Congress to investigate Carnival Corporation’s handling of COVID-19 on its cruise ships

[PrincessLuver]

2 hours ago, npcl said:

There have been studies (supported also by contact tracing) that the only people at risk from a sick person on a plan is those in very close proximity to the ill individual. 1 row in front of and 2 row behind.   The crew is at risk during greeting passengers and during drink/meal service (close proximity, both crew and passenger talking)

 

As the CDC indicated they have not found any other setting that has the attack rate that they have seen on cruise ships.

 

But just to put things back in context my response was in response to the question as to why the media is going after cruise lines, not a discussion on spread dynamics.

 

The other issue with flying is that there is less physical contact on planes then can happen on a cruise ship.  Once passengers are seated they rarely move depending on the flight.  We love flying and almost always in FC and will soon be flying but not cruising.  Looking forward to traveling again through the air.

[bluesea321]

38 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Australia does not have community transmission of COVID. With virtually every case, it can be traced to a friend or relative who has been overseas, or in contact with an infected person who has been.

 

Hmm...  In the US community transmission includes those infections that "can be traced to a friend or relative who has been overseas or in contact with with an infected person who has been".  Travel related usually refers to actual travelers.  You guys that stayed loyal to the Queen use a different definition...   and by your definition no country would have community transmission except China since all COVID cases were obviously imported; into Australia, the US, Italy, etc.  The one big difference, to your credit, is that you guys have done extensive tracing.  Few countries have done so.

[npcl]

33 minutes ago, Thrak said:

 

I saw a great video of a moron in a mask and gloves who, when served food, pulled the mask down with the dirty gloves and then proceeded to eat a sandwich and stuff using the dirty gloves. Gloves can keep your hands clean but you have to be smart enough to understand that clean hands inside of gloves won't save you from the jive on the outside of the gloves. One reason this spreads so well is that there are so many freaking morons in the world.

Unless you are a medical professional and change gloves between patients, or have a cut or abrasion on your hands, you are better off to not wear gloves and just wash your hands.  Far less awkward than trying to deal with gloves in a proper manner.

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, bluesea321 said:

 

Hmm...  In the US community transmission includes those infections that "can be traced to a friend or relative who has been overseas or in contact with with an infected person who has been".  Travel related usually refers to actual travelers.  You guys that stayed loyal to the Queen use a different definition...   and by your definition no country would have community transmission except China since all COVID cases were obviously imported; into Australia, the US, Italy, etc.  The one big difference, to your credit, is that you guys have done extensive tracing.  Few countries have done so.

By 'Community transmission' I mean, someone who contracts COVID from someone they don't know - probably in public transport or in a shopping centre.

 

In Australia, we have had 6,847 confirmed cases, 5889 have recovered and 96 deaths. Our population is one-tenth of the US where there have been 1,230,000 confirmed cases, 164,000 recovered and 71,855 deaths.

[npcl]

5 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

By 'Community transmission' I mean, someone who contracts COVID from someone they don't know - probably in public transport or in a shopping centre.

 

In Australia, we have had 6,847 confirmed cases, 5889 have recovered and 96 deaths. Our population is one-tenth of the US where there have been 1,230,000 confirmed cases, 164,000 recovered and 71,855 deaths.

The advantages of being a bit more isolated, compared to the US where just before all this started there was  the equivalent in a bit more than 1/3 of Australia's population in international air travel each month.

 

If you can limit travel, especially outside travel, and keep initial counts low enough to contact trace you can pretty stop this.  Just as Hawaii and Alaska was able to.   The countries that are doing the best are those that can be easily isolated. Population density also enters into the equation.  High rises like New York bad, more spread out cities better, low density areas even better.

 

They are now saying that the virus has mutated and that it is the newer strain (more infectious) that is hitting Europe and the US.

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, npcl said:

The advantages of being a bit more isolated, compared to the US where just before all this started there was  the equivalent in a bit more than 1/3 of Australia's population in international air travel each month.

 

If you can limit travel, especially outside travel, and keep initial counts low enough to contact trace you can pretty stop this.  Just as Hawaii and Alaska was able to.   The countries that are doing the best are those that can be easily isolated. Population density also enters into the equation.  High rises like New York bad, more spread out cities better, low density areas even better.

 

They are now saying that the virus has mutated and that it is the newer strain (more infectious) that is hitting Europe and the US.

I agree totally. Australia restricted travel into the country very early. The government's aim at the start was also to 'flatten the curve' (rate of new infections) by isolating infected people and contract tracing of every case. As you say, our low density style of living is greatly to our advantage.

 

I am sorry to hear that there is now a newer strain that is more infectious. ☹️

[npcl]

1 minute ago, Aus Traveller said:

I agree totally. Australia restricted travel into the country very early. The government's aim at the start was also to 'flatten the curve' (rate of new infections) by isolating infected people and contract tracing of every case. As you say, our low density style of living is greatly to our advantage.

 

I am sorry to hear that there is now a newer strain that is more infectious. ☹️

Will at least in a month or two you might be able to open travel between New Zealand and Australia (I believe the stats are that 40 percent of the tourists visiting New Zealand are from Australia).

 

If you open up to Europe, the US or else where all the good work goes out the window, unless it is with enforced quarantines (in which case no one travels)/

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, npcl said:

Will at least in a month or two you might be able to open travel between New Zealand and Australia (I believe the stats are that 40 percent of the tourists visiting New Zealand are from Australia).

 

If you open up to Europe, the US or else where all the good work goes out the window, unless it is with enforced quarantines (in which case no one travels)/

In Australia, the government has mentioned an Aust-NZ 'bubble' - opening travel between the two countries. It has also been stated that restrictions on arrivals from elsewhere, or travel by Aussies to other parts of the world, will stay in place for much longer.

