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Norwegian Cruise Lines May Go Out of Business


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They may or may not close up, but bankruptcy does not necessarily mean Regent would stop cruising.

The bankruptcy process and the creditors would determine if any refunds were available to those with deposits down.

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As someone pointed out, NCL is not incorporated in the US and is therefore likely outside the jurisdiction of US bankruptcy courts.  Which may mean an entirely different set of rules would apply in a foreign court if bankruptcy were to happen.

 

The biggest concern we have is what amounts are the credit card companies holding back from passing along to NCL companies?  The credit card issuing banks are clearly concerned and will protect themselves from sending too much in advance sales revenue (is there any these days?) to Regent.  But that depends on how much they are holding on to now with so little coming in compared to how much is going to have to be refunded to customers.

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5 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

I doubt credit card companies are holding anything back...that's not their job.

This from the official NCLH form K8 filing with the US Security and Exchange Commission dated may 5, 2020, in part it states"

 

""We have agreements with credit card processors to process the sale of tickets and other services that govern approximately $1.6 billion at December 31, 2019 in advance ticket sales that have been received by the Company relating to future voyages. These agreements allow the credit card processors to require under certain circumstances, including the existence of a material adverse change, excessive chargebacks and other triggering events, that the Company maintain a reserve, which reserve could be funded by the credit card companies withholding or offsetting our credit card receivables, or our posting of cash or other collateral. We have seen an increase in demand from consumers for refunds on their tickets from cancelled voyages and the impacts of COVID-19 and as a result, certain of our credit card processors could require us to maintain a reserve or post collateral in accordance with the terms of our agreements with them. Because of COVID-19, we have been in discussions with our credit card processors regarding the nature of collateral, if any, relating to these agreements, and if we were required to post collateral or otherwise maintain a reserve, our financial position and liquidity could be materially impacted.""

 

Source

 

I personally have no comments to what exactly Regent will do for refunds or deposits. I assume the 1.6 Billion amount is for all 3 products.

 

J

Edited by JMARINER
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I read it and will post it below. I looks like NCLH and their banks are in discussion about what, if any, collateral would be desired to secure future cruise fares processed and passed to NCLH. Up to this point, nothing has been held bank. NCLH triggered a possible future event by their disclosures required prior to raising capital.

 

" The Company also has agreements with its credit card processors that govern approximately $1.6 billion at December 31, 2019 in advance ticket sales that have been received by the Company relating to future voyages. These agreements allow the credit card processors to require under certain circumstances, including the existence of a material adverse change, excessive chargebacks and other triggering events, that the Company maintain a reserve which could be satisfied by posting collateral. The Company is in discussions regarding the nature of collateral, if any, relating to these agreements."

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A lot of news on the Financial pages- Regent and Oceania may be packaged to generate cash for the Corporate operations. Del Rio's name comes up on the net for a deal. This could be false and someone just guessing on the moves on the board!

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The first post on this subject was about 11 hours ago as I write this, per “Carol from California”s comment above. Where are the ubiquitous Regent cheerleaders? The ones who reveled in shooting down anyone and everyone who early-on questioned Regent/NCL’s ability to survive this world-altering event? The ones who dismissed any ideas that Regent might be in financial trouble...usually followed by Wall Street “insider knowledge”, predictions or even speculation on how Regent was above it all since they had no ships with reported Covid cases. 
As for the original question regarding credit card refunds, it all depends on the fine print. Both cards we used give us SIXTY days to resolve a dispute. So for those who made any payment toward a cruise within the last 60 days, you might get help from your card company. But for others, including me, who paid in full last December for an April cruise that was cancelled in March, we are in “wait and see” mode. Another concern is Travel Insurance...if you had any. Will they be the next bankruptcy? What a mess. 

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10 minutes ago, gr'aunt said:

The first post on this subject was about 11 hours ago as I write this, per “Carol from California”s comment above. Where are the ubiquitous Regent cheerleaders? The ones who reveled in shooting down anyone and everyone who early-on questioned Regent/NCL’s ability to survive this world-altering event? The ones who dismissed any ideas that Regent might be in financial trouble...usually followed by Wall Street “insider knowledge”, predictions or even speculation on how Regent was above it all since they had no ships with reported Covid cases. 
As for the original question regarding credit card refunds, it all depends on the fine print. Both cards we used give us SIXTY days to resolve a dispute. So for those who made any payment toward a cruise within the last 60 days, you might get help from your card company. But for others, including me, who paid in full last December for an April cruise that was cancelled in March, we are in “wait and see” mode. Another concern is Travel Insurance...if you had any. Will they be the next bankruptcy? What a mess. 

 

Facts - Required SEC disclosures when a stock issuance is planned - NCLH raising $2B+. Opinion - I look good in a cheerleader outfit - don't hate.

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1 minute ago, Pcardad said:

 

Facts - Required SEC disclosures when a stock issuance is planned - NCLH raising $2B+. Opinion - I look good in a cheerleader outfit - don't hate.

When you are legitimately wearing the NCL/Regent CEO’s “outfit”, I’ll consider your opinion. Until then, my questioning is as valid as your opinion. The current worldwide economic free-for-all has no comparison. No hate. Just truth. 

