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SS Future Re-Open Plan: Timing, Testing Needs??!!


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12 hours ago, Observer said:

I have been following this long thread and may have missed something.  (Indeed, lots of things.)

 

I assume that many others on the board are old enough, like me, to recall having to carry proof of smallpox vaccination.  I always kept the yellow card with my passport and carried this WHO certificate whenever I traveled abroad.

 

The attached image, taken from the web, was dated 1965. 

 

I anticipate that all guests (and crew) on cruise ships would be required to carry such proof of approved COVID-19 vaccination before boarding a ship.  Destination ports could be reassured that all visitors were thus vaccinated.

 

First, of course, we need a vaccine.  Then we need an effective distribution system.  Then, using some recognized certificate like the one widely used for smallpox, cruising could flourish.

 

image.thumb.jpeg.0fb0ea2d1b56526001afefa6a00a6533.jpeg

 

Hi.  The problem here, with such a certificate, is that as of the moment no one knows how if and how long, immunity lasts, and it will be the same with a vaccine.  Even if a vaccine is developed there would have to lengthy follow up-is it good for 6 months, one year, five years, or forever.  As I said in a previous post, months ago there was thought given to the creation of an "immunity passport" when it was thought that having contacted the disease it would create immunity and the person would be safe.  It has since been proven, in a quote I posted yesterday citing a NYTimes article, and there are other sources, that no one really knows whether having the disease creates immunity and its duration.  I have really been thinking about the lengthy and well thought out comments Terry and Kimanjo posted earlier on this topic and later I want to return to discussing Kimanjo's third scenario in which no universal effective vaccine is developed and its implications.  It's not really something I want to think about. This is so damn complicated  

Edited by chrism23
clarity
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It’s not been “proven” but most sources that I have read recently are pretty confident that lasting immunity can be achieved. If  not, then we might as well save our money on vaccine research because they likely won’t work either!

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33 minutes ago, tosteve1 said:

It’s not been “proven” but most sources that I have read recently are pretty confident that lasting immunity can be achieved. If  not, then we might as well save our money on vaccine research because they likely won’t work either!

 

Agree there are many various questions as to vaccines and the levels of immunity.  Right?  My rough recollection (without benefit of being a medical professional) is that there is the potential for mutations with this current Covid-19.  What might work for some now might not be effective in later years??!!  As to the yellow card for small pox, we needed to get certain vaccinations to prepare for our 2015 sailing up the Amazon River.   While I could do the yellow fever shot, my wife could not due to an immune issue she possesses.  The Brazil and ship officials wanted us to have that yellow card to document what protections we had.  There is clearly "science" involved related to ALL of these many issues, but at times certain protections and effectiveness as vaccines and protection levels gets a little blurred.  Right or wrong?  What major am I missing?

 

 From MSN news and the Gulf News from the UAE today, they had this headline: “Saudi port of Dhaba welcomes first cruise ship” with these highlights related to the re-start of this Silversea ship: “The Saudi port of Dhaba on Sunday received Silver Spirit, the first cruise ship entering to the Kingdom’s ports for refuelling and taking part in the Saudi Tourism Authority’s ‘Break Free’ summer season campaign.  Saudi Arabian cruises will set sail in the Red Sea for the first time on August 27.  The initiative is part of the Kingdom’s efforts 'to provide leisure tourism services on the Red Sea, providing a wider array of options and raising awareness of the many natural and cultural treasures that lie along the Saudi Red Sea coast.'  The new campaign seeks to highlight various tourist attractions along the Red Sea coast.  Saudi Arabia has begun to attract international tourists following its decision to issue tourist visas in September 2019.”

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/other/saudi-port-of-dhaba-welcomes-first-cruise-ship/ar-BB18i3Iv

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Panama Canal? Early 2017, Fort Lauderdale to San Francisco adventure through Panama Canal.  Our first stops in Colombia, Central America and Mexico, plus added time in the great Golden Gate City. Now at 30,049 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2465580

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17 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

We can see you Terry.

6A07998C-CCF5-4397-875D-651AFB242FFB.jpeg

 

Great to see this visual from Silver Spectre of the Oceania Regatta as we BOTH were tendered in dramatically scenic Bora Bora.  As I recall, you were headed in the western direction and that your Silversea cruise had challenges and schedule adjustments as the Covid-19 situation was ramping up.  Is my memory correct?  Seems like long ago when the times were very different??!!

