 

The cruise lines care more about my wallet than they do about my health.  Our goals are disparate.  Their goal is to get the ships moving and to recognize revenue as quickly as possible.  Ours is to protect our health and well being.   Avoid taking unnecessary risks-especially when those risks pertain to leisure travel.

 

A resumption in cruises will not in any way make us confident that cruising is a safe choice for us.  We feel the opposite based on performance of cruise lines in the very recent past.

 

 

Edited by iancal

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We are booked on that same cruise. Mine was booked with FCD which is refundable up to the final payment date so I am in no hurry either way.

 

This is what I am telling my husband.  If you cancel now  you likely can easily rebook the cruise later in the year should some miracle happen.  I don't think there are crowds clamoring to get onboard.  

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My cousin has been lying in a hospital bed for the last 12 days on a ventilator.  Hardly comparable to a cold or the flu is it?

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The OP said they had a non-refundable deposit.  In that case I would wait to cancel.  Chances are in the next few months HAL will extend their cancelation program so that at least the deposit will be turned into an FCC.  Cancel it now and that is lost!

 

But of course, don't make that final payment.

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Let’s say it all works out and Brazil’s ‘hard but short’ strategy pays off. They’re already at the mass grave stage, and it will get worse before it gets better. 
Even if Brazil is open for business and the cruise is a go, the scars of grief and devastation will still be open and raw everywhere you go.  There will not be the life and laughter and joy that made me fall in love with Brazil, and the Amazon, the times we went there.

IMHO, if you do go, I think you would be missing much of what makes the whole trip a true bucket list experience. If you can wait a year until the rhythm of life returns, it would be money better spent.

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My guess is that HAL will wait until after final payment to announce a decision.  They will want the cash flow from those final payments.

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It can be hard to decide what to do. My mom and I have been cruising with HAL now for over 32 years. We started back on the old Nieuw A sailing from Tampa for Christmas in 1988. We have been at sea for the Holidays (both Christmas and New Years) every year since along with other cruises in between. When we have canceled which is a handful maybe at the most it has been due to financial reasons. Also dealing with the fact that my mom is 89 with underlying health problems. We had two cruises booked for October last year with the idea that we were going to do one or the other. As it turned out we didn't do either one of them and did nothing last summer/early fall. We did do the Holidays again and booked while on board for 20-21. This past year for the Holidays we were on board Nieuw Statendam when the virus was starting to heat up more in China. I remember seeing in on the news while we were on board. When it comes to going this year for 20-21 we will likely make our decision at final payment time.  Its possible that date could end up being closer to the sailing date so by then will have a better idea of where things are at. For us we also always take insurance. But with everything going on with people trying to deal with having their cruises canceled and the $$ involved that can be a lot of money that we all could use for other things that are more important right now.  Just look at what the cruise lines are having to do now to get crew home. Looks like more Asian crew is going to be transferred on to the Noordam from HAL ships off the west coast and the Seabourn Sojurn. I did read this on another thread but don't remember which one. Then also via a Facebook group I saw a post tonight that seems to indicate that there is another transfer going on involving the ships in the Bahamas and one of them (Nieuw Statendam I think) will be going Trans Atlantic. Back to our situation I know when we get to our final payment date is likely when we will make our decision for December. We would much rather deal with a $200 refundable deposit than thousands if we make  the final payment and then not end up going even though we would have the insurance. OMG if this were to happen I don't know what I would do with myself  as we have been on a HAL ship for the last 32 years in a row for the Holidays and we have no family in our area. We still don't know for sure and we won't for a while when the ships will actually be able to get back to cruising again and when they do it wont't be all at once which will cause more cancellations. Ports need to open back up. People need to be able to fly to get to the ships to get on them. Hotels need to open back up. Cruise lines will have to be able to get their ships ready to go again. Think about all the people that were caught up in the mess of trying to get off a ship and get home and if something flares up would you want to be stuck in that position.

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12 hours ago, iancal said:

My guess is that HAL will wait until after final payment to announce a decision.  They will want the cash flow from those final payments.

