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SS Future Re-Open Plan: Timing, Testing Needs??!!


TLCOhio
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Appreciate these important comments and follow-ups from Doc Ruth, cruiseej and frantic36.  Much happening and many questions are arising and/or hanging around.   

 

From this below Florida news site this morning, they had this headline: “Royal Caribbean postponing 'Odyssey of the Seas' maiden voyage after crew members tests positive for COVID-19” with these highlights: “Royal Caribbean is postponing the inaugural voyage of one of its ships from a Florida port because some crew members tested positive for COVID-19.   Royal Caribbean is postponing the voyage of its newest ship Odyssey of the Seas from Fort Lauderdale by a few weeks because eight of its crew members tested positive for COVID-19.  The company said although all 1,400 crew members received the vaccine, the positive tests came before the vaccines were fully effective.   The postponing of the voyage is out of an abundance of caution, and the company said passengers who were booked on the Odyssey will be given other options.    The Odyssey's journey was planned for July 3, but is now pushed back to July 31.”

 

Ouch??!!  Eight crew members is significant?  Not being vaccinated enough ahead of time to have this treatment be fully effective?

 

Full story at:

https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2021/06/16/royal-caribbean-s-newest-ship-inaugural-voyage-postponed

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Dubrovnik!  Nice visual samples, tips, details, etc., for this super scenic and historic location. Over 47,952 views.    

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1439227

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From super experienced former USA Today travel expert Gene Sloan this morning, his current website had this headline: “6 changes we’ve seen on the first Royal Caribbean cruise in North America in 15 months” with these highlights: “It’s not nearly as different as you might have expected.   That, in a sentence, is my big takeaway after four days on board Adventure of the Seas — the first Royal Caribbean ship to restart operations in North America since the start of the coronavirus pandemic 15 months ago.  Sure, there have been some notable changes.  In a nod to social distancing, many venues have a significant number of seats blocked off. Passengers now need a reservation to go to the gym and are encouraged to make reservations for the buffet, too.  But, for the most part, the experience on board is pretty normal.   Notably, sun worshippers still are swaying to live reggae music up at the main pool deck, and soaking in the hot tubs and pools — no masks required. Evenings still are a bustle of dining and dancing and drinking.  In addition, the ship still is making port stops like it always has, with little in the experience changed.   The bottom line is that, despite some COVID-19 changes, if you liked the Royal Caribbean cruise experience before the cruise industry shut down in early 2020, you’ll probably still like it now.”

 

Personally, I really love the idea of being poolside and hearing "live reggae music"!!

 

Here is another key item he shared: "Good news, mask haters: You probably won’t have to wear one on Adventure of the Seas. Or, at least, most of you won’t.  The only passengers who have to wear masks on board Adventure of the Seas are those who are not vaccinated for COVID-19. On this sailing, that amounts to just a few dozen people."

 

Full story at:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/royal-caribbean-cruise-ship-changes-coronavirus/

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Athens & Greece: Many visuals, details from two visits in a city with great history, culture and architecture.  Now at 39,063 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1101008

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From a major trade publication this morning, they had this headline: “Crewing looms large among return-to-service challenges for cruise lines” with these highlights: “It's a challenge the whole industry faces, according to Anders Aasen, VP global technical solutions, Royal Caribbean Group, since many crew have found jobs ashore in their own countries during the shutdown.   The difficulty is not so much with the shipboard leadership positions, Aasen said, but with rank and file crew.  'It's not been easy to get crew,' concurred Holly Love, VP medical operations, Vikand Solutions.   Plus, 'access to approved vaccines for our crew is still very difficult,' she said, along with the lack of consistency in documentation requirements for vaccination.   Crew vaccination seems to be proceeding well in the US, at least, where cruise ports in Florida, Texas, Alabama and California have stepped up, with thousands of crew inoculated.  But that's not the case everywhere in the world.  With Royal Caribbean Group ships starting up, Aasen noted passengers are not as fearful of the virus now, thanks to scientific advances and vaccination. However, they are afraid of getting stuck on a ship should something happen.  'Now we have port agreements so ships won't be blocked,' he said.”