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Kotor/Montenegro:  Exciting visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this scenic, historic location. Over 47,808 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439193

 

Here is the Silver Whisper being tendered in early March 2020 in Bora Bora, French Polynesia.  Fun trip with many exciting adventures!!:

(Open your screen/viewer wider to see this visual larger/better!)

CMC_0962.jpeg.c9f7f96b0902688e153feec92efdc718.jpeg

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6 hours ago, chrism23 said:

This is so damn complicated  

It sure is. And while it feels like an eternity has passed since this started, it's really just been a blink of the eye. The scientists likely have no data really on those who have recovered. And the trustworthiness of the tests still seems to be in question. They will have to look BACK and crunch the numbers.

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2 hours ago, clo said:

It sure is. And while it feels like an eternity has passed since this started, it's really just been a blink of the eye. The scientists likely have no data really on those who have recovered. And the trustworthiness of the tests still seems to be in question. They will have to look BACK and crunch the numbers.

 

Agree with the above follow-up that "it" has been both a "blink of the eye" and seems like a long time ago to when ALL of this stared earlier this year.  Also, you are correct that so much has happened so quickly, that there have been limits as to how the data has been carefully and fully assembled, reviewed and analyzed, etc.  There is still so much that the medical and science experts have not yet reviewed completely.  Much more to learn and know.    

 

From the South Florida Business Journal earlier this month, they had this headline: “Behind the Deal: Why Royal Caribbean inked a $245M acquisition with cruising on pause” regarding how RCCL finalize with stock their purchase of the remaining share of Silversea.  This reporting gives more background behind this "deal" and what is ahead for Silversea.  

 

Here are some of the highlights from their review: “Royal Caribbean Group's $245 million buyout of Silversea Cruises signaled the company's expansion efforts are not idle, even if its ships are.  Jason Liberty, CFO of Royal Caribbean Group, said after Royal Caribbean purchased the first two-thirds of Silversea in 2018, it was always the company's intention to purchase the remainder. 'We had a longer horizon in mind for the deal,' Liberty said. 'It’s probably not the most ideal time to be dealing with M&A-related stuff, but when an opportunity comes forth … that doesn’t further stress the organization, you need to take advantage of that.'  Liberty added the current pandemic lowered the valuation of Silversea Cruises, which made Royal Caribbean more aggressive to complete the deal. It will take a lot of capital to bring Silversea's nine-ship fleet back online when cruising resumes, Liberty explained, and potentially years until the cruise industry makes a full recovery. Royal's ability to carry out the deal with a stock exchange helped the company hold onto capital to use when operations resume.”

 

Here is more insights as to their future outlook for Silversea: "Now that Silversea is a wholly owned subsidiary of Royal Caribbean Group, the cruise line can move more quickly on its expansion plans, said Silversea Cruises CEO Roberto Martinoli, who will remain in the position.  Martinoli said the cruise line has four ships slated for delivery between now and 2024, one of which is expected to be complete by the end of 2020. Royal Caribbean's financing of new builds since 2018, as well as its connection to shipyards around the would, helped Silversea plan such a rapid expansion.  'We would not have been able to materialize this load so quickly without Royal Caribbean because we were such a small company,' he said.   Liberty said Royal Caribbean was in tentative discussions with Silversea owner Manfredi Lefebvre d’Ovidio at the start of the year, but it wasn't until late March that serious negotiations began. By June, the two sides had come to terms.  A deal of this magnitude would normally be sealed with a flurry of handshakes for everyone involved. This time, they had to settle for virtual high fives.  Martinoli added that Liberty ensured him even if the pandemic causes more delays on these deliveries, Royal intends to move forward with all four new ships."

 

Interesting background and insights as to the future hopes and plans for Silversea.  Reactions and comments??

 

Full story at:

https://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2020/08/14/why-royal-caribbean-bought-silversea-cruises.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Dubrovnik!  Nice visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this super scenic location. Over 47,444 views.    

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439227

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1 hour ago, TLCOhio said:

Royal intends to move forward with all four new ships."

 

Interesting background and insights as to the future hopes and plans for Silversea.  Reactions and comments??

 

Can hardly wait to see what these two new "Evolution" class ships will not only look like, but what the design will include, as well as new amenities offered, when the new ship names are ultimately announced.

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4 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

 

Can hardly wait to see what these two new "Evolution" class ships will not only look like, but what the design will include, as well as new amenities offered, when the new ship names are ultimately announced.

