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Modified Cruise Ship Regulations No Longer Require Doctor Notes For Passengers Over 70


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54 minutes ago, KenzSailing said:

I have to admit, I did not see the backsliding by the cruise industry start quite this soon.

 

Not sure I would describe it as backsliding so much as correcting a "kneejerk" reaction to the virus. Early on WHO said those over 70 and/or with underlying health issues were most at risk, so suddenly cruise lines (forget which was first) started saying those over 70 need a health form.

 

The comment that struck me was Princess saying it would restrict those with underlying conditions, such as diabetes. With the prevalence of Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes in the North American population, that would probably limit the numbers even moreso than the original "Over 70" edict!

 

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----"The comment that struck me was Princess saying it would restrict those with underlying conditions, such as diabetes. With the prevalence of Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes in the North American population, that would probably limit the numbers even moreso than the original "Over 70" edict! "

 

Definitely agree with you Roland, DOUBT very much that  they will enforce that as a "stand alone" criteria 

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I doubt too many doctors would declare anybody fit to cruise, in this litigious society. Absolutely no upside, from the physician’s standpoint and a feeding frenzy for the trial attornies.

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13 minutes ago, Benita said:

I doubt too many doctors would declare anybody fit to cruise, in this litigious society. Absolutely no upside, from the physician’s standpoint and a feeding frenzy for the trial attornies.

 

The letter itself is nothing new -- it's actually an ordinary, normal thing that 's been around the industry for as long as I can remember.  Applying it to mass-market cruises was new, but the letter itself is something doctors have to certify for travelers all the time for certain types or trips or insurance purposes.  Based on my experience with my mother's doctor and getting her one, they don't bat an eyelash at it.

 

Vince

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2 hours ago, Stickman1990 said:

Crystal never required this - struggling to see why it’s a topic here 

 

At one point not that many days ago CLIA was proposing this as an industry requirement which would have affected Crystal had it come into effect.

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5 hours ago, Roland4 said:

 

At one point not that many days ago CLIA was proposing this as an industry requirement which would have affected Crystal had it come into effect.

Bingo.

 

And this is why I posted this here.

 

In the end, I suspect this is all going to evolve.

 

It's still evolving what to do on land and even in the air and at the airports.  Unfortunately I am not sure if that will be standard or vary by airport, restaurant, hotel and flight.

 

For flying it is certainly evolving.  For example, on American Airlines recently they issued something recommending masks be warn by passengers and yesterday they said starting May 11 they are required for all passengers.  I am glad they went with the latter.  Not sure how that works if you eat or drink but glad they are requiring it.

 

Keith

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As a very fit 70 year old, and from my observation of many other Crystal passenger more fit than most, the required Doctor's note was in my mind very discriminatory. If the issue is whether a person is in good enough health to combat CoVid19 or many other illness, age is no indicator. If underlying conditions are the issue then anyone, which is almost everyone, should be required to submit health information.  My husband and I travel often with a company that rates the activity level of their trips and asks participants to assess their ability to perform the tasks involved in the trip, than sign that they verify they are capable. We see this as quite reasonable. Very different from the physical fitness required for being a passenger on an ocean cruise.  

 

 

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This stupid form was a poorly though-out tactic for the cruise lines to shift the burden/responsibility of refusing embarkation of older passengers at high risk of dying from coronavirus (and other) infection, as well as at least part of the liability secondary to them becoming ill, to doctors.  The form was specifically designed to protect the cruise lines, not the passengers.  I'm glad enough people figured that out before the cruise lines decided to ditch this despicable strategy, which would have most likely resulted in most 70 yo and older passengers from being barred from cruising by their doctors (since doctors would not want to be responsible for the health and safety of a patient on board a cruise ship), or an emergence of shady doctors doing the opposite (because greed often trumps everything).  This was never going to end well.

Edited by Psoque
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I read one of the these forms from RCCL and can assure you, as a health care provider, would never sign it even for a healthy person.  As stated above, it was a complete shift of burden.  

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Any activity that is that much of a hazard that it needs a medical clearence, think skydiving, scuba diving, mountain climbing or speelunking isn't going to fill ships with passengers on a regular basis.  They better pray for a miracle cure that works because otherwise we just have to sit out a year and wait and see.  And while getting as doctors' certificate of health pre COVID was no big deal, post COVID I doubt medical professionals will want to take any risks on a killer virus.

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30 minutes ago, csto said:

I read one of the these forms from RCCL and can assure you, as a health care provider, would never sign it even for a healthy person.  As stated above, it was a complete shift of burden.  

Yes, also as a physician, I find the assumption by RCCL to think that I would even find the form in some bizarre way acceptable is utterly insulting.  When I saw the form for the first time, my reaction was *****!!!

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14 hours ago, Psoque said:

Yes, also as a physician, I find the assumption by RCCL to think that I would even find the form in some bizarre way acceptable is utterly insulting.  When I saw the form for the first time, my reaction was *****!!!

RCCL was the first to make it public but it was CLIA that proposed it.

 

Roy

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1 hour ago, rafinmd said:

RCCL was the first to make it public but it was CLIA that proposed it.

 

Roy

Thanks for the clarification.  However, this does not make RCCL any less guilty of doing what it did.  CLIA may have proposed it first, but RCCL chose to roll this out in the way it did.  The fact that CLIA (which RCCL is a member) proposed it gives RCCL absolutely no excuse to look stupid in this particular case.  Of course, other cruise lines that sent out the similar forms are equally guilty.

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The original CLIA proposal stated "license medical professional".  Does not mean a Doctor, could be a PA, Nurse Practitioner or even an RN..  

 

Actually it was NCL that did so first and even had the form on their web site one day after CLIA submitted this to VP Pence.  It still remains there...

 

https://www.ncl.com/sites/default/files/Certificate-of-Medical-Fitness-to-Travel-form.pdf

 

 

Edited by PaulMCO
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Whether the form is signed by your physician, physician assistant, nurse practitioner, nurse, your minister, your gardeners, or your dog, it does nothing to protect the passenger/patient onboard.  It only shifts the burden/responsibility of the cruise lines to the party who signs the form.  It was a poorly conceived idea that really reflects poorly on the cruise line industry and their selfish nature.

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