 

Full story at:

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/environmental-health/crewing-looms-large-among-return-service-challenges-cruise-lines-dnv-panel

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Lisbon, NWSpain, Bordeaux/Brittany: Live/blog, June 2017 from Portugal to France along scenic Atlantic Coast on the Silver Spirit.  Now at 31,734 views.  Many interesting pictures, details for history, food, culture, etc.:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2511358

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From the New York Times this morning, they had this headline: “American tourists could soon be allowed freer travel to Europe” with these highlights: “The European Union is expected to recommend lifting the ban on nonessential travel for visitors from the United States on Friday, opening for American tourists just in time for the summer season, which is crucial to the economy of many members of the bloc.  On Wednesday, ambassadors of the E.U. countries indicated their support for adding the United States to the list of countries considered safe from an epidemiological point of view, a bloc official confirmed. The decision is expected to be formally adopted on Friday and would come into effect immediately.  In principle, all travelers from   countries on the safe list, not just citizens or residents, would be allowed to enter the bloc for nonessential reasons, such as tourism or visiting family, even if they are not vaccinated, without any further restrictions. The European Commission, the European Union’s executive arm, recommended that a PCR test should be required, but it is ultimately up to national governments to set out the specific rules, including any need to quarantine.   The move is part of a broader attempt to restore tourism flows within and from outside the European Union. Travel from outside the bloc was practically suspended last year to limit the spread of the coronavirus, with the exception of a handful of countries that fulfilled specific criteria, such as low infection rates, number of tests performed, and their overall response to Covid-19.  The loosening of travel measures was enabled by the fast pace of vaccination in the United States and by the acceleration of the inoculation campaign in Europe.”

 

Full story at:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/06/16/world/covid-vaccine-coronavirus-mask

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Panama Canal? Early 2017, Fort Lauderdale to San Francisco adventure through Panama Canal.  Our first stops in Colombia, Central America and Mexico, plus added time in the great Golden Gate City. Now at 30,633 views.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2465580

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10 hours ago, cruiseej said:

 

For a ship of fully vaccinated passengers and crew? In theory not too much, right? Even with Delta, vaccinated people are not at any significant increased risk. But there may be more people who throw a positive test, even though they're asymptomatic. We know there will be cases, even on a vaccinated ship So some individuals may have their cruise ruined (isolated to their room, forced disembarkation in a port prior to the end of the cruise), but the overall ship/cruise should not be adversely affected.

 

For ships sailing with people not required to be vaccinated, including kids who cannot yet be vaccinated, it's a different story. There's potential for more cases, and people actually getting sick. A more contagious variant increases those odds. A few "sick ships" with multiple Covid patients could disrupt cruising on a larger scale.

 

We have a cruise planned, Antarctic in November.  If the sailing actually happens, our plan is to mitigate our chances of "picking up" the virus along the way to the point of embarkation. We are both fully vaccinated.

I flew once in October 2020, and was absolutely SHOCKED at the resturants in Atlanta.  Shoulder to shoulder maskless people eating and drinking.  That is where I see the potential of picking up a case, and being one of the few breakthrough cases. I wore my mask from the parking lot at the airport at home, til I got outside at my final destination. Not taking it off at all. Luckily it was 2 short 1 hour flights.

 I will try and do that this time too. .If I do have to remove it to eat or drink at the airport, find a quiet place far, far, away from other people.  Eat outside in Santiago. Wear a mask everywhere. I will continue to wear a mask here in my community of only 40% vaccinated if it stays that low in November.

It's not a fear of getting sick, it's a fear of picking up the virus and being asymptomatic and being tested and coming up positive, and having to be denied boarding or placed in quarantine.

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, kimanjo said:

It's not a fear of getting sick, it's a fear of picking up the virus and being asymptomatic and being tested and coming up positive, and having to be denied boarding or placed in quarantine.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

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7 hours ago, frantic36 said:

Which is why they should for now only sail with fully vaccinated passenger and crew.

 

Which is why we'd book on Silversea but not some other cruise lines. (Well, there are other reasons, too. 😉 )

 

But my concern is that if other cruise lines which aren't requiring vaccinated passengers, like the large mass market lines, run into significant Covid problems, they could need up dragging down cruising for the luxury lines which are using more stringent rules if countries/ports decide to block cruise ships again.

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47 minutes ago, kimanjo said:

It's not a fear of getting sick, it's a fear of picking up the virus and being asymptomatic and being tested and coming up positive, and having to be denied boarding or placed in quarantine.

 

Bingo!

 

We're headed for an Antartica cruise in December, and the big question is whether Silversea will find a way to navigate traveling through South America to get us to and from the ship. For instance, might we fly to Santiago and be quarantined in the hotel until the charter flight to the ship? (I'd like to see a little of Santiago, but I'd be okay with staying in the hotel for 18 hours or so if that was what was necessary to pull off safe travel.)

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When can that worry stop though? As it will probably never be possible to vaccinate the whole world. Will we never travel again? 

 

The UK has 65 million people and I think they, like us, will all be going to Cornwall this summer. It will be heaving! We have to one day go somewhere else?