 

  • All suites now offer positive pressure for expelling air externally!
  • Isolation suites which allow sick or quarantined guests to enjoy large screen televisions and the best amenities available while locked inside!
  • Expanded medical center, with more ventilators per passenger than any ship afloat!
  • All-new "Welcome Back!" boarding areas with facial recognition thermal imaging sensors to insure fast and easy scanning of passengers rebounding after excursions!
  • Fast 15-minute COVID testing kits refreshed in suite daily, along with water and beverages!

😉

 

 

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13 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

 

Can hardly wait to see what these two new "Evolution" class ships will not only look like, but what the design will include, as well as new amenities offered, when the new ship names are ultimately announced.

Wow!  This a step in the right direction.  The best parts are the enhanced HVA systems (should be the whole ship)  and the 15 minute COVID tests when returning to your suite.  The crew needs this too.  I am not sure if a reliable 15 minute saliva tests exists, but if not one is surely coming.  Anyhow.  What doesn't do much for me are the ventilators.  Ventilators are the intervention of absolute last resort and require trained personnel to monitor them 24 hours a day.  You have to be extremely sick to be put on a ventilator, and that condition almost always takes days to developed.  If someone is that sick, then the screening process has failed.  And the mortality rate for those on ventilators, without an exact number, is around 50%.  So ventilators could be used to get a passenger to the next port with a hospital and an ICU alive.  Which of course is good and gives me some peace of mind.  Second, the thermal recognition sensor (temperature check) is somewhat of a gimmick.  If I come back from a day at a beach my temp might be 100ish.  Or a hike in the arctic 96ish.  But, if the person is 103 ish they don't get on the ship and get taken to the local hospital.  And again, the initial screening probably didn't work. The isolation suites, meh, I don't watch TV.  And if quarantined  we get back to the issue of getting a sick passenger off the ship, at some port of call.  The chance of this happening in almost any country is probably 0. And if the criteria for a passenger to be released from quarantine is a negative COVID test, this simply won't work.  My mother-in-law was diagnosed with COVID back in June and has been hospitalized since, and her COVID test came back negative for the first time yesterday.  (Thank God).   

 

So all in all, there are some good ideas here,  Definitely steps in the right direction.  In Identifying problems I don't won't to be cynical, just pointing  out there is still away to go.  I am still not smelling the scent of ocean water yet but its getting closer.  

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5 minutes ago, philipb said:

Cunard suspends all sailing plans before March 2022:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-53904221

 

I expect other major cruise lines to follow suit.

SS certainly has not followed suit, I asked my PCC about my upcoming booking in January, she said SS was still a go on this cruise and others that depart before.........  I’m sure that is Just the company’s script....... particularly since NZ and OZ have said they won’t be open until sometime in 2021, maybe March or April.  Still looking to collect final payments on cruises that have no possibility of happening, IMHO

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31 minutes ago, philipb said:

Cunard suspends all sailing plans before March 2022:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-53904221

I expect other major cruise lines to follow suit.

 

Appreciate the posting of this BBC "Breaking News" and the various follow-ups.  But the March 2022 date is not quite correct.   It's March 2021!!

 

From the BBC today, they had this headline: “Coronavirus: Cunard cruises suspended until March” with these highlights: “The suspension of Cunard cruises has been extended until March due to the coronavirus pandemic. It means the Southampton-based company, which is part of the Carnival group, will have paused operations for an entire year. All sailings have been cancelled for Queen Elizabeth until 25 March, Queen Mary 2 until 18 April, and Queen Victoria until 16 May.  Mr Palethorpe said all of next year's Queen Elizabeth's sailings in and around Australia, Japan and Alaska would be replaced with 'shorter duration European holidays ranging from three to 14 nights'.”

 

Also of significant importance this morning,, there were several major news stories that raise legitimate questions as to how long any such vaccinations would provide protection.  From ABC TV news, they had this headline: 1st documented COVID-19 reinfection isn't surprising, but may offer important clues about virus, experts say” with these highlights: “Back in March, a 33-year old man from Hong Kong came down with a fever and a cough.  He spent two weeks in a hospital battling COVID-19, but by mid-April he had recovered.  In August, the man traveled to Spain, stopping for a layover in the United Kingdom. When he returned home to Hong Kong, he tested positive for the virus, again. The second time around, however, the man felt fine.  He didn't feel sick, but he was. He may have been symptom-free, but COVID-19 was back in his system. In what scientists are calling the world's first documented reinfection, researchers in Hong Kong are telling and investigating the story of the man, who seemingly recovered from the virus, only to become infected again, nearly five months later. Specialists interviewed by ABC News are urging the public not to panic, noting that reinfection was always a possibility, just like the common cold.  Specialists said reinfections like this are probably still rare, and one man's experience with COVID-19 is unlikely to be the average person's experience.”