 

I'm cynical like you when it comes to someone else holding my money, be it government or business.  Since I have a non-refundable deposit, I'll wait until the last possible day to cancel in hopes that they'll blink first.  I am not in the habit of cancelling cruises once booked - but looking forward I don't think I'll ever put down a non-refundable deposit with any cruise line in the future.

 

And, I don't want to cruise on a ship with any restrictions on the passengers like masks or physical distancing.  That's not a cruise to me.

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Posted (edited)

I believe that this entire situation will make those who like to pay in advance, prior to the final payment date, or those who entertain non refundable deposits to rethink that strategy.

 

 

Edited by iancal

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I understand the emotional pull of wanting to cruise again, especially if the cruise is very special in some way.

 

However, I  can't imagine wanting to be in Brazil either during or immediately after the horrific experience they are having now and will have into the fall down there. There is the further possibility that Covid19 could be even more vicious as colder weather sets in.

 

Talk about asking for trouble......

 

 

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2 hours ago, iancal said:

I believe that this entire situation will make those who like to pay in advance, prior to the final payment date, or those who entertain non refundable deposits to rethink that strategy.

 

 


While I was never a fan of non-refundable deposits, and actually refused to book a cruise that way, I have taken advantage of early payment discounts.  Under the conditions right now I would not even do that.  I think all the major lines will eventually come through this but I don’t know that they will especially if there is a second wave.  Taking a very calm wait and see approach with no plans to book anything with any line any time soon.    

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53 minutes ago, Randyk47 said:


While I was never a fan of non-refundable deposits, and actually refused to book a cruise that way, I have taken advantage of early payment discounts.  Under the conditions right now I would not even do that.  I think all the major lines will eventually come through this but I don’t know that they will especially if there is a second wave.  Taking a very calm wait and see approach with no plans to book anything with any line any time soon.    

I do not like non-refundable deposits either.  As a 25+ year business traveller I would have lost a lot of money taking those early payment options.  There is always another day and another deal

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Posted (edited)

Mary229....many years of business travel have had the same effect on me.

 

There is always another day and another deal.  

 

Eight/nine years of frequent retirement travel have proven to us that there is not only another deal but more often than not it is a more attractive  deal.

Edited by iancal

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Posted (edited)

We have been booked on a Westerdam sailing in South America for November, 2020 for a year via FCD while were were on Zuiderdam.  At this point, I honestly don't think any cruises will be happening in South America, or anywhere else, in 2020.

 

We haven't put any other monies into the SA cruise, as 3 cruises have been cancelled out from underneath us because of COVID already.  

 

Our plan is to cancel the cruise at final payment time in August if HAL hasn't cancelled.  We have flights from Fairbanks to Buenos Aires already, so IF the world happens to open up and IF cruising becomes a reality again before November, we will book the cruise again last minute.  We can cancel our flights any time before the cruise date.  They're mileage tickets.  30,000 Alaska Airlines miles + $19 per person.  From the top of the world to the bottom.  The deal of the century!  😂

 

I cannot see giving HAL anymore of my money right now with so much uncertainty in the travel industry.

Edited by Taters

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HAL cancellations are expanding, so I am beginning to suspect that they will end up cancelling the cruise to Brazil and up the Amazon as well.  The final payment is still a ways off and it will be to my advantage to wait.

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Amazing to see so many people here scared away from cruising. Do something every day that scares you? I am a high risk individual and am still willing to get back on the boat. We were also on one of the last cruises in March on the Rotterdam.  We could have canceled because of Covid fears but I am glad we didn't.  It was great seeing the Panama Canal and so many other great ports. 

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44 minutes ago, JeffElizabeth said:

Amazing to see so many people here scared away from cruising. Do something every day that scares you? I am a high risk individual and am still willing to get back on the boat. We were also on one of the last cruises in March on the Rotterdam.  We could have canceled because of Covid fears but I am glad we didn't.  It was great seeing the Panama Canal and so many other great ports. 

I think the majority of posters I have read have said their main concern is being stranded at sea and  being denied entry to a significant number of ports from the itinerary.  That is not fear, that is making rational decisions based on the latest data 

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