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29 minutes ago, worldtraveller99 said:

When can that worry stop though? As it will probably never be possible to vaccinate the whole world. Will we never travel again?

 

The best chance for this worry to stop is when we get data suggesting that vaccinated people are very unlikely to transmit the virus to each other.

 

So then it will make no sense to test asymptomatic vaccinated people at all. My personal bias is that it's not very useful but there isn't enough data to gamble that way yet, and drop testing requirements.

 

Reason - the PCR test is overly sensitive. It can detect fragments of non-viable viral DNA. So if you have a piece of "dead" COVID-19 in your nose, you'll potentially test positive. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're sick, or that you're contagious. But right now we lack a test to determine that - so you're treated as if you are. 

 

I think it will take time and experience. Hopefully the latter is good...

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1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

 

Bingo!

 

We're headed for an Antartica cruise in December, and the big question is whether Silversea will find a way to navigate traveling through South America to get us to and from the ship. For instance, might we fly to Santiago and be quarantined in the hotel until the charter flight to the ship? (I'd like to see a little of Santiago, but I'd be okay with staying in the hotel for 18 hours or so if that was what was necessary to pull off safe travel.)

 

Ours is Puenta Arenas to USH.  We have our own flights to SCL.  And we plan on staying in SCL with masks as mush as possible.  Like I said, eat outside if we can, if not, hole up in our hotel room.  Then flight to PUQ. Same thing, staying as masked as possible.  Almost a "self-quarantine". Our air is separate from SS, so they really have no control over our movements.  We have to self police, and they have to trust us??

 

Then dis-embarking in USH,  I suspect, because it's a different arrival country, they will herd us directly from the ship to the charter flights back to SCL. Keep us collected, until our evening flights out of SCL.

 

This is all my guessing.  I think countries are starved for tourist $$$.  If they see this much effort on pax and cruislines, with 100% vaxxed, the potential harm to their own citizens appears to be very, very low.  And dangers of a vaxxed pax, getting very ill, and having to use hospital resources in Chile, for example, also, very, very unlikely.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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Super appreciate ALL of the great and various comments and follow-ups from kimanjo, fletcher32, cruiseej, worldtraveler99 and J.P.   Keep it coming!!  Great sharing!!  We are looking at Antarctica options for early 2022.  Interested as to what happens for travel in that part of the world, especially given that currently travel to Argentina and Chile is not allowed.   These areas will open up.  BUT, when and how? 

 

From MSN News and a Tampa TV station in Florida yesterday, they had this headline: Some cruise lines vow to defy Florida's ban on proof of vaccination with these highlights: “Carnival Cruise Line says it will start sailing again at the end of next month; and when it does, it will require vaccinations even though doing that could violate the state’s new law banning companies from requiring customers to show proof of vaccinations.  'The overwhelming majority, over 90 percent of our customers are saying they want to be on the ship with people that are vaccinated,' said Don O’Neal, the president of the Travelworld travel agency. 'And I think Carnival has figured out that that is a much larger pool of customers than the few that don’t want to be vaccinated.'   Carnival’s decision would, for now, put it at odds with Gov. Ron DeSantis’ order and a recently passed Florida law prohibiting proof of vaccine requirements.  'You know, it’s like a giant game of poker,' O’Neal said. 'They’re waiting to see who folds first.'  Norwegian Cruise Line recently said that it, too, would require proof of vaccination, even threatening to sail from ports outside of Florida.  Royal Caribbean said it was backing off its vaccine requirement but could create a two-tier pricing system with those who don’t voluntarily show proof of vaccination getting charged more.”

 

Here is more from this reporting: "Travel experts say things are changing on an almost daily basis, from vaccine policies to itineraries and even moving ships around. The cruise lines, experts add, are watching each other to see who blinks first and how these policy decisions impact their business and their bookings."

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/some-cruise-lines-vow-to-defy-floridas-ban-on-proof-of-vaccination/ar-AAL4FeD?ocid=BingNewsSearch

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

From late 2018, see “Holy Lands, Egypt, Jordan, Oman, Dubai, Greece, etc.”, with many visuals, details and ideas for the historic and scenic Middle East. Now at 19,779 views.  Connect at:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2607054-livenautica-greece-holy-lands-egypt-dubai-terrypix’s/

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From the South Florida Sun-Sentinel newspaper in Fort Lauderdale yesterday, they had this headline: “Poll shows vast majority of Floridians disagree on DeSantis policy, think it’s OK to require COVID-19 vaccinations for cruise passengers” with these highlights: “More than three-quarters of Floridians in a poll released Wednesday disagree with Gov. Ron DeSantis’ policy banning cruise lines from requiring passengers to show proof of COVID-19 vaccination.  The survey, conducted by the University of South Florida School of Public Affairs, found just 24% said cruise lines should not be allowed to require guests to show proof of vaccination — which is Gov. Ron DeSantis’ position.  A plurality, 43%, said it should be mandatory for passengers to provide proof of vaccination on all cruises that port in Florida. And another 33% said it should be up to individual cruise lines. Neither of those options is allowed under rules championed and signed into law by DeSantis.  The USF poll found support for mandatory vaccinations was strongest when it came to cruises, but somewhat less about the state’s other big tourism draw: theme parks.