 

Full stories at:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-53904221

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/1st-documented-covid-19-reinfection-surprising-offer-important/story?id=72585026

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Athens & Greece: Many visuals, details from two visits in a city with great history, culture and architecture.  Now at 36,185 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1101008

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6 minutes ago, TLCOhio said:

 

Appreciate the posting of this BBC "Breaking News" and the various follow-ups.  But the March 2022 date is not quite correct.   It's March 2021!!

 

From the BBC today, they had this headline: “Coronavirus: Cunard cruises suspended until March” with these highlights: “The suspension of Cunard cruises has been extended until March due to the coronavirus pandemic. It means the Southampton-based company, which is part of the Carnival group, will have paused operations for an entire year. All sailings have been cancelled for Queen Elizabeth until 25 March, Queen Mary 2 until 18 April, and Queen Victoria until 16 May.  Mr Palethorpe said all of next year's Queen Elizabeth's sailings in and around Australia, Japan and Alaska would be replaced with 'shorter duration European holidays ranging from three to 14 nights'.”

 

Also of significant importance this morning,, there were several major news stories that raise legitimate questions as to how long any such vaccinations would provide protection.  From ABC TV news, they had this headline: 1st documented COVID-19 reinfection isn't surprising, but may offer important clues about virus, experts say” with these highlights: “Back in March, a 33-year old man from Hong Kong came down with a fever and a cough.  He spent two weeks in a hospital battling COVID-19, but by mid-April he had recovered.  In August, the man traveled to Spain, stopping for a layover in the United Kingdom. When he returned home to Hong Kong, he tested positive for the virus, again. The second time around, however, the man felt fine.  He didn't feel sick, but he was. He may have been symptom-free, but COVID-19 was back in his system. In what scientists are calling the world's first documented reinfection, researchers in Hong Kong are telling and investigating the story of the man, who seemingly recovered from the virus, only to become infected again, nearly five months later. Specialists interviewed by ABC News are urging the public not to panic, noting that reinfection was always a possibility, just like the common cold.  Specialists said reinfections like this are probably still rare, and one man's experience with COVID-19 is unlikely to be the average person's experience.”

 

Full stories at:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-53904221

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/1st-documented-covid-19-reinfection-surprising-offer-important/story?id=72585026

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Athens & Greece: Many visuals, details from two visits in a city with great history, culture and architecture.  Now at 36,185 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1101008

 

Sorry Terry, my ham-fisted typing (and poor eyesight - currently awaiting eye surgery to replace lens in my left eye, next month!)

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5 hours ago, philipb said:

Sorry Terry, my ham-fisted typing (and poor eyesight - currently awaiting eye surgery to replace lens in my left eye, next month!)

 

We ALL have our challenges where our fingers, eyes, brains, etc., are not working perfectly these days.  Understand fully!!  This includes having the years kind of run together and get mixed up. Now, I get confused as to what month it is, etc.  

 

From USA Today this morning, they had this headline: British cruise line Cunard won't sail until spring 2021, with some cruises canceled into May with these added highlights: “British cruise line Cunard has extended its pause in operations until spring 2021. Cunard's three ships, the Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mary 2 and the Queen Victoria, all have different restart dates. The Queen Mary 2 is scheduled to sail again on April 18 and the Queen Victoria won't sail until May 16.  And although the Queen Elizabeth's operational pause ends March 25, the vessel won't sail any of its scheduled itineraries.  The canceled voyages are to be replaced by shorter European-centric trips around Cornwall in southwestern England, the Scottish Isles and the west coast of Ireland There will also be trips to Amsterdam with an overnight in the city and trips to other European destinations including Spain's Iberian coast and Norway. All the new itineraries vary from three to 14 nights and will depart from Southampton beginning at the end of March.

 

My view is that this is a big, BIG news item that will play out in the future with many other cruise lines.  Sadly, much more is to come over the next few weeks or months.  This will include, when a re-start happens, for shorter cruises with more limited port itineraries.