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We all have to support Regent at this time of great uncertainty. After all many of us have a lot of money tied up rith them in the form of 'future cruise credits'

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6 hours ago, Pcardad said:

 

Facts - Required SEC disclosures when a stock issuance is planned - NCLH raising $2B+. Opinion - I look good in a cheerleader outfit - don't hate.

Hate?  Where is there any hatred being spewed? As an aside....I am still wondering if any of the crew fund $$$ has been dispersed to the onboard staff who are so terribly stuck. If not now...when? I would imagine there is a lot of money sitting in the pot that was intended for emergencies. Does anyone definitely know from personal communications?

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My post was obviously humor...i am a 45 year old guy...i don't wear cheerleading outfits. Senses of humor are on special this week in aisle 4.

 

Don't hate is an expression used by my generation in conjunction with a comment that is obviously humor....especially when the other person isn't playing along.

 

The crew fund is kept off the books and typical used to help sponsor the 2 week long themed parties in the crew mess. It might have been used for other purposes in the past but pretty sure thats what its  urgent usage is. Next time you are onboard talk to the GM and you will get the scoop.

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38 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

My post was obviously humor...i am a 45 year old guy...i don't wear cheerleading outfits. Senses of humor are on special this week in aisle 4.

 

Don't hate is an expression used by my generation in conjunction with a comment that is obviously humor....especially when the other person isn't playing along.

 

The crew fund is kept off the books and typical used to help sponsor the 2 week long themed parties in the crew mess. It might have been used for other purposes in the past but pretty sure thats what its  urgent usage is. Next time you are onboard talk to the GM and you will get the scoop.

This isn't really an answer and it's OK to not know the answer. Nobody will be asking any GMs on board any time soon and I did inquire about it some years ago and yes...parties, bicycles, entertainments and definitely crew member emergencies is what we were told. This situation seems to be what might be considered an emergency so I was curious.    I think I'll stick the "hate" thing in with...awesome!, good job! , like, no problem and " me too"   for a little more cutesy humor.

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54 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

My post was obviously humor...i am a 45 year old guy...i don't wear cheerleading outfits. Senses of humor are on special this week in aisle 4.

 

Don't hate is an expression used by my generation in conjunction with a comment that is obviously humor....especially when the other person isn't playing along.

 

The crew fund is kept off the books and typical used to help sponsor the 2 week long themed parties in the crew mess. It might have been used for other purposes in the past but pretty sure thats what its  urgent usage is. Next time you are onboard talk to the GM and you will get the scoop.

 

Please keep up the humor and factual information.  It is so helpful to us.  I am glad that the Crew Fund is not on the table.  This was donated by passengers for the crew.  In terms of talking to a G.M., I am in contact with a couple of them but would not bother them at this particular time.  Instead, I have sent emails of support to many people that work for Regent (simple emails like “sending you a virtual hug” or “thinking of you........”)

 

Do you have any idea how long it could take for the “deal” to be completed?  in my opinion, the sooner the better as there are people cancelling and/or contacting their credit card companies ........ things that hurt rather than help Regent.

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9 hours ago, Pcardad said:

 

Facts - Required SEC disclosures when a stock issuance is planned - NCLH raising $2B+. Opinion - I look good in a cheerleader outfit - don't hate.

It takes 2 to make a deal. Just because you plan doesn't mean it happens. And if it happens, at what price? Carnival had to pay 11.5% interest to get their funding. Their bonds were rated as junk bonds and they had to put up 2 ships for collateral. I hope Regent survives but I don't feel that I have an obligation to help them. I paid a lot of money for a product that they can't provide. I should get my money back as I have requested. Everyone needs to make their own decisions based on "facts" and advice from trusted advisors. I wouldn't label people on this chat board who have a vested interest in Regent as good advisors since their sources are Regent employees/executives who have an obligation to spin this the best that they can. 

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The clause in the prospectus says they need $1B by June 30 to get the $400B from the PE firm....they raised $675B yesterday and the rest will follow in short order. They will be sitting on $3B+ in cash in a month.

 

The real problem is that (again, my opinion but generally accepted as truth) if we don't get this virus locked down in 18 months we are going to have much bigger problems than will Regent send my deposit back. People who are hungry and scared and broke can only listen to their children cry for so long before they act. I think that soone or later, and well before there is a vaccine, the government will re-open the economy because they will realize that less people will be harmed by that than by keeping the economy shutdown.

 

The only Regent people I contact are those with whom I have a professional relationship and those with whom I am friends (those are easily identifiable as they reach out to me as well).

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Just curious - some quiet afternoons I go back a few hundred pages and read 'old stories from CC' - can be interesting reading what seemed topical then, and of course, stories of places visited don't really get that old.

 

That said, at least at some points back then seemed to be a lot of very energetic discussion regarding whether private equity ownership was desirable at a cruise line.  So far, not a lot of talk about L Catterton and their new stake. Everyone just waiting to see?  It truly is early days.   In general, I don't think PE firms take a passive investor stance - but I wonder what Catterton will shake up at NCLH.

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Hey, NCLH's island is also collateral (that item just somehow tickled my fancy - I guess I always wanted my own island).  That said, a lot of appetite for junk bonds with high yields out there. But, there's always a way for some to profit either in the rise, or fall, of industries.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-05/indonesian-borrowers-bring-dollar-bond-deals-to-boost-buffers

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