 

Still no word yet from Tampa as to when and what the Federal Judge will rule on this case and battle between the State of Florida versus the CDC over these vaccine policy questions.

 

Full story at:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-florida-poll-cruise-ship-theme-park-school-vaccine-requirements-20210616-qaiozhbvurhrplkwh5fuvyeoqa-story.html

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Completed 2019 summer with Calgary, Jasper/Banff National Parks, Western Canada Rocky Mountaineer rail adventure, Vancouver, sailing up to Alaska on Silver Muse, post-cruise excursion to Denali, etc.  Many visuals and details from our first in these scenic areas!  Live/blog: 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2682584-live-terryohio-silver-muse-alaska-canadarockies-pix’s/

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Interesting article Terry, too bad the Gov will not follow what the majority of the people want..........

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The question for me is - what if you tested positive every day for ever? You are fully vaccinated and have no symptoms, but it is possible have some (hopefully dead) virus cells in you still. Would you be banned from leaving the house every time you had a test? How often can you really get and pass on COVID? 

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Terry.thanks for the factual updates.Cannot believe Royal Caribbean are to sail without everyone vaccinated and even more deplorable charging higher fares and make more money from this appalling business decision.Not for us to cruise again on a ship without 100% Vaccination on board.!

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1 hour ago, worldtraveller99 said:

The question for me is - what if you tested positive every day for ever? You are fully vaccinated and have no symptoms, but it is possible have some (hopefully dead) virus cells in you still. Would you be banned from leaving the house every time you had a test? How often can you really get and pass on COVID? 

 

Great above comments and question from worldtraveller99 about testing and what it mean, how things will work, etc.  Earlier our resident medical expert, J.P., offered some keen insights about testing and key uncertainties.  Maybe he and/or others have added, informed background.  Tell us more as to how ALL of this testing puzzle works!!

 

From the New York Times this morning, they had this headline: “U.S. will spend $3 billion on developing antiviral pills to treat Covid-19 with these highlights: “The U.S. government will invest $3.2 billion to develop antiviral pills for Covid-19, the Department of Health and Human Services announced on Thursday. Such a treatment could keep people out of the hospital and potentially save many lives in the years to come, as the virus becomes a perennial threat despite the distribution of effective vaccines.  A number of other viruses, including influenza, H.I.V. and hepatitis C, can be treated with a simple pill. But despite more than a year of research, no such drug exists for the coronavirus. Operation Warp Speed invested far more money in the development of vaccines than of treatments, a gap that the new program will try to fill.   The new influx of money will speed up the clinical trials of a few promising drug candidates. If all goes well, some of those pills might become available by the end of this year. The Antiviral Program for Pandemics will also support research on entirely new drugs — not just for the coronavirus, but for viruses that could cause future pandemics.”

 

Good news and looking ahead for an uncertain, world-wide, future series of situations?

 

Full story at:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/06/17/world/covid-vaccine-coronavirus-mask

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Barcelona/Med: June 2011, with stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Great visuals with key highlights, tips, etc. Live/blog now at 253,524 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

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From MSN News and the Orlando Sentinel early this afternoon, they had this headline: “CDC lowers COVID-19 alert level for cruises” with these highlights: “As cruise lines gear up to begin sailing from U.S. ports in the coming weeks, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has officially lowered its travel alert level for cruising.   As recently as April, the CDC had placed cruise lines under a Level 4 warning, suggesting it was unsafe for anyone to take a cruise with the COVID-19 pandemic still not under control.   With increased vaccinations in the nation and worldwide, though, the CDC has shifted so that cruises now fall under a Level 3 warning in an update issued Wednesday, and that warning only applies to those who have not been vaccinated.   At level 3, the CDC still recommends those not fully vaccinated to avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises, worldwide.”

