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HAL and Seabourn are losing avid cruisers because of refunds


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13 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

I have not seen this mentioned, but does anyone know whether the cruise lines have loss of business insurance which would cover part or all of these refunds?  Also, isn't a cruise line required to keep deposits into a "trust-type" account  until actually earned?  We attorneys are certainly required to do so.


I doubt they have loss of business insurance, but don’t know about the Trust account for deposits.

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Remember how many folks think of HAL crew members as our "family"?

"Welcome Home" and all that?

I hope they are using our deposit money to pay off the contracts of the hardworking crew before they refund anything to me.

I will be more upset if I hear they are stiffing the crew, most of which probably have thinner economic safety nets in their home countries than we are used to here.

While I can't speak for others the money I spend on cruising is 100% discretionary and if i never seen a dime my lifestyle won't change at all.

Others may not be so fortunate regarding money, but this situation is unprecedented and I hope that they can take care of the current employees first.

The employees are the most important part of the company and if they bail, we won't have to worry about cruising OR seeing our refunds.

Could HAL do things better - probably. But I spend my days looking at old cruise pictures and thinking about where I want to go on my first cruise after the restart.

I am optimistic that we will start to see some cruises this November.


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18 hours ago, kaiiak said:

Of course, I was just waiting for someone to reply with a snarky remark about money... didn’t take long. 🙄 Thanks Dave Ramsey! Luckily I’m still working & being paid, but I do have compassion for folks who are not & need their money back ASAP. I’m guessing some retirees are also stressed about $ since the stock market tanked. 

Just so you know - I lost my job due to COVID.   I'm also in that age group where I am freaking about my retirement funds in the market.  But, I would never count on money I have already pledged for something to be given back if I need it.  What I spoke has been spoken here before when people had "run of the mill" cancellations.   I was surprised none of the usual HAL rah-rah people hadn't mentioned it already.  Perhaps they are stuck in the refund line with everyone else.

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On 5/5/2020 at 2:02 PM, Krazy Kruizers said:

HAL may not have the money.  

 

Look at what is happening at NCL.

The financial press says that Carnival Corp owes its customers north of $4 Billion in refunds.  

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1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

And, perhaps you missed it...as @Krazy Kruizers may have as well...Carnival Corp has been raising about double that in cash.

If reports are correct they have the cash. They are just not refunding anyone—— 0 refunds for April. 

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On 5/8/2020 at 1:21 PM, LMaxwell said:

My solution is for them to communicate in a fair manner with paying customers and that's "unrealistic"?  I appreciate your opinion but completely disagree with it. Fairness implies both sides would or could treat each other in a similar manner with similar results and that's just not the case here.  I don't know how things got so sideways where people don't think they are owed being "dealt with straight". 

It my guess is that HAL is dealing with 50,000 to 100,000 passenger refunds, maybe more. There is no way to provide individual communications or attention for each passenger. Passenger's will have to wait their turn and complaining is not going to allow anyone to cut the line.

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1 hour ago, rhblake said:

It my guess is that HAL is dealing with 50,000 to 100,000 passenger refunds, maybe more. There is no way to provide individual communications or attention for each passenger. Passenger's will have to wait their turn and complaining is not going to allow anyone to cut the line.

 

Gee, when the cruise lines were trying to sell me cruises, I got snail-mail brochures, seemingly targeted letters addressing me by name, and voluminous amounts of emails offering a myriad of promotions. Obviously, the cruise lines have a sophisticated internal communication system--so, why can't it be used to communicate to customers, even in a form letter/email style, as to the status of refunds? 

 

It is all about "managing expectations", and in my opinion, a better job of that, using existing tools, could be done.    

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12 hours ago, dave34 said:

If reports are correct they have the cash. They are just not refunding anyone—— 0 refunds for April. 

 

What is your source for your contention that HAL made "0" refunds in April?

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Just now, Tampa Girl said:

 

What is your source for your contention that HAL made "0" refunds in April?

The rep. told me on the phone when she told me my refund could be 90- 180 days from cruise date. 

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2 minutes ago, dave34 said:

The rep. told me on the phone when she told me my refund could be 90- 180 days from cruise date. 

 

One rep's statement, based on her questionable knowledge, is a weak reed on which to base your assumption that no one received any refunds in April.  The reps are being told what to say.  I doubt that they have first hand knowledge of the ship's accounting practices.  

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2 hours ago, rhblake said:

It my guess is that HAL is dealing with 50,000 to 100,000 passenger refunds, maybe more. There is no way to provide individual communications or attention for each passenger. Passenger's will have to wait their turn and complaining is not going to allow anyone to cut the line.