 

Full story at:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/08/25/cunard-line-extends-sailing-suspension-into-spring-2021/5630643002/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Lisbon, NWSpain, Bordeaux/Brittany: Live/blog, June 2017 from Portugal to France along scenic Atlantic Coast.  Now at 31,059 views.  Many interesting pictures, details for history, food, culture, etc.:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2511358

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Airlines continue as one of the three "basis" needed to do a successful cruising re-start.  News, however, continues to be less than ideal.  

 

From the Wall Street Journal this afternoon, they had this headline: American Airlines to Cut 19,000 Jobs by Oct. 1 When Federal Stimulus Ends” with this subhead: "Airline to shrink workforce by 30% as travel continues to slump amid the coronavirus pandemic."

 

Here are some of their story highlights: “American Airlines said it would shed 19,000 workers by Oct. 1 as the carrier prepares to downsize to cope with the coronavirus pandemic’s blow to travel demand, which isn’t expected to rebound for years. American’s cuts are less than the 25,000 potential job losses it warned were possible last month. But together with retirements and temporary leaves of absence, the reductions will make the carrier about 30% smaller than it was in March and are the clearest sign yet of the devastation coming for the airline industry as the summer travel season winds down and government funds run out.  'It was assumed that by Sept. 30, the virus would be under control and demand for air travel would have returned. That is obviously not the case,' American Chief Executive Doug Parker wrote. American plans to fly less than half its typical schedule in the fourth quarter.”

 

Other airlines are in process for finalizing their their fall schedules.  All signs point to more limited schedules and fewer flight options. 

 

Full story at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-airlines-to-cut-19-000-jobs-11598367869?mod=hp_lead_pos1

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Panama Canal? Early 2017, Fort Lauderdale to San Francisco adventure through Panama Canal.  Our first stops in Colombia, Central America and Mexico, plus added time in the great Golden Gate City. Now at 30,059 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2465580

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1 hour ago, TLCOhio said:

My view is that this is a big, BIG news item that will play out in the future with many other cruise lines.

Stay away from the US! Also stay close to home, just in case....

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15 minutes ago, TLCOhio said:

Airlines continue as one of the three "basis" needed to do a successful cruising re-start.  News, however, continues to be less than ideal.  

 

Our SS cruise is the Galapagos for 9/21, with possible full cancel by 6/21. I wonder how many airlines will be flying from the US to Quito, Ecuador.

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11 hours ago, chrism23 said:

My mother-in-law was diagnosed with COVID back in June and has been hospitalized since, and her COVID test came back negative for the first time yesterday.  (Thank God). 


Sorry to hear that your mother-in-law has been hospitalized 2-months, but so very thankful she has received her first negative test.  May she heal quickly and completely.

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22 hours ago, cruiseej said:

 

  • All suites now offer positive pressure for expelling air externally!
  • Isolation suites which allow sick or quarantined guests to enjoy large screen televisions and the best amenities available while locked inside!
  • Expanded medical center, with more ventilators per passenger than any ship afloat!
  • All-new "Welcome Back!" boarding areas with facial recognition thermal imaging sensors to insure fast and easy scanning of passengers rebounding after excursions!
  • Fast 15-minute COVID testing kits refreshed in suite daily, along with water and beverages!

😉

 

 

13 hours ago, chrism23 said:

Wow!  This a step in the right direction.... enhanced HVA systems... 15 minute COVID tests... ventilators...

 

I'm sorry that it didn't come through clearly enough, but my post was entirely satirical. 🙂

 

I actually have no idea the features and amenities of the new ships; I was just poking fun at how all the marketing could be about safety from COVID, with health care replacing the normal hype about the bedding, soaps, dining and other luxury accoutrements of Silversea cruising. 

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1 hour ago, Stumblefoot said:


Sorry to hear that your mother-in-law has been hospitalized 2-months, but so very thankful she has received her first negative test.  May she heal quickly and completely.

I agree........Chris, hoping she is able to heal without too many complications (or any).  From some of things I have

read, some folks have various issues from this virus for a long, long time.

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3 hours ago, TLCOhio said:

All signs point to more limited schedules and fewer flight options. 

 

Terry, one of the key items in the stories about American's plans is that while American plans to fly less than half its typical schedule in the fourth quarter,  international long-haul flights will be just 25% of its 2019 schedule. I'm sure they'll ramp up within a few months when they see consumer demand increasing, but they clearly see the demand -- and in some cases, even feasibility -- for international flights to be quite limited for the foreseeable future. And that's one of the key "pillars" for any significant resumption fo cruising. The next test will be whether they see demand for next summer's vacation travel season increasing enough to increase flights; the 4th and 1st quarters seem to already be written off.

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