 

Here is more detail from this reporting and this new order: " 'Since the virus spreads more easily between people in close quarters aboard ships, the chance of getting COVID-19 on cruise ships is high.' reads the warning. 'It is especially important that people who are not fully vaccinated with an increased risk of severe illness avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises.'  But for those who do travel without the vaccine, the CDC states they should get tested 1-3 days before their trip and 3-5 days after their trip."

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-lowers-covid-19-alert-level-for-cruises/ar-AAL9qv6?ocid=BingNewsSearch

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise from Copenhagen, July 2010, to the top of Europe. Scenic visuals with key tips. Live/blog at 242,026 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

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34 minutes ago, TLCOhio said:

“The U.S. government will invest $3.2 billion to develop antiviral pills for Covid-19, the Department of Health and Human Services announced on Thursday"... Good news and looking ahead...

 

Yes, although as Senator Everett Dirksen said more than 50 years ago, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money." 😉 

 

Just as we will be paying for the cruise industry's massive losses through significantly higher fares in the future, we will be paying for all the government's investments in vaccines, treatments, and financial relief through substantially higher taxes in the future. (I'm not saying these aren't good investments; I'm just noting that our free vaccines don't actually come free, and we will be paying for them for many years to come.)

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14 minutes ago, TLCOhio said:

From MSN News and the Orlando Sentinel early this afternoon, they had this headline: “CDC lowers COVID-19 alert level for cruises” with these highlights: “As cruise lines gear up to begin sailing from U.S. ports in the coming weeks, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has officially lowered its travel alert level for cruising.   As recently as April, the CDC had placed cruise lines under a Level 4 warning, suggesting it was unsafe for anyone to take a cruise with the COVID-19 pandemic still not under control.   With increased vaccinations in the nation and worldwide, though, the CDC has shifted so that cruises now fall under a Level 3 warning in an update issued Wednesday, and that warning only applies to those who have not been vaccinated.   At level 3, the CDC still recommends those not fully vaccinated to avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises, worldwide.”

 

Here is more detail from this reporting and this new order: " 'Since the virus spreads more easily between people in close quarters aboard ships, the chance of getting COVID-19 on cruise ships is high.' reads the warning. 'It is especially important that people who are not fully vaccinated with an increased risk of severe illness avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises.'  But for those who do travel without the vaccine, the CDC states they should get tested 1-3 days before their trip and 3-5 days after their trip."

 

Full story at:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-lowers-covid-19-alert-level-for-cruises/ar-AAL9qv6?ocid=BingNewsSearch

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise from Copenhagen, July 2010, to the top of Europe. Scenic visuals with key tips. Live/blog at 242,026 views.

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

Informative post Terry. Thanks. 

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Terry, we are booked Sydney to Yokohama February 2022. Almost guaranteed not to sail as consensus seems to be no Australian cruises 2021-22. Seaborne canceled their Australia and Asia cruises yesterday apparently. Looking at options and South America is available at that time. Chile seems to have done a great job with their vaccination roll out but I am very doubtful about Peru and Argentina. The Falkland Islands are very restrictive to cruises. No easy options these days!

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6 hours ago, tosteve1 said:

Terry, we are booked Sydney to Yokohama February 2022. Almost guaranteed not to sail as consensus seems to be no Australian cruises 2021-22. Seaborne canceled their Australia and Asia cruises yesterday apparently. Looking at options and South America is available at that time. Chile seems to have done a great job with their vaccination roll out but I am very doubtful about Peru and Argentina. The Falkland Islands are very restrictive to cruises. No easy options these days!

Cunard also has cancelled their 21/22 cruises in Australia.Surely won't be long before SS does also.

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Posted (edited)

Gene Sloan, the main cruise writer on The Points Guy web site and a wealth of cruising knowledge, reports that unvaccinated pax will not have access to all Freedom of the Seas ship activities on its cruises from Miami beginning on July 2--the first Royal Caribbean ship to resume voyages out of a U.S. port.https://thepointsguy.com/news/royal-caribbean-miami-cruise-unvaccinated-restrictions/

 

Among the restrictions that unvaccinated passengers will face:

  • No My Time Dining in the ship’s main dining room — only a fixed dining time in a designated area specifically for unvaccinated passengers.
  • No access to certain venues or ability to participate in some activities.
  • Certain theater performances are restricted to vaccinated passengers only.
  • Masks must be worn at all times when in interior areas of the ship except when actively eating or drinking. In contrast, vaccinated passengers must only  wear masks at certain times in interior areas and may remove them when in bars, lounges, restaurants and entertainment areas or at events designated for vaccinated guests only.

Wow. Welcome to steerage class--2021 style. Let's see our Governor's next move.

 

Also see on the RC CC board:

 

Edited by taxatty
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