Another one who is completely missing the point.  They aren't communicating well at all.  No one has asked for personalized messages or to jump the queue.  They are asking to be told updates in an honest manner.  The fact that so many people will tolerate corporate misgivings in this way is exactly the reason why they do it; people won't stand up for themselves anymore. 

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8 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

One rep's statement, based on her questionable knowledge, is a weak reed on which to base your assumption that no one received any refunds in April.  The reps are being told what to say.  I doubt that they have first hand knowledge of the ship's accounting practices.  

Can you find anyone that had their cruise cancel by HAL that has got a refund? Unbelievable to me how for people will go to defend HAL. This was to be my first HAL cruise I’m sorry I will never get to see hoe special HAL is. 

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Let’s face it, CCL don’t have the money to refund us because they spent our money to pay bills.  HAL cheerleaders can bash me all they want, but most of us have not seen our money.  

 

Let me also say, Disney Cruise line have been refunding canceled cruises within 2 weeks.  No complaints whatsoever.  

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On 5/8/2020 at 1:09 PM, iancal said:

I really have to wonder if it were not a cruise line in a feel good industry if people would be willing to wait so long for a refund with little, no, or conflicting communication from the  vendor or have sympathy for the cruise line because they need the money from the cruise they cancelled to pay for their business expenses and hence can give no commitment that I will be paid in 3, 4, even 5 or six months.

 

Would it be different if was an appliance manufacturer, and airline, a automobile manufacturer, an IT company?

Or how about earned commissions from Marriott ? And Carey Limousine ?  It's been five months, and they're past due.  Payment dates have been made, and not kept. The travel business...not just the HAL...has been crippled.   But it will be back.  Like any business, the customers will bring it back. That is, the customers who believe in the product. 

 

Edited by Boatdrill
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“ Brussel “ made it clear yesterday that travellers who booked a flight or other vacation are entitled to a refund. They don’t have to accept a voucher , which FCC essentially is. Furthermore, in the Netherlands, HAL is a member of a TA solidarity fund called SGR. On every booking made at a member TA there’s a small surcharge that goes in the fund. If a member goes bankrupt or cannot live up to its financial responsibilities towards its customers, the fund will reimburse the customer. 
Of course I hope it will never happen , but if it does I’m glad to have booked with HAL in Rotterdam.

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6 hours ago, Boatdrill said:

Or how about earned commissions from Marriott ? And Carey Limousine ?  It's been five months, and they're past due.  Payment dates have been made, and not kept. The travel business...not just the HAL...has been crippled.   But it will be back.  Like any business, the customers will bring it back. That is, the customers who believe in the product. 

 

 

Well this customer is a former customer and will never be a future customer.

 

The cruise lines did not have a rainy day fund, but they were lavishly paying the CEO et all. Part of this corporate behavior was brought on by me and, more so, people who repeatedly booked cruises and they took us for granted.

 

Well times are a changing and I will not be booking another cruise for the foreseeable future. Too many other vacation options out there.

 

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On 5/9/2020 at 12:23 PM, The-Inside-Cabin said:

Remember how many folks think of HAL crew members as our "family"?

"Welcome Home" and all that?

I hope they are using our deposit money to pay off the contracts of the hardworking crew before they refund anything to me.

I will be more upset if I hear they are stiffing the crew, most of which probably have thinner economic safety nets in their home countries than we are used to here.

While I can't speak for others the money I spend on cruising is 100% discretionary and if i never seen a dime my lifestyle won't change at all.

Others may not be so fortunate regarding money, but this situation is unprecedented and I hope that they can take care of the current employees first.

The employees are the most important part of the company and if they bail, we won't have to worry about cruising OR seeing our refunds.

Could HAL do things better - probably. But I spend my days looking at old cruise pictures and thinking about where I want to go on my first cruise after the restart.

I am optimistic that we will start to see some cruises this November.


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I agree 100%

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3 hours ago, Doubt It said:

 

Well this customer is a former customer and will never be a future customer.

 

The cruise lines did not have a rainy day fund, but they were lavishly paying the CEO et all. Part of this corporate behavior was brought on by me and, more so, people who repeatedly booked cruises and they took us for granted.

 

Well times are a changing and I will not be booking another cruise for the foreseeable future. Too many other vacation options out there.

 

Please identify what cruise line has a rainy day fund equal to 6 months of total revenues, and expenses, with no new revenue coming in, but expenses continuing during that 6 months? Any type of business?

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