[PrincessLuver]

22 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I agree totally. Australia restricted travel into the country very early. The government's aim at the start was also to 'flatten the curve' (rate of new infections) by isolating infected people and contract tracing of every case. As you say, our low density style of living is greatly to our advantage.

 

I am sorry to hear that there is now a newer strain that is more infectious. ☹️

 

Australia, New Zealand, Norway and other countries that seemed to have used a united approach of sheltering in place, treatment, testing, tracking, proper and abundant medical supplies and other strategies has been hugely much more successful then the fragmented and "every state" for themselves approach that is evolving in the US now where rates of COVID-19 are still climbing at alarming rates.

Edited May 6, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[DaveSJ711]

5 minutes ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Australia, New Zealand, Norway and other countries that seemed to have used a united approach of sheltering in place, treatment, testing, tracking, proper and abundant medical supplies and other strategies has been hugely much successful then the fragmented and "every state" for themselves approach that is evolving in the US now.

 

Australia has six states, New Zealand doesn't have any states -- and the U.S. has 50 states.  Quite a difference.  Plus, we have the concept of federalism, as provided in the Tenth Amendment, which reserves powers to the states that aren't specifically delegated to the national government.  Under these circumstances, it's not surprising that the approach to dealing with COVID-19 is more fragmented here. 

[PrincessLuver]

3 minutes ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

Australia has six states, New Zealand doesn't have any states -- and the U.S. has 50 states.  Quite a difference.  Plus, we have the concept of federalism, as provided in the Tenth Amendment, which reserves powers to the states that aren't specifically delegated to the national government.  Under these circumstances, it's not surprising that the approach to dealing with COVID-19 is more fragmented here. 

 

I understand US history.....the point is it is not working here as well as many other places in the world that used a national, rational and systematic approach.....that's all I am saying....each to their own like Sweden.....

Edited May 6, 2020 by PrincessLuver

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Thrak said:

 

I saw a great video of a moron in a mask and gloves who, when served food, pulled the mask down with the dirty gloves and then proceeded to eat a sandwich and stuff using the dirty gloves. Gloves can keep your hands clean but you have to be smart enough to understand that clean hands inside of gloves won't save you from the jive on the outside of the gloves. One reason this spreads so well is that there are so many freaking morons in the world.

Twice this week I have seen people with masks around their chins and with a lit cigarette in their mouth. And today while shopping I saw one person with the elastic around his chin and his entire nose exposed. (And it was during an hour set aside for senior citizens and he looked like he was maybe 25 years old.)

[Aus Traveller]

2 hours ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

Australia has six states, New Zealand doesn't have any states -- and the U.S. has 50 states.  Quite a difference.  Plus, we have the concept of federalism, as provided in the Tenth Amendment, which reserves powers to the states that aren't specifically delegated to the national government.  Under these circumstances, it's not surprising that the approach to dealing with COVID-19 is more fragmented here. 

Australia also has a federal system where the states are responsible for quite a few areas of government and they can jealously guard their rights. Very early in the COVID crisis, our Prime Minister set up a 'National Cabinet' for the first time in our history. A couple of times a week, the PM has a tele-conference with the heads of our six states and two territories where decisions are made, although the implementation can vary a bit from state to state. This National Cabinet has leaders from both sides of the political spectrum, and it is this system of decision making that has probably contributed to the success Australia has had in containing this virus.

[npcl]

3 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

 

Australia, New Zealand, Norway and other countries that seemed to have used a united approach of sheltering in place, treatment, testing, tracking, proper and abundant medical supplies and other strategies has been hugely much more successful then the fragmented and "every state" for themselves approach that is evolving in the US now where rates of COVID-19 are still climbing at alarming rates.

The problem with the US is when it comes to public health the power resides with each individual states.  Thus the 50 different approaches.

 

The federal government can advise, as they have, but cannot dictate.  THe most successful states seem to be those that are generally following the CDC advice.  The federal gov has some regulatory authority such as the FDA for approval of drugs and devices.  Can throw money at the states.  Can fund research (NIH). But it cannot dictate policy to the states. 

 

 CDC's direct control is limited to preventing illness from entering the country and potentially some ability to limit movement between states, when it is determined that state action is insufficient.  There are regulations for the CDC to be able to utilize the USCG for enforcement when it comes to sea ports. 

[DaveSJ711]

6 minutes ago, npcl said:

The problem with the US is when it comes to public health the power resides with each individual states.  Thus the 50 different approaches.

 

The federal government can advise, as they have, but cannot dictate.  THe most successful states seem to be those that are generally following the CDC advice.  The federal gov has some regulatory authority such as the FDA for approval of drugs and devices.  Can throw money at the states.  Can fund research (NIH). But it cannot dictate policy to the states. 

 

 

That's the Tenth Amendment in a nutshell.  And working with 50 states and their governors is like herding cats -- not likely to succeed even under the best of circumstances.

[caribill]

8 hours ago, npcl said:

There have been studies (supported also by contact tracing) that the only people at risk from a sick person on a plane are those in very close proximity to the ill individual. 1 row in front of and 2 row behind. 

 

 

Plus those in the same row within six feet of you.

[AF-1]

Here is what Delta is doing to keep spacing. 

https://news.delta.com/ed-bastian-customer-update-were-together

[capriccio]

United's new policy:

 

• Limiting seat selections in all cabins, so customers won't be able to select seats next to each other or middle seats where available. We're also alternating window and aisle seats when seats are in pairs.
• Boarding & deplaning: We are boarding fewer customers at a time to allow for more distance during the boarding process. Following pre-boarding (a process that will not change), we will board back-to-front by rows, but will space out customers to minimize crowding in the gate area and on the jet bridge. We are also implementing a temporary front-to-back deplaning process as customers exit